division is good even denominational division

[LittlePilgrim]

AMEN PASTOR ROGER!

Pockets, I will once again ask you to stop touting denominational division. As some have already said, this kind of division within the church is NOT God's work, but is indeed caused by man's ignorance, man's arrogence, and by the devil himself.

There is not anything, IMO, more harmful to the church than this kind of infighting. As I've said in another topic, the Spirit will reveal different truths to different people with the same scriptures.

 Yes, the entire Bible is important. It is an instruction manual for life. But who among us can claim to have the whole of the Truth? None. We cannot see the whole truth because of our own sinful natures, because of our own human, inborn flaws. Pastor Roger does not have the whole truth. I do not have the whole truth. You, pockets, do not have the whole truth. Your pastors do not have the whole truth. It is for this reason that Christ's church, His body, must unite around what we all agree upon, what we ALL know to be the truth, and that is the doctrine of Christ Himself.

There is much we can all learn from one another, much Christ can use our brothers and sisters to teach us. But from what I have seen, you are unwilling to listen because we dissent from your view that only your denomination teaches the whole truth. Get over it!

[DigitGen]

   "And I will put a division between my people and thy people (Exodus 8:23)."  Even from the very early pages of the Bible we find that there is a division between the people of God and the unsaved.

     Abraham, who trusted in the Lord as his Saviour, was asked to separate himself from his family and nation (Genesis 12:1-3).  Believers, by virtue of the fact that they are saved and are going to heaven, are separated from those unbelievers who are lost and going to hell.  Also, believers, in their Christian walk and life style, are to separate themselves from the unsaved.  II Corinthians 6:17 says, "Wherefore come out from among them and be ye separate."

     Amazing as it may sound, Jesus tells us in the Bible that the message that He brought to the earth would cause division.  We should not be surprised, therefore, because the Lord Jesus Christ has told us so.  Let us look at what Jesus said in Luke 12:51-52, "Suppose you that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, nay; but rather division: For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.  The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother-in-law against the daughter-in-law, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law (Luke 12:51-53)."

     Wherever Jesus went, his message caused division and persecution.  In John 7:40-43 we read, "Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.  Others said, This is the Christ.  But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?  Hath not the Scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?  So there was a division among the people because of him."  Also we read in John 9:16, "And there was a division among them."   And again in John 10:19 we read, "There was a division therefore again among the Jews for these sayings.  And many of them said, He hath a devil, and is mad; why hear ye him?"

     Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven as He plainly stated in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

     The message of the gospel is the power of God unto salvation.  Paul tells us in Romans 1:16, "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ; for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."  The gospel is like a two-edged sword.  For those who believe the gospel, they will be saved.  For those who reject the gospel, they will be lost.  John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."  For those who believe, they will have everlasting life.  For those who reject Christ, they will perish.  So as we have seen the message divides.  It divides between the saved and the lost; those that are going to heaven, from those that are going to hell; those who have life, from those who do not have life.

     I John 5:12 says, "He that hath the Son hath life, and He that hath not the Son of God hath not life."

     Jesus told His disciples, "Woe unto you when all men shall speak well of you! (Luke 6:26)."  We should not be surprised at the mixed reactions to the message of life and death.  The Apostle Paul says, "For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life.  And who is sufficient for these things (II Corinthians 2:15-16)?

     The Gospel message not only separates the lost from the saved, but also, sometimes, the saved from the unsaved:
1) The gospel divides the world into two groups: the saved and the lost.
2) The gospel also divides the Christians into two groups: those who will be faithful in the command to evangelize and those who oppose evangelization.

     As believers, we are told that we "shine as lights in the world; Holding forth the Word of Life (Philippians 2:15-16)."

     After Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt, a picture of the redemption or salvation of the nation, Moses had to ask this redeemed nation, "Who is on the LORD'S side?  Let him come unto me (Exodus 32:36)."  I believe the question still must be asked today of those who know the Lord as their Saviour.  Jesus Christ has commanded us to carry His message to a lost and dying world.  The Great Commission is "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature (Mark 16:15)."  Many believers want the benefits of the cross, but not the offence of the cross.

     "Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God (Philippians 1:27-28)."

     There is a division between those that preach the true gospel and those that preach a perverted or distorted gospel.  The subtlety in this is that it often times sounds like the true gospel but is not.  The test of the true gospel is grace.  If the message excludes grace or mingles works with grace as the means either of justification or sanctification, it is "another" gospel, and the preacher of it is under the anathema (curse) of God.  The Scriptures clearly say in Galatians 1:8-9, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.  As we said before, so say I again.  If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."  Therefore, the message that is perverted or distorted is accursed of God, and the one preaching that message is accursed of God.  Usually, those who have been taught a false gospel will persecute those that teach the pure gospel.  The Apostle Paul explained this in Galatians 5:11, "And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution?  Then is the offence of the cross ceased."  Paul says that the true message of the gospel of salvation apart from human works will bring about persecution, but to mingle works with the true gospel takes away the offense of the cross.  Therefore, we are urged in Scripture to stand on the Lord's side and separate ourselves from those that distort His word and change His message.

     Are you a believer?  If not, then trust Christ as your Saviour now, and He will give you eternal life.  As a believer, are you on the Lord's side?  If not, then align yourself with the precious message of the Lord Jesus Christ.  God will bless you for it.

[GKB]

digitgen,

no offense, but i'm begining to really feel blessed that we disagree...as a matter of fact, if i ever find that we agree on something, i'm really going to research that matter!

p.s. what is it that the lut people believe, please give me some insight on your doctrine.

please be mindful not to pick and chose which parts of the bible you want to run reference to, because if you are not careful, just like the devil, you will be able to find scripture to back up and accept sin. i'm saying that to say this....the bible never contradicts itself, you must pray for wisdom to determine when to use what. on one hand we should be seperate from others who are sinners, but on the other hand, he did not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance....were you always saved? if faith comes by hearing, and all who were saved stayed seperate from you, how than would you hear? be in the world but not of the world. there were some straight sinners who the lord have sent me to, and now they are holy....thank god i was not like some "church" people and turned my back on some who have not heard.....what you do not understand is that one day, someone that you are judging may walk in your church a sinner, and one day walk out YOUR pastor! do not write them off just like god didn't write you off! there are some we should seperate from, but than there are some who need to hear from us, you must use wisdom to determine who's who. not some system that you've come up with to make you feel like you are better than someone....it would be a shame for you to sit in church for many years, die and go to hell, because plainly put, the people perish for their lack of knowledge!

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

I'm back to giving thanks that the Gospel of the Grace of God is simple enough for a child to understand. A child coming to JESUS forever doesn't need to be even able to spell Salvation. All that child needs to do is understand and believe what JESUS CHRIST did on the Cross. This is just one reason why I love to hear children talk about JESUS. Their thoughts and love about JESUS are pure, and they simply know that they belong to JESUS.

Adults can learn many important lessons from children. We should also remember what JESUS said about children in Matthew.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Revelation 21:3-4 NASB  And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."

[LittlePilgrim]

Amen, BEP. The faith of a child is a marvelous thing. It is for that reason that children so often can sense things that we as grownups cannot. We become so... Obsessed with our knowledge, so intent in our studies, that sometimes... Sometimes we forget to just sit still and listen for the voice of the Spirit.

We are so quick to dismiss young children because of their lack of knowledge... But in one sense, they are stronger than we could ever hope to be. It is the faith of a child which will move mountains.

[ollie]

I firmly believe that denominations are a man made cult. Each take what they believe and make the most of it. Is one single Church correct? I believe not. Jesus knows the hearts, of you and Pastor Roger. I also believe that you both are brothers.

You are right on the money though......  Nothing is more important then loving Jesus.

Resting on the hands, of the Lord.
Bob

Hosea 14:4 I will heal their faithlessness; I will love them freely, for My anger is turned away from [Israel].

what wrong with that thinking is

Most of the Christian marty's who gave their lives for Christ truth's than were member's of man made Cult's ?

There are many denomination's now day's that teach  cult like   teachings.
Yet  some
hold to Christ truth's.
 How does one tell?
Check all their  belief's out with Gods bible.

You say only God/Jesus knows the heart, yet at the same time make judgements on everyone as if you also have special insight into the hearts of men also.

By their fruits you shall know them.

ollie