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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
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Author Topic: Faith Alone or Faith and Righteous Living?  (Read 3894 times)
ollie
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« on: August 11, 2003, 07:29:33 PM »

The homosexuals in the episcopal church that want to be bishops in that organization appear to believe in Jesus Christ?
Are they saved? Is their faith alone enough for righteousness to salvation? Or is righteous living in faith necessary?


 Romans 10:3.  For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
 4.  For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
 5.  For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
 6.  But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
 7.  Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
 8.  But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
 9.  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
 10.  For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 11.  For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


 1 Peter 21.  For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ als:o suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
 22.  Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
 23.  Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
 24.  Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.



 
« Last Edit: August 11, 2003, 07:53:30 PM by ollie » Logged

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John the Baptist
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« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2003, 11:55:11 PM »

Hi,
it sounds like a NO BRAINER question, huh?   Cry Cry
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Petro
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« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2003, 02:38:26 AM »

Anyone who pratices sin as a matter of everyday living, whether it be homosexuality or lieing, stealing, coveting, even one who lusts after a woman by watching sexy movies, magazines or other media, reveals himself to be someone other who he claims to be.

The Apostle writes this;

1 Cor 6
9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11  And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Note the words of verse 11, "SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU", they use to practice these things but,  not after being washed, sanctified, justified in the name of Jesus by the Spirit of God.

So, any active sinner involved in the practice of sinning regularly denys the very word of God, whom he claims to believe in , this plain frfom this scripture, we all practiced sin without regard to Gods commandments, but the willingness to practice contrary to Gods commends shows that we may not be whom, we claim to be.

As for faith in Jesus, anyone can claim to believe in Him, the proof of whether one does or does not  keep Jesus words, if one can't keep the commandments of God ..neither..will he keep the commandments of Jesus.

Petro
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Ralph
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« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2003, 01:52:57 PM »

  Ollie: Scripture teaches that we are saved thru faith (Eph.2:Cool alone. It also teaches that faith which is without works or righteousness is not a real faith (James). Scripture never teaches that our works or our personal goodness save
us. They DO teach that if those things do not accompany faith then the faith is not genuine.
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ollie
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« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2003, 04:13:32 PM »

Hi,
it sounds like a NO BRAINER question, huh?   Cry Cry
Sure does and is.

There are those with ears that cannot hear and eyes that do not see. Once in awhile the no brainer has to be forthwith again praying that some may see and hear at last the light that is Jesus Christ.

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ollie
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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2003, 04:16:07 PM »

Anyone who pratices sin as a matter of everyday living, whether it be homosexuality or lieing, stealing, coveting, even one who lusts after a woman by watching sexy movies, magazines or other media, reveals himself to be someone other who he claims to be.

The Apostle writes this;

1 Cor 6
9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11  And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Note the words of verse 11, "SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU", they use to practice these things but,  not after being washed, sanctified, justified in the name of Jesus by the Spirit of God.

So, any active sinner involved in the practice of sinning regularly denys the very word of God, whom he claims to believe in , this plain frfom this scripture, we all practiced sin without regard to Gods commandments, but the willingness to practice contrary to Gods commends shows that we may not be whom, we claim to be.

As for faith in Jesus, anyone can claim to believe in Him, the proof of whether one does or does not  keep Jesus words, if one can't keep the commandments of God ..neither..will he keep the commandments of Jesus.

Petro
Are you saying one must not only believe, but also do?
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ollie
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« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2003, 04:19:45 PM »

 Ollie: Scripture teaches that we are saved thru faith (Eph.2:Cool alone. It also teaches that faith which is without works or righteousness is not a real faith (James). Scripture never teaches that our works or our personal goodness save
us. They DO teach that if those things do not accompany faith then the faith is not genuine.
Revelation 22:14.  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
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Petro
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« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2003, 07:18:20 PM »

Anyone who pratices sin as a matter of everyday living, whether it be homosexuality or lieing, stealing, coveting, even one who lusts after a woman by watching sexy movies, magazines or other media, reveals himself to be someone other who he claims to be.

The Apostle writes this;

1 Cor 6
9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11  And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Note the words of verse 11, "SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU", they use to practice these things but,  not after being washed, sanctified, justified in the name of Jesus by the Spirit of God.

So, any active sinner involved in the practice of sinning regularly denys the very word of God, whom he claims to believe in , this plain frfom this scripture, we all practiced sin without regard to Gods commandments, but the willingness to practice contrary to Gods commends shows that we may not be whom, we claim to be.

As for faith in Jesus, anyone can claim to believe in Him, the proof of whether one does or does not  keep Jesus words, if one can't keep the commandments of God ..neither..will he keep the commandments of Jesus.

Petro
Are you saying one must not only believe, but also do?

ollie,

The answer if found in this verse;

Jhn 6
29  This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

One must believe God, before he can do the work of God.

Once a person does this, the works he performs for God, after this point, will be judged at the Judgement seat of Christ, and whether he because of his works suffers loss or not, he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Cor 3:15)

This is not the same thing you espouse.

Even in your last answer to Ralph, you insinuate that by the keeping of Gods commandments, one earns the right to the Tree of Life, while this is true, the keeping of them, which is the true Law of Liberty all believers live unto,  was what brought the person to Jesus, who is the end of the law to everyone who believes (Rom 19:4)

And here at Rev 22:14, it is speaking of the commandments of God, not of Christ.

You were real sly to make this point over on the other thread, where you said, "Not the Commandments of God"; but here you claim the commandments of God, must be observed, to have access to the Tree of Life.

Which is it, ollie..??

Petro


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Brother Love
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« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2003, 04:13:28 AM »

"FAITH ALONE IN CHRIST ALONE"

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Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2003, 01:27:31 PM »

"FAITH ALONE IN CHRIST ALONE"

Brother Love Smiley

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Galatians 4:16   Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
Petro
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« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2003, 09:49:13 PM »

"FAITH ALONE IN CHRIST ALONE"

Brother Love Smiley

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I agree, and believe even Ollie, does too!

Petro
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Mr. 5020
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« Reply #11 on: August 14, 2003, 10:22:01 PM »

I am with Petro, Bro. Love, and A4C on this one, but the question was about habitual sin.  You are saved through faith and faith alone.

Quote
1 John 3:6
Whoever abides in him does not [habitually] sin.  Whoever [habitually] sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.
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Petro
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« Reply #12 on: August 15, 2003, 01:12:37 AM »

I am with Petro, Bro. Love, and A4C on this one, but the question was about habitual sin.  You are saved through faith and faith alone.

Quote
1 John 3:6
Whoever abides in him does not [habitually] sin.  Whoever [habitually] sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.


Amen,

1 Cor 6
9  Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10  Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
11  And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Note the word were, this means used to be;

This cannot mean one is a practicing sinner, involved in any of the above sins listed, which identifying the unrighteous of Vs  9.

God loves sinners, but to say he loves practicing sinners is stretching the truth.

Those who live lives in rebellion to God regardless of what they say, do not know God and by their living in sin of disobedience show they hate God, this is plain from His own words;

Ex 20
5  .................for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6  And showing mercy unto thousands of them that ove me, and keep my commandments.


Deut 7
9  Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
10  And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.

God Bless,

Petro
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John the Baptist
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« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2003, 09:54:30 PM »

Hi,
it sounds like a NO BRAINER question, huh?   Cry Cry
Sure does and is.

There are those with ears that cannot hear and eyes that do not see. Once in awhile the no brainer has to be forthwith again praying that some may see and hear at last the light that is Jesus Christ.



Hi Ollie, John here:
We understand that Luciffer was created PERFECT. Saved!
Adam & Eve were created 'very good'. (perfect) There was Rom. 8:1 perfection with NO CONDEMNATION! What did they lack? They were PERFECT IN CHRIST without a PERFECTED CHARACTER as seen in the Word of God. It took Luccifer a long time before he finally rebelled against the Law of God.

So God made man a little lower than the angels, and put the tree in the midst of the garden for their testing, for the developement of their character. Even after they fell & after the flood he 'gave them permission' to shorten their lives from around a 1000 years to todays 70-80 or so! See Gen. 9:5, notice the context of food in verse 3.

But the wrong answer for your question of 'faith alone' is truely a Matt. 25 'foolish' NO/BRAINER one of Obadia 16's ones. (this was not intended for your post!)

For it would VIOLATE Rev. 14:6's [EVERLASTING GOSPEL[ & [CRUCIFY CHRIST AFRESH AND PUT HIM TO AN *OPEN SHAME!] (Heb. 6:6) BY 'faith alone' as the 'd'evil is ATTEMPTING TO VOID OUT THE GODHEADS ETERNAL [EVERLASTING COVENANT] OF Heb. 13:20

Take care & remember always that the Judgement starts with the House of God 'first'! 1 Peter 4:17. (then you will seewhat some of these ones will really become Cry)

----John
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Agur3046
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« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2003, 02:42:14 AM »

Hello John, I want to make sure that I'm geting your beliefs right, you believe that it is by faith and works that one is saved?  I believe differently according to scripture so I disagree with Petro.  To me, when Jesus made a promise, He said it with no strings attached so now if he did, He had just told a white lie saying, "if you believe me...you have eternal life but..."

Ps.  I love to read verses but I can only deal with one verse at a time, so it is an even exchange of ideas and not a firefight.

God bless

Agur
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"Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."
Proverbs 30:4 & Ephesians 2:8-9
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