A few questions on Heaven and Hell, and God's mercy

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

It is obvious that the lost and the babes in Christ get confused when the subject is life and death. Men naturally think about these physical bodies when they consider life and death. Christians, especially those with some maturity, consider spiritual life and glorified bodies. Mature Christians certainly have no desire to live in the flesh of the bodies we currently have.

It's very sad that some claiming to be Christians deny the TRUTHS of the Holy Bible. The "WHY?" is really pretty simple: the devil doesn't want people to believe there is a heaven, hell, or accountability to GOD. The devil doesn't want people to feel any urgency about considering peace with God. That's why we have so many people preaching and teaching who don't have a clue about the Holy Bible. I would conclude that the false teachers are either LOST or confused so totally that they would be doing God a favor by remaining quiet until they've spent much longer than 10 minutes studying the Holy Bible.

Lampstand, I have no idea whether you are lost or saved, but I can say with absolute certainty that you have no business trying to preach or teach from the Holy Bible right now. Lampstand, start with JESUS and the Cross, and first try to understand why JESUS died on the Cross for us. PLEASE! - ask questions about why confuses you instead of trying to preach or teach about what confuses you. NOTE:  If you don't have JESUS CHRIST as your Lord and Saviour, you won't understand many of the portions of Scripture you are trying to teach. Many portions of Scripture are understood only with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in the hearts of the children of God. The lost don't have the Holy Spirit of God living in their hearts, so they make a mess out of understanding many portions of God's Word.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Proverbs 16:16 NASB  How much better it is to get wisdom than gold! And to get understanding is to be chosen above silver.

[Shammu]

Hmm, Paul certainly does not agree with this notion as you have presented it.

Also, the Bible clearly tells us that no one is heaven right now because all "sleep":

Phi 1:21  For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
Phi 1:22  But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose.
Phi 1:23  But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;
Phi 1:24  yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.

Paul speaks of his desire to depart and be with Christ, rather than remaining in the flesh.   No slumbering gain to speak of here      He knew his destination at death was to be with Christ!

2Co 5:8  We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Another key passage about our transition from this life to the next.  Granted, our resurrected bodies wont be known until the resurrection, but again this with other passages makes things crystal clear regarding a believers whereabouts after death.

Also, there is not one shred of evidence in scripture that gives any indication of ANYONE serving God in heaven right now, other than the holy angels and Jesus Christ.

Well, lets just say you can't get there from here after reading Paul's previous passages.

In fact, scripture says that we will reign with Christ ON EARTH.

Yes it surely does, but it also says....

Joh 14:2  In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3  And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.


Where did He go?  His Fathers house, which is where He says we are going (to be with Him where He IS) when He comes again and receives us to Himself.   Again, can't get there from here, if we are....well....HERE on earth         Amazing how the light of scripture makes clear these things when we just accept what it says on a whole.

Love in Christ!

AMEN 2T!

[dandirom]

Actually, the Bible states that no man has as yet 'Ascended into heaven' - being in Christ means living in His Word.  In Hebrews 11:39-40 it states that 'And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promises:  God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.'  Bear in mind that he is talking about the patriarchs. The Bible also states that we will see Him in His glory at the same time - Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.

[2nd Timothy]

Actually, the Bible states that no man has as yet 'Ascended into heaven

And at that time Jesus spoke those words, no man had YET acsended into heaven     

[nChrist]

Actually, the Bible states that no man has as yet 'Ascended into heaven' - being in Christ means living in His Word.  In Hebrews 11:39-40 it states that 'And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promises:  God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.'  Bear in mind that he is talking about the patriarchs. The Bible also states that we will see Him in His glory at the same time - Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.

Hello Dandirom,

Christians who have died do not have the Glorified body yet that is Promised by God. BUT, Christians who die have an immediate Promise that is fulfilled right now: "absent from the body, present with the Lord." I must also add that the Promise of the Glorified body will be fulfilled perfectly and completely at God's appointed time.

Love in Christ,
Tom

Romans 5:8-9 NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.  Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

[2nd Timothy]

Hello Dandirom,

Christians who have died do not have the Glorified body yet that is Promised by God. BUT, Christians who die have an immediate Promise that is fulfilled right now: "absent from the body, present with the Lord." I must also add that the Promise of the Glorified body will be fulfilled perfectly and completely at God's appointed time.

Love in Christ,
Tom

Romans 5:8-9 NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.  Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

Amen Mr BEP

[Shammu]

Add another AMEN!!

[Evangelist]

I notice that the one who started this thread is somewhat absent......but here goes anyway.

First, I'll recommend reading this study on hell so that you can get a real grasp on the concept.
Second, much of what you have to say smacks of universalist thought patterns, so I'll recommend   this study on the slippery slopes of universalism.

Lastly, you say that there is NO WHERE in scripture that specifically precludes the possiblity of someone moving from hell to heaven.  What bible are you reading?

Luk 16:24   And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25   But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26   And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence.

and in
Rev 21:8   But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
and then
Rev 21:27   And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
and finally
Rev 22:11   He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

All of which speak directly to the issue of the CULMINATION (finish, end, final, no more, this is it) of human history.

Don't attempt to interject the arguments of logic and fallacy unless you intend to be absolutely logical yourself.

[Evangelist]

BEP, PR, and all moderators:

I would respectfully suggest that you might conisder changing your screen names to SELSUN BLUE 1, SELSUN BLUE 2, etc.

Then you'll really, truly, absolutely be FLAKE REMOVERS!! 

[Soldier4Christ]

Hi Brother Hank,

Amen brother.

Yes the person that started this thread is no longer with us. Your posts on these subjects are still most welcome and very insightful. I for one thank you and pray that it will help others to understand the truth in the word of God much better.

[Soldier4Christ]

BEP, PR, and all moderators:

I would respectfully suggest that you might conisder changing your screen names to SELSUN BLUE 1, SELSUN BLUE 2, etc.

Then you'll really, truly, absolutely be FLAKE REMOVERS!! 

Good point!

[Shammu]

BEP, PR, and all moderators:

I would respectfully suggest that you might conisder changing your screen names to SELSUN BLUE 1, SELSUN BLUE 2, etc.

Then you'll really, truly, absolutely be FLAKE REMOVERS!! 

[nChrist]

Hello Evangelist,

First, AMEN on your post, and I plan to enjoy the studies you provided links for. Thank you Brother Hank!

I don't think it was a coincidence that you mentioned "Universalists" this morning. It might surprise you to know that we even discussed "Universalists" by PM this morning. We are hearing more and more about this by the day. I'm wondering if this could be the precursor for the One World Religion mentioned in Bible Prophecy. I can tell you for positive that the Universalist teaching makes me sad, not for me but for all of the lost and the babes in Christ who will be hooked with this garbage. It appears to be gaining momentum by the minute, and the only defense is a substantial foundation in God's Word.

Please - I'm not trying to say anything that brags about more mature Christians and belittles the lost and the babes in Christ. Brother Hank, you know what my intentions are. We all know many Christians who labor almost continually to make sure that the TRUTH is distributed and easily available. Brother Hank, you are one of those laborers and I give thanks for everyone who feels a burden to help the lost and build up the babes in Christ. The devil is loose and working overtime to snare and devour as many as he can. This makes me very sad. On the other side of the coin, I give thanks that God is giving many Christians the strength and guidance to do His Will in these possible last days of the Age of Grace.

By the way, thanks for the laugh about "Selsun Blue" - I needed that laugh.   What if we just called ourselves the "Selsun Blue Squad"?

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 3:14-19 NASB  For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

[friendship bunch]

 :)I am going to keep this simple the Bible says chose you this day who you will serve.  Once you die your chances are over.  Here on Earth is your only chance.