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286826 Posts in 27568 Topics by 3790 Members
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46  Theology / General Theology / Re:Calvinism--TULIP on: April 15, 2003, 09:32:15 PM
Quote
True or False

“This effectual call is of God’s free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man; who is altogether passive therein, until, being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit, he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it.” The Westminster Confession of Faith

I affirm the Westminster Confession of Faith as an accurate representation of Biblical truth.

Quote
If true, is this grace irresistable? Does the word "until" mean that once he is quickened he is no longer passive? And does this mean that renewal comes before faith?

Yes, the grace cannot be effectually resisted.   Once a man is regenerated, he is no longer dead in sin (Eph 2:1) and can respond in faith, the gift of God (Eph 2:Cool.  Renewal (regeneration) must necessarily come before faith, for dead men cannot choose to become alive.  They must be made alive by God.

Quote
True or False

Mark 16:16
“The one having believed (pisteusas) and having been baptized will be saved (sōthēsetai); but the one not having believed (apistēsas) will be condemned to eternal death (katakpithēsetai)…o` pisteu,saj kai. baptisqei.j swqh,setai( o` de. avpisth,saj katakriqh,setaiĹ”

Time elements cannot be denied. Tense affirms both time and kind of action.

I don't know if you are familiar with Greek aorist participles, but that statement would indicate to the contrary.    It is all about aspect, or time of action.  And the aorist participles there are adjectival participles ( as opposed to adverbial) and do not have any time significance at all.

Quote
Further, pisteusas (will be saved) and apistēsas (not having believed) are words of the same tense, etc. Both are aorists, both are active; in both the person did something, one to be saved, and the other to be lost. Whether in belief or unbelief, the intellect, volition, and will are engaged. Likewise, the results of these attitudes affect the total person and destiny itself. The results of engagement are sōthēsetai (will be saved) and katakpithēsetai (will be condemned to eternal death). These terms are of exactly the same grammatical construction. Both are verbs in the active voice; both are revelatory of destiny based on the action of the person. Both reveal the response of God based on the action of the person. God never saved the believer apart from his action anymore than He damned the unbeliever apart from his action of unbelief. God saves because of action in which the will is engaged; God condemns eternally because of action in which the will is engaged. Thus, neither the saved nor the lost were irresistibly consigned to their state from eternity by God.

That last statement does not follow.  It is an act of the will.  But all our wills are in bondage to God--they cannot receive the things of God (1 Cor 2:14).  So God must regenerate them first, so that they will respond with the will.  And those that exercise that will are saved.  If they can do it in and of themselves, then salvation is not wholly a work of God, but is partially a work of man, and man has something to brag about.

Quote
Both classes, the saved and lost, are thus because of the manner in which they responded to God.

Yes, but without the regenerating, effectual grace of the Holy Spirit, no one would respond positively to the gospel.  All would reject.  Thus God regenerates the elect.  

Joel
 
47  Theology / General Theology / Re:Calvinism--TULIP on: April 14, 2003, 01:53:47 PM
Quote
True or False

“We do not believe in order to be born again; we are born again that we may believe.” R. C. Sproul

True.  You can't make yourself be born again.  It is an act of God, thereby generating belief in your heart. (John 1:13)

Quote
True or False

“A man is not regenerated because he has first believed in Christ, but he believes in Christ because he has been regenerated.” Arthur W. Pink

True.  Regeneration must necessarily precede faith.  Men are dead in sin, and dead men cannot choose to become alive.  It requires the divine act of regeneration to produce faith. (Eph 2:1-10)

Quote
True or False

“A man is not saved because he believes in Christ; he believes in Christ because he is saved.” Loraine Boettner

I'm not so sure about this one.  I get his basic point, but I disagree with how he says that.  I would say more that yes, you are saved by faith alone, but that faith is the gift of God, thus you must first have the divine initiative in salvation in order to have that faith.

Here is TULIP:

Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Perserverance of the Saints

I'll be back with more.


Joel

48  Theology / General Theology / Calvinism--TULIP on: April 12, 2003, 10:22:37 PM
Well, since the site got wiped clear of all the intense debating on this issue, we might as well start it up again.  My proposal is to go through each of the Letters of TULIP one at a time (with some overlap obviously), debating and discussing them.
Any interested?   Grin

Joel
49  Welcome / About You! / Re:Introduce Yourself? on: April 12, 2003, 10:13:16 PM
I am joelkaki.  I had been around for quite a while before the crash, and I'm glad the site is back up.  (*Starts back at post #1 after 1000+*)

Joel
Pages: 1 2 3 [4]



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