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286821 Posts in 27568 Topics by 3790 Members
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1  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Do calvinists know for sure they are saved? on: June 23, 2003, 12:43:04 PM
Faith is a gift from God

Faith is what He asks of us.  I place my faith in Him, His Son, and His Holy Spirit.
Photogrunt,

yes “Faith is a gift from God” Not something which man conjured.

Our faith substantiates all that is in Christ (the way, the truth and the life). We appropriate righteousness, holiness and redemption by faith in Jesus.  Asaph

The Holy Spirit sent by Jesus, stirs us to faith, instills it where it never once dwelled, in order to lead us to God.

But none of this happens in us apart from our faith in Him. Asaph.

Yes, and the Bible teaches, “Faith is a gift from God.”

Our security is in Christ alone, not in unconditional election or in any other of the tenets of the tulip.   Asaph

True, Calvinists do not put their trust in total depravity to be saved but Christ from whom regeneration flows, the ugly truth about ourselves is told, and the gift of faith comes.

"No man comes to me except the father draw him" (Jhn 6:44),
“ Truth that is sweet for God delivered me when I was his enemy.  An Enemy has no love for his opponent, whatsoever.

This is why 1Cor 2:14 states; "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."  

Yes, we were dead, corpses, open graves, dead men’s bones, vipers, the wicked, where is love,where is goodness, where is faith in these biblical pictures of what we once were.  

Please note; All of those who believe they somehow received Grace by a faith they conjured up from within themselves, and are unable to recognize that it was God working in them to will and to do of HIS good pleasure, believe they can also lose it by sinning, go figure....
Petro

So true.

You have never told god that, while you are grateful for the means and opportunities of grace that He gave you, you realize that you have to thank, not Him, But yourself for the fact that you responded to His call. Your heart revolts at the very thought of talking to God in such terms. In fact, you thank Him no less sincerely for the gift of faith and repentance than for the gift of a Christ to trust and turn to.
Drake

The power of a word spoken in admiration for God’s mercy.

I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.

Certainly Paul is not calling us to become unified with the heretic teachings he himself attacks. Did not Paul divide himself from the heretical teachers who sought to undermine grace and admonish the churches to mark those who bring teachings contrary to grace?  Is he not crying out for unity in the truth about God’s grace?

This is why I've become a 'free agent. I believe once you aligned yourself with some man’s teaching of the word you close yourself off to God’s teaching.
Tawhano

Is this your new teaching?

It is true that neither school is correct, and both are fundamentally flawed. It's time to say throw both out and let Scripture be the sole authority.
Sower

Do not many cults push this notion?

God does not elect some to heaven and others to hell.  Christ's atonement cannot be limited since He is the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world (John 1:29).  Otherwise Scripture would not declare "God now commandeth ALL MEN EVERYWHERE to repent" (Acts 17:30). Neither does a true child of God lose his or her salvation.
Sower

Is this not a theological position?

My observation:
What did Jesus mean by this:
John 6
45  It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Asaph

Are you a Universalist?

What does it mean to make our calling and election sure?
Asaph

It means to believe in Salvation by grace, to gather your assurance from the master, to lay down your self righteousness.

(1)   God commands all men
(2) God commands all men everywhere
(3) God is not willing that any should perish
(4) but that all should come to repentance
(5) God would have all men be saved
(6) And come to a knowledge of the truth
(7) God says "Ho, every one that thirsteth, Come"
(Cool God says "Look unto me all the ends of the earth and be saved"
(9) God says "Whosoever will let him take of the water of life freely"

This division has done great harm by maintaining a rift over two schools of theology rather than unity of the spirit in the bond of peace.
On what grounds can any man controvert this invitation with the false doctrine of limited atonement?
Sower

Interesting, how you condemn the controversey, both sides, call for unity, then argue vehemently for the "Free will" side?  Also, why did you leave out the verses that show God’s saving power here?  Is it that much of a struggle to believe that “Many are called (your list above) but few are chosen (the list you omitted)?

I've heard calvinists believe in man's responcability and God's sovereignty at the same time.  Oh, ok that makes sense and still keeps in line with Calvinism.
When one is a biblicist then he sees that there are both things in there yet they don't seem to totally fit together.
Saved-4-Ever

So now that you are eternally secure will you abandon living righteously because they don’t fit together?


1 Timothy 1
18 This charge I commit to you, my child Timothy, according to the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you might war the good warfare,
19 Holding faith and a good conscience, concerning which some, thrusting these away, have become shipwrecked regarding the faith;”  

Faith in the grace of God, Salvation of the Lord, not by works, nor him that wills, but God, perhaps, maybe?

What came first, the chicken or the egg? What came first, election or faith in Jesus? My answer is- Jesus is God's elect, so election came first, because Jesus was before the foundation of the world. We are elect in Him. Only faith can affirm this. In Adam all die. Because of Adam's sin we in him are sinners; we took on Adams lostness. But in Christ we are made righteous, we take on His election and all that it entails: righteousness peace and joy in the Holy Ghost!
Asaph

Was Jesus the elect Son prior to the creation of the world, yes. Psalm 2 “Ask of me and I will give you the heathen for an inheritance”

It is amazing to me that those who promote God’s grace to the hilt, are attacked by their own brethren.  But that is no new thing.  Paul was assaulted by those with different views of human nature and God’s saving power. The chief problem Paul’s epistles address are those who claimed power in their salvation shifting it from Grace to human effort.  From the Gnostic and Hebraic legalists in Collosians to the bewitched Judaizing ceremonialists in Galations, Romans, Hebrews and many others.  All were seeking to claim some credit, some goodness in themselves, some proud theory to elevate themselves over the rest of us.  Whether it was the proud earthly wisdom of the greeks or the self righteouness of the legalizers. Paul fought valiantly to extinguish the maddening flames of man’s self deifying.  Some things never change.  Sadly.  But still this truth remains, many here with whom I disagree, are my brothers in Christ, beloved in Jesus.  And you can teach me much.  And my eyes are attentive to many truths you are writing about.
2  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Do calvinists know for sure they are saved? on: June 21, 2003, 11:15:14 AM
But how does a calvinist no for sure he is one of the elect? How does he know that he will never fall away?


A Calvinist does not put his faith in the logistics of election.  He does believe that God has chosen some to salvation and called many.  A Calvinist knows he is saved by the faith he has in Jesus Christ.  A heartfelt knowledge a convicting certainty that his sins are forgiven and he is no longer a child of satan but of God.  He does not look at his sinful life, nor does he base his salvation's security in his sanctification or good works.  His assurance comes from faith in the good shephard in whom he now loves.  The sheep hear His voice and they know Him for He gives unto them eternal life and they shall never perish.  Good works can make the conscience rest confidently that it is doing good in the strength of Jesus Christ.  But no good work nor the process of election are the grounds of a calvinist's security.  The Holy Spirit witnesses with the spirit of the child of God that he is saved.  The reason is the child's hero, the Lord Jesus Christ, embraced by living faith through grace.
3  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Do calvinists know for sure they are saved? on: June 19, 2003, 12:50:56 PM
The very point of Calvinism is eternal security.  It is the Arminian or "free willer" who risks floundering.  Arminians could conceivably forfeit their salvation as a result of their own will.  Calvinism states that the mind, will, and affections are all held under the loving and irresistable grace of God.  Secondly, the acronym TULIP is not Calvinism.  It is a defense of grace against Arminianism by godly reformed men of the sixteenth century, precisely for the reason of keeping christian assurance and security of salvation in tact because Arminians attacked it.  Calvinism is defined by John Calvin who taught of general and special revelation, law and grace, the providence of God, the Fatherhood of God etc...Those who proudly believe that Jesus plus their depraved volition or will are responsible for their salvation are the most insecure christians precisely because they proudly hold salvation in the power of their own hands, and have not submitted wholly to grace.
4  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Religion vs. Regeneration on: June 19, 2003, 12:30:49 PM
True and untrue.  Religion as defined in the New Testament incorporates the behavior of the regenerate man as well as all his church duties.  If you mean godless formalism, high church liturgy bereft of saving grace I can see your point.  But I am a very religious man, regenerate and affectionate toward my father in heaven in Jesus. Correction; I am not religious enough for I have failed to love my neighbhor as myself ie widows ans orphans and all others. The former is Paul's definition of Religion.
5  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Evangelism on: June 19, 2003, 12:03:04 PM
No.  There is no hope in the act of prosyletizing in and of it self in the modern world.  Man is just as much antogonized by the word of God today as he ever was.  He is a hopeless wanderer rationalizing his autonomy from God.  But with God all things are possible.  And God still sends His Holy Spirit to bring the truth home to His chosen.  Many are called but few are chosen.  God is rich in mercy where the modern world is rich in selfishness.  And remember even when we were His enemies, Christ died for us.
6  Theology / Apologetics / Re:Tony Campolo/Deceiver of the Brethern on: June 19, 2003, 11:45:57 AM
Campolo is a gregarious devil.  An opulent antichrister with tremendous inroads into evangelicaldom. He is a marxian radical who has married liberalism with our Hero Jesus.  If you are enchanted by the notion of a serpent whispering enticing thoughts into your ear, by all means, let him entertain you.
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