ACLU In The News

[Soldier4Christ]

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Paul Zoltan, a Dallas immigration lawyer, says his foreign client's citizen wife was arrested in 2003 at her marriage interview and charged with shoplifting. "My trust in your office has been deeply shaken," the lawyer wrote the immigration service, complaining that the arrest had nothing to do with the immigration service's job. He got no reply, and the service has no comment. A citizen husband at an interview in Chicago was held for hours on a Georgia cocaine-possession warrant, says his wife's lawyer, Rebecca Reyes. The warrant was "years old," she says. Georgia wasn't interested; the husband was released.

Jim Austin watched as his client's citizen wife was arrested for trespassing in Kansas City, Mo. Rebecca White took her foreign client's two children into a bathroom in Seattle so they wouldn't see their citizen father taken away; the charge was failure to return household rental equipment. Also in Seattle, a citizen sponsoring his wife's application was jailed overnight on a warrant for someone else.

"They apologized," says Diana Moller, a lawyer who represented the wife, explaining why the man preferred not to give an interview. "He wants to leave it at that."

Arrests of this kind have become common enough that many lawyers now quiz citizens about warrants before sending them into immigration interviews. The service doesn't count the citizens it arrests; if any dangerous criminals have been among them, it can't say.

Customs and Border Protection can. When it nets citizens on their way into the country who are wanted for serious crimes, it puts out press releases. Two standouts from the Mexican border: a man from North Carolina wanted for multiple sex crimes against children in Arizona and Massachusetts; and a young couple on the run from Colorado, both wanted for committing a double murder. And one from the Canadian border: an escaped robber from Seattle driving a stolen car with a shotgun in the trunk and an Uzi in his luggage.

"This technology is a fast, effective weapon in the war on terror," one announcement quotes the agency's chief, Robert C. Bonner, as saying, "but also gives our agents a means to apprehend criminals and fugitives of every kind."

At airports, the border agency's screening for fugitives has become still more efficient with the passage of a new antiterror law requiring flights from overseas to transmit passenger lists before landing. Now, inspectors can organize welcoming parties in advance.

"They're surprised, let me tell you," says a former inspector at Los Angeles Airport who asked not to be named. Often, his warrants were for Las Vegas gambling debts. "Couples come back from Cancun and the husband has to explain. The wife says, 'Why didn't you tell me?' I've seen tears. I've seen breakdowns."

In 2003, the Transportation Security Administration, also part of Homeland Security, floated the idea of screening all passengers for warrants, citizens included, before they board domestic flights. The TSA's goal was to "ensure that passengers do not sit next to known terrorists and wanted murderers." After an outcry across the board -- from the American Civil Liberties Union to the American Conservative Union -- it backed off, and now is rolling out a system that limits such searches to terrorist-watch lists.

At the immigration service, the authority to run checks on citizens dates back to at least 2002, the service says in a statement. That's when the FBI granted the old INS access to "certain" files "for the purpose of adjudicating immigration-benefit applications." The new service says it derives limited access to files on citizens from that deal with the FBI.

The arrangement comes as news to legal experts and law-enforcement officials, including Judson Barce, the prosecutor in Benton County, Ind. "A civil authority ran a criminal check?" he says. "How do they do that?"

It was thanks to the search run by a Chicago immigration clerk that Mr. Barce was able to bring Issah Samori to justice.

As soon as the clerk said the word "warrant," Mr. Samori guessed what it was about. Six months earlier, on a Sunday drive to visit a relative, he was heading south in his Camry on a state highway when a Benton County police car pulled him over.

The patrolman said Mr. Samori had hit 86 miles per hour in a 55 mph zone, fast enough to be reckless in Benton. Mr. Samori says he called the county to get a court date, but no appointment letter ever reached his house. That was the last he thought about the ticket until he and his wife went in for their marriage interview.

After the immigration clerk found the warrant Benton County issued because Mr. Samori had missed his court date, he spent two nights in Chicago-area jails. Then Benton's sheriff arrived to drive him, in handcuffs, 70 miles to Indiana, where Mr. Samori spent his third night in a cell.

In court the next day, he didn't contest the charge. "I just wanted to get it over," he says. In return for a $400 bond, he was set free. He returned a month later with proof that he had taken a defensive-driving course. The reckless-driving charge was dismissed. Less the sheriff's expenses for driving down from Chicago, he got a refund of $203.98.

At the end of July, after an 18-month pause, the Samoris sat down once again at a clerk's desk in Chicago's federal building to complete their green-card interview. They brought a pile of papers and an album of wedding pictures to prove their marriage is real. They are still waiting for the immigration service to make its decision.

[Soldier4Christ]

Article Last Updated: 11/02/2005 12:22 AM
Cross may return to Redlands' city logo
Brad A. Greenberg, Staff Writer
San Bernardino County Sun
REDLANDS -- They say one man can make a difference, but in this city it took two or perhaps none.

A year and a half ago, the American Civil Liberties Union told Redlands officials that two residents had complained that the city's 42-year-old logo promoted Christianity because it bore the image of a cross. The rights group threatened to sue.

The City Council voted in closed session to remove the cross from the logo.

On Tuesday, Redlands voters are to decide whether the cross should be returned and tax dollars should be used in a legal battle that could cost upwards of $500,000.

Stars have risen in the firmament of this suburban drama. But two names don't even make the credits the purported church-state whistle-blowers.

That's left many wondering: Who are the Redlands Two?

"If you find them, let me know," said Scott Siegel, one of the most vocal supporters of the cross logo. "I'd be interested to find out if they really exist."

The ACLU insists its assistance was solicited.

"We weren't looking to pick a fight with the city of Redlands," said Peter Eliasberg, managing attorney of the Southern California ACLU.

State and U.S. court rules require a plaintiff to claim injury. For the Redlands cross, that meant an unhappy resident or two.

There could be any number of reasons why those residents have remained anonymous. Just ask Darrell Barker, the first person to publicly complain about the Redlands cross.

In 1986, Barker, a former Redlands resident then living in San Bernardino, sent a letter to the mayor stating, "From an atheistic viewpoint, many of us find the Christian torture symbol offensive."

Once his request to have the cross removed hit the local newspapers, Barker said he was ostracized and lost his job.

"I was treated like a second-class citizen," Barker said by phone from his Phoenix home.

Because Barker was not living in Redlands, the ACLU couldn't sue the city. The group needed a resident's complaint. No one stepped forward until winter 2004.

The logo to be voted on on Tuesday is made up of four sections, each representing a community staple: industry, agriculture, education and religion. The religion quadrant bears a shining cross floating above a church steeple.

Supporters of the cross claim the symbol is historic to Redlands long known as "a city of churches," according to Edith Parker Hinckley's 1951 book about Redlands, "On the Banks of the Zanja."

Last year, Don McCue was asked by city officials to research whether Redlands had more churches than neighboring cities. A review of city directories from 1940 showed Redlands had 30 percent more churches per capita than Riverside and San Bernardino. But "iron-clad proof" has proven elusive, said McCue, archivist and head of special collections at A.K. Smiley Public Library.

Redlands also is home to the Asistencia, the former ranch outpost of the Mission San Gabriel. But the City Council in January rejected an alternate logo that would have had five sections, including one for the Asistencia.

The disputed logo was adopted by the City Council as the official city seal in 1963. The logo was not used by the city clerk to authenticate city documents, but it appeared on most city business and property until 20 months ago.

The ACLU's two-page letter threatening to sue arrived at City Hall on March 11, 2004.

Days later, the council voted to remove the cross. It was covered on maintenance trucks and drilled through on police and fire badges.

The issue was dormant until it appeared in The Sun on Easter weekend.

City Hall was flooded with phone calls and letters some irate, some supportive. Mayor Susan Peppler soon appeared on the conservative TV talk show "The O'Reilly Factor" to defend the city's decision.

Council members largely have remained neutral if not fiscally pragmatic. An estimate by the city found that defending the logo and losing could cost taxpayers up to $750,000.

The Rev. John Walsh, chaplain of the University of Redlands, worked with several clergy members to support the city and formed Citizens for Inclusivity and later Redlands Values Coalition. Pastor Don Wallace of Redlands Christian Center and Siegel, a Seventh-day Adventist, formed Save Redlands' Seal.

The city was divided.

Then the populous revolt occurred: Siegel began collecting signatures for a ballot initiative. Measure Q would return the cross to the logo, which would be authenticated as the official Redlands seal.

If Q is approved, the ACLU again has threatened to sue. But the ACLU's lawsuit would no longer hinge on the existence of the Redlands Two.

"If you stand by your conviction that there should be a cross on the logo, then I want to see you write a personal check to defend that position. Don't use money from Redlands taxpayers to pay for your beliefs," David Swenson wrote in a letter to the council. "If a measure to get a cross back onto the Redlands logo is passed the very next check I write will go to the ACLU."

[Soldier4Christ]

Vets Fight Display At Caledonia War Monument

(Caledonia, NY) 11/02/05 -- Controversy over the use of a Civil War monument for a performance art event boiled over Tuesday night at a village meeting in Caledonia, Livingston County.

Some residents, mostly veterans, pushed the village board to cancel a planned performance art event they say is anti-war.

However, Mayor Dean Manley and the board wouldn't talk about the event, citing legal issues.

The artist, Cindy Defelice of Bergen, says the show isn't anti-war, just critical of the goals of war. The same artist once got approval and then was rejected in an attempt to cover that entire monument with dandelions. Now, she wants to fill the public intersection where the monument is located with a live art event.

Bob Rapone, a Caledonia native and a Vietnam War Vet, thinks they should move the event.

"She can do this with permission and permits in the town park, but I don't think she should do it anywhere near the monument," he said.

The Rochester chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union said it hasn't been contacted about the case, but ACLU Attorney Scott Forsyth thinks Defelice would have grounds for a lawsuit if her event is cancelled.

"She's fully cloaked by the First Amendment she has the right to express herself at that site," he said.

Last week, Defelice, said she has no intention of suing the village board to push the project forward. She was unavailable for comment on Tuesday.

Unless the board changes its mind, the event will go ahead in spring 2006

[Soldier4Christ]

Cobb fights suit vs. prayer

By RICHARD WHITT
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 11/02/05

Cobb County officials argued Tuesday to keep the name of Jesus in prayers at County Commission meetings, claiming in court documents that constitutional principles "squarely support" their position.

In a 50-page response to a federal lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union seeking to stop clergy from invoking Jesus' name at meetings, lawyers for the county cited historical precedence and current practices.

The county said the ACLU's request for an immediate halt to the prayers — filed on behalf of seven Cobb County residents — is unnecessary. They cited a multiyear delay in filing the suit as evidence that plaintiffs would not suffer "irreparable harm" if the prayers continue while merits of the case are settled in court.

The ACLU filed suit last August in federal court in Atlanta, claiming that overtly Christian prayers promote Christianity and are repressive to other religions. Cobb lawyers said members of Jewish and Muslim faiths are regularly invited and have given invocations.

Invocations made "in Jesus' name" are commonplace and have been for centuries, the county's lawyers said.

"As a matter of historical fact, the exact prayers given in the first Congress explicitly referred to Jesus Christ," the county's legal brief said. The county's response also cites a prayer "in the name of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ" that was delivered at the opening of the U.S. House on July 19, 2005.

Calls to ACLU attorneys Maggie Garrett and Gerry Weber were not returned Tuesday. Jeffrey Selman, a Cobb resident who first complained about the prayers and is a plaintiff in the lawsuit, also did not return calls.

Cobb Commission Chairman Sam Olens said the prayers meet constitutional requirements for separation of church and state and promised a vigorous defense.

"We feel very strongly that their case is improper," Olens said. "If they're looking for a test case, we're not it."

[Soldier4Christ]

South Carolina
County Councilman Claims Victory In Fight For Prayer
Nov 3, 2005, 09:55 AM

Two months since the A.C.L.U warned city and county councils to stop using Jesus' name in prayers during public meetings, the Attorney General issues a stern response.

 

FOX Carolina’sJamie Guirola reports, the short letter even accuses the A.C.L.U. of possible defamation.

 

In September the A.C.L.U. warned Oconee County and the cities of Anderson and Seneca of the potential high cost in legal fees.  The A.C.L.U. threatened legal action if the governments didn't uphold a ruling by the federal appeals court.  The court said referring to a specific god like Jesus Christ shows preference for one religion and officially discriminates against all.

 

Bill Rinehart/Oconee County Councilman:  “Not everyone runs for cover when the A.C.L.U. rattles”.

 

But 2 months and nothing's changed at any of the 3 councils warned by the A.C.L.U.  Councilman Bill Rinehart says complying is a violation of his freedom of religion.

 

Rinehart:  “Just because I'm a public official doesn’t mean I’m surrendering my personal rights. My personal freedoms. My civil liberties”.

 

And the attorney general agrees with all three governments.  Wednesday, he wrote a letter to the A.C.L.U. saying it:  "appears to...create..Controversy and chill the free exercise of religion"

And its threats "seem calculated to intimidate".

 

The A.C.L.U. says the Attorney General doesn’t get it.

 

Mike Cubelo/A.C.L.U.:  “He seems to still not understand what the courts want here and they don’t want government prayer, government officially endorsing one religion over the other”.

[Soldier4Christ]

More on the Oconee County case. An Attorney General with his priorities on straight.



Date Published: November 3, 2005

Praise God! I pray that he wins this case.

McMaster supports councils who use 'Jesus' in prayers

The Associated Press

State Attorney General Henry McMaster says he will take on the American Civil Liberties Union if the group takes a city or county council to court over prayers said before meetings.

McMaster wrote a letter to the Piedmont Chapter of the ACLU, after the group wrote its own letters to the Oconee County Council and the Anderson and Seneca city councils in September, asking them to follow a federal court order to stop using the name of Jesus Christ in prayers.

"There is no federal or state law which tells people that they must pray or not pray in any particular way, as this would be in direct conflict with the express words of the United States and South Carolina constitutions guaranteeing the free exercise of religion," McMaster wrote.

McMaster's letter was addressed to ACLU chapter president Mike Cubelo, who wrote back to the attorney general saying he is mixing up "government prayer issues with individual freedoms."

"This dispute has never been about an individual's right to pray as he chooses," Cubelo wrote. "The ACLU supports this right wholeheartedly ... Our dispute, however, is about government prayer which favors one religion or denomination over others."

McMaster said his office will support a council if the ACLU takes it to court. "The point is the ACLU's intent is to find fault with any prayer and that is contrary to the South Carolina and U.S. Constitutions," McMaster said.

The dispute is over a July 2004 ruling by the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upholding a lower judge's decision that prayers before meetings of the Great Falls Town Council were unconstitutional because by mentioning Jesus' name, they honored one faith over another.

The ACLU's letters reminded the councils of the decision and warned lawsuits may follow if members do not follow the ruling.

Since the group wrote its letter, Oconee County Council member the Rev. Bill Rinehart ended his prayer before a meeting asking for wisdom, direction and guidance "in the name of Jesus."

"The attorney general supports our premise all along that we do not forfeit our personal rights just because we are elected to office," said Rinehart, who also is a pastor for a Seneca church. "The attorney general has come forward and issued a real strong rebuke and we have won this round. How many councils, school boards have acquiesced just because the ACLU rattled their saber?"

[Soldier4Christ]

ACLU Concerned Over Gideons
by Jay on 11-05-05 @ 6:53 pm Filed under Church And State, News

Rememember your parents talking about how times have changed? I’m only 28 but I’m starting to feel old. I’m starting to say things that my parents used to say. My, my, how times have changed.

When I was in the 8th grade, the Gideons came to our school with boxes full of tiny little pocket sized New Testaments. There was no requirement to take one, just take one if you wanted it. All voluntary, no problem. I remember taking two. That same day I got in a fight with someone, and I was inciting it. We had a high porch outside our gym, and one of the known bullies kept pushing me off. I was attempting the philosphy of “turn the other cheek”, and it was working. I kept going back to the porch, and saying, “that was fun, do it again.” Each time he pushed me harder, and was getting very aggrevated that I seemed to be enjoying it when he was trying to show he was more powerful than I was. We both got in trouble.

Back in those days they had a cut piece of wood called a paddle. Perhaps unbelivable to many of you, they would use this paddle on your behind as a means of discipline. As we waited for our punishment, I suddenly realized that I had two Gideon’s Bibles! An ephiphany began! If I could put the little books in my back pockets, perhaps I could cushion the pain of the paddling. I mentioned the idea to the bully. He thought it was ingenious! We became best friends right there, and throughout our highschool years. Though we have lost contact, I would still consider this guy as one of my best friends. So did the philosphy of “cover the other cheek” work? Well, of course not. The teacher was too smart for that.

Anyway….as my parents used to say, “times have changed.”

    Two Gideons International representatives were in the Robert S. Payne Elementary School cafeteria Friday alongside a table of small red Bibles.

    The two men had permission to be there from Lynchburg City Schools. Superintendent Paul McKendrick said city school policy requires students to give the Gideons representative a form signed by a parent before they can accept a Bible.

    The executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Virginia, Kent Willis, said the practice merits a closer look. Source

Permission slips to recieve a little book. Whats so threatening about a little book? Something that each individual have a choice on reading or not. Something each individual has a choice on whether to belive as truth or not. The ACLU were concerned over the permission slip portion too, but for different reasons.

    School division policy requires that parental permission forms to accept the text be sent home with students prior to the Gideons’ arrival, McKendrick said.

    For Willis, that raises more concerns.

    “The most important question here is what role does the school play in the religious activity?” Willis said.

    “The reason courts have allowed schools to have Gideons come is that the school can claim to play a passive and neutral role. They’re not recruiting Gideons.

    “But if a school goes so far as to send a note home, that seems to me to be a much more active role.”

I find this a very ironic position for the ACLU to take. The very reason the school even went through the effort of providing permission slips was probably out of fear they would get sued by the ACLU, or some other bloodthirsty liberal activist group.

My how times have changed. This school shouldn’t need permission slips of any kind according to the legislative judicial branch in the 9th District. They just ruled a blanket decision that parents have no right on what a public school can teach their children. In that particular case the school was teaching seven year old children about touching private parts, and sexual desires. No permission from parents required in this. The ACLU, no where to be found. Not a peep from them. But to hand out a tiny little New Testament, the ACLU are concerned.

Informing Parents of what goes on at school concerns the ACLU when it fits their agenda. The American Civil Liberties Union of Kentucky has urged state school leaders to do a better job informing parents of their right to keep their child’s information away from military recruiters.

One father faced criminal charges after expressing his concern over his 5 year old son being taught gay tolerance. In another kindergarten class a teacher cenored a five year old’s drawing because it included a drawing of Jesus. In another school they were teaching children to be Muslims. The ACLU were nowhere to be found in any of these cases. But when it comes to tiny little books, the ACLU feel that liberty is threatened. My, how times have changed.

[Soldier4Christ]

Rally planned by religious leaders over council prayers

(Seneca-AP) November 5, 2005 - An Oconee County minister says faith groups have begun lining up financial contributors in case a fight over prayers in public meetings goes to court.

The Reverend Wayne Morton is president of the Oconee County Ministerial Association and says several physicians and businessmen have come forward and offered financial assistance if the issue brings litigation.

His group and the Beaverdam Baptist Association are sponsoring a prayer rally on November 17th to support local elected officials who want to say Christian prayers in meetings.

The American Civil Liberties Union has sent letters to several local governments that say their public prayers may violate laws that prohibit government-sanctioned prayers to a specific deity.

Attorney General Henry McMaster weighed in this week, saying the ACLU's letter is legally inaccurate.

The dispute is over a July 2004 ruling by the 4th US Circuit Court of Appeals upholding a lower judge's decision that prayers mentioning Jesus' name before meetings of the Great Falls Town Council were unconstitutional because they honored one faith over another.

[Soldier4Christ]

 Prayer rally organizers invite ACLU members

By David Williams Oconee-Pickens Bureau
November 4, 2005

SENECA - American Civil Liberties Union officials say they welcome an invitation to an Oconee County Prayer Rally.

The rally, sponsored by the Oconee County Ministerial Association and the Beaverdam Baptist Association, is a call to show support for Oconee County Council and Anderson and Seneca city council members who pray in the name of Jesus to open their meetings, said the organizer, the Rev. Wayne Morton.

"We support people praying; that's their right," said Mike Cubelo, president of the Piedmont Chapter of the ACLU.

The ACLU, which has sent letters to the three councils advising them their prayer practice, may be in violation of the law. Mr. Cubelo said the ACLU's point is that when a government official offers a prayer at a government meeting, then it's a government prayer.

South Carolina Attorney General Henry McMaster weighed in on the issue this week, saying the ACLU's letter is legally inaccurate. But the U. S. Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit has ruled that a specific deity cannot be named in invocations given at governmental meetings.

The case of Darla Kay Wynne versus the Chester County town of Great Falls ended when the U.S. Supreme Court would not hear an appeal. The town was eventually ordered to pay about $53,000 in legal fees.

"Mr. McMaster already tried all this and got slapped down," said Neil Caesar, a Greenville attorney and ACLU member who is handling legal maneuvers for the ACLU. "We simply ask Mr. McMaster to offer advice and council to local governments. This all started as information and now you have those who are going out of their way to violate the law. We need to be rational and weed out the hysteria."

Mr. Morton, president of the Oconee County Ministerial Association, said the Nov. 17 Prayer Rally is a way Oconee County can come together and show support for its elected leaders.

"We've invited Mayor Richard Shirley (Anderson) and Mayor (Dan) Alexander (Seneca) and the Oconee County Council," Mr. Morton said. "We'll even invite the ACLU because there are a lot of people who want to pray for them."

Mr. Morton said waging a campaign for prayer is war and it requires a war chest.

"We've had several physicians and businessmen come forward and offer financial assistance if it does go to litigation," Mr. Morton said.

He did not say how much had been raised and he did not want to identify the financial backers.

The ACLU is a non-profit organization that operates on contributions and does not receive government funding, Mr. Cubelo said.

Mr. Morton said the Beaverdam Baptist Association has about 86 churches as members, many of which are also members of the 144-member Ministerial Association.

Mr. Morton said about 40 members of the Ministerial Association attended a breakfast meeting Friday and heard from the Rev. Bill Rinehart, a county council member and the council's official chaplain who leads the invocation.

"Bill Rinehart shared his perspective on how he should not have to limit his personal faith just because he has been elected to office," Mr. Morton said.

Mayor Alexander said, "the power of prayer for me is one of the strongest things we can do for each other. Seeing more people united together is very comforting."

The rally will be at 7 p.m. at the Seneca High School Auditorium on Wells Highway. For more information about the rally, call Mr. Morton at (864) 247-5428.

[Soldier4Christ]

Group Asks Bush to Quit Boy Scouts Role
By Joey Lomicky - Trustworthy, helpful, friendly and kind are all traits found in the Boy Scout Code; however, homosexuals and atheists are not.

Washington, D.C. - Scripps Howard Foundation Wire - infoZine - That is why Scouting for All, a grassroots advocacy group aiming to make scouting available to everyone, publicly requested for the second time Thursday that President Bush resign as honorary president of Boy Scouts of America.

At a press conference, Bush was given a badge of dishonor for backing BSA.

Volunteers and former Eagle Scouts joined the California-based group, as did representatives from the American Humanist Association, the American Civil Liberties Union, the Secular Coalition of America and the Liberal Catholic Church, which is not affiliated with the Roman Catholic Church.

"How can President Bush support this?" asked Steven Cozza, the group's 20-year-old cofounder and a former Scout.

"The BSA is giving out a message of hate and bigotry," he said. "They're educating youth every day. ... If they taught inclusion instead of hate, things would be different."

In June 2000, the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 that as a private organization BSA had protection under the First Amendment to control its membership.

Since then, Boy Scouts of America, one of the largest youth organizations in the country, has denied membership to atheists and homosexuals. BSA membership was more than 3 million in 2004, with more than 1 million adult leaders.

"It's an atrocity that's happening in America," said Scott Cozza, Steven's father, a former assistant scout master and Scouting for All's president.

Scouting for All is holding Bush to his 2003 State of the Union address in which he, referring to education, vowed that no child should be left behind.

Scouting for All advocates said leaving children behind is exactly what Bush is doing by supporting BSA.

"There is no reason that No Child Left Behind should not expand itself beyond the realms of education," said the Rev. Edward Correll Jr. "Bush is associating himself with an organization that habitually leaves children behind."

Bush is not the first president to serve as honorary president of the Boy Scouts, but he would be the first to resign.

Rep. Lynn Woolsey, D-Calif., who in July 2000 led several congressional colleagues to request then-President Clinton to resign as honorary head of the Boy Scouts, is troubled by the organization's intolerance. Clinton did not resign.

"Private groups have the right to choose their membership and leaders, but the federal government should not honor intolerance because it is not a value we want to teach to our children, nor is it a value that the president of the United States should support," she said.

Gregg Shields, BSA national spokesman, said Bush's endorsement of the Boy Scouts is simply his choice.

"It's the president's decision and we respect it," he said. "Our membership standards reflect our values."

Shields said he understands Scouting for All's desire to change BSA's policies, but the organization has decided not to change.

"The value structure is different," he said. "If you were an atheist or homosexual, the Boy Scouts isn't probably the best place for you."

While they don't expect Bush's resignation or changes in BSA's policy any time soon, the group hopes that parents and Scouts across the country will sever their connections with the Boy Scouts until inclusion is granted.

Eric Marx, 46, of Chevy Chase, Md., a former Scout, will not allow his 9-year-old son to join. Marx said he remembered Scouts as having a historical mission of respecting others and teaching fair and just treatment.

"I've not been an activist," he said. "But because of their policies, we never joined."

Roy Speckhardt said he was once asked by a humanist Eagle Scout, "Why doesn't performance alone prove worthiness?"

"A person's religion and sexual orientation have nothing to do with the merit behind scouting ideals," said Speckhardt, executive director of the American Humanist Association.

Shields disagreed. "Performance alone is not enough," he said. "These are values that we share."

Shields said that boys with differing values have the option to join "other fraternal organizations."

[Soldier4Christ]

Voters decide next week if the "City of Churches" should restore the cross to the Redlands seal.

When the American Civil Liberties Union threatened a costly lawsuit last year if the cross wasn't eliminated, officials decided the cross must be erased from the city logo. Many residents were outraged and voters will now decide Tuesday if the religious symbol will return.

If Measure Q wins, the ACLU will likely go to court.

"This is the first time this has happened, to my knowledge," said ACLU attorney Peter Eliasberg, who tracks crosses on seals statewide. He said it is "highly likely" a lawsuit would be filed against the city if it reinstates the cross.

"The cross is clearly unconstitutional," Eliasberg said. "It sends a message of favor for one religion over others."

Last year, the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors voted to take a cross off the county's seal under threat of a lawsuit by the ACLU.

Scott Siegel, who led the drive to put Measure Q on Tuesday's ballot, resents that the ACLU forced the city into removing the cross from the city seal.

"What happens in this type of situation is that the ACLU threatens to sue, then the city capitulates on a cost basis, and the case is never decided on its legal merits," he said. "The ACLU is telling us that it's a foregone conclusion that we're going to lose if a suit is filed. That's just a ridiculous statement."

________________________

Yes, the ACLU actually employs someone whose primary mission is to "track crosses on seals statewide" and eradicate them.

More on this along with the actions taken by students at Arrowhead Christian Academy can be seen at:
   http://www.redlandsweb.com/about/events/seal_controversy.htm

[Shammu]

I did some research in this, I am now going to let y'all see what is going on. So please read the body, of the message. Least before you read my own notes. This came to me, as an e-mail. I wanted to find out why, words were missing. Words from an American President.
________________________________________________
________________________________________________

A MESSAGE FROM AN APPALLED OBSERVER:

Today I went to visit the new World War II Memorial in Washington, DC. I got an unexpected history lesson. Because I'm a baby boomer, I was one of the youngest in the crowd. Most were the age of my parents, veterans of "the greatest war," with their families. It was a beautiful day, and people were smiling and happy to be there. Hundreds of us milled around the memorial, reading the inspiring words of Eisenhower and Truman that are engraved there.

On the Pacific side of the memorial, a group of us gathered to read the words President Roosevelt used to announce the attack on Pearl Harbor:

Yesterday, December 7, 1941-- a date which will live in infamy--the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked.

One elderly woman read the words aloud:

With confidence in our armed forces, with the unbounding determination of our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph.

But as she read, she was suddenly turned angry. "Wait a minute," she said, "they left out the end of the quote. They left out the most important part. Roosevelt ended the message with "so help us God.'"

Her husband said, "You are probably right. We're not supposed to say things like that now."

"I know I'm right," she insisted. "I remember the speech." The two looked dismayed, shook their heads sadly and walked away.

Listening to their conversation, I thought to myself, "Well, it has been over 50 years. She's probably forgotten."

But she had not forgotten. She was right.

I went home and pulled out the book from book club. "Flags of Our Fathers" by James Bradley. It's all about the battle at Iwo Jima. I haven't gotten too far in the book. It's tough to read because it's a graphic description of the WWII battles in the Pacific.

But right there it was on page 58. Roosevelt's speech to the nation ends in "so help us God."

The people who edited out that part of the speech when they engraved it on the memorial could have fooled me. I was born after the war. But they couldn't fool the people who were there. Roosevelt's words are engraved on their hearts.

Now I ask: "WHO GAVE THEM THE RIGHT TO CHANGE THE WORDS OF HISTORY???"

Send this around to your friends. People need to know before everyone forgets. People today are trying to change the history of America by leaving God out of it, but the truth is, God has been a part of this nation, since the beginning. He still wants to be...and He always will be!

If you agree, pass this on. If not, MAY GOD BLESS YOU
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My own comment;
I did quite a bit of research to find out why, "so help us God", was missing. Seems the ACLU threathened to sue, the National Parks Service, if "so help us God" was etched into the memorial. I am appaled by the gross negilance of the Anti Christian Lawless Union, trying to erase our American history. The Anti Christian Lawless Union, has no right, to change, history, the way it happened.

As a God fearing Christian, I already have a beef with the Anti Christian Lawless Union. However, while researching this, I didn't know who, was behind editing of FDR's words. So I was suprised, in some ways to find out, it was again

Resting in the hands, of the Lord.
Bob

Acts 3:19 So repent (change your mind and purpose); turn around and return [to God], that your sins may be erased (blotted out, wiped clean), that times of refreshing (of recovering from the effects of heat, of reviving with fresh air) may come from the presence of the Lord;

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

It appears that the ACLU devils have their little horns into everything that pertains to GOD in this country.

There is pending legislation that just might remove the power of the ACLU, and I would say that it's just about time. As a country, we've had all of them that we can stand. They are even giving liberals a bad name and are an embarrassment to this country. They don't know it yet, but they are even helping to get Democrats out of office and elect Republicans in their place.

The mystery of recent elections isn't really a mystery at all. The people of America don't want a country without God and without morals.

Here's a NEWS FLASH for the ACLU and their supporters. We still get to vote in this country, and our votes determine what will be done and how it will be done. The ACLU isn't in charge of anything, and their voice isn't any more important than mine. The voters all over America are telling the ACLU and those like them that WE DON'T WANT THEIR GARBAGE AND FILTH. We will refuse to let them dictate what our children will be taught and how they will be raised. The LORD Willing, the power of the ACLU will be removed and the rightful order of things will be restored - one person - one vote. Tort reform and other proposed legislation might even force the ACLU to pay fines, penalties, attorney fees, and reparations for garbage law suits - current and maybe even past suits. I will be praying for just that.

Love in Christ,
Tom

1 Peter 1:3 NASB  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

[Shammu]

Here's a NEWS FLASH for the ACLU and their supporters. We still get to vote in this country, and our votes determine what will be done and how it will be done. The ACLU isn't in charge of anything, and their voice isn't any more important than mine. The voters all over America are telling the ACLU and those like them that WE DON'T WANT THEIR GARBAGE AND FILTH. We will refuse to let them dictate what our children will be taught and how they will be raised. The LORD Willing, the power of the ACLU will be removed and the rightful order of things will be restored - one person - one vote. Tort reform and other proposed legislation might even force the ACLU to pay fines, penalties, attorney fees, and reparations for garbage law suits - current and maybe even past suits. I will be praying for just that.

AMEN

[Soldier4Christ]

Here's a NEWS FLASH for the ACLU and their supporters. We still get to vote in this country, and our votes determine what will be done and how it will be done. The ACLU isn't in charge of anything, and their voice isn't any more important than mine. The voters all over America are telling the ACLU and those like them that WE DON'T WANT THEIR GARBAGE AND FILTH. We will refuse to let them dictate what our children will be taught and how they will be raised. The LORD Willing, the power of the ACLU will be removed and the rightful order of things will be restored - one person - one vote. Tort reform and other proposed legislation might even force the ACLU to pay fines, penalties, attorney fees, and reparations for garbage law suits - current and maybe even past suits. I will be praying for just that.

AMEN

And another AMEN! to that.