What represents the 7 Angels?

[Thomas1215184]

Hello.....I am new to this forum. May the Lord be with you.

I am doing some searching on a verse. The verse is pasted below.
My question is this........Who, What represents the 7 Angels?

"The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

REV. 1:20

Thank you......

[Soldier4Christ]

The seven stars represent the seven angels. If you mean who, what are the 7 angels it is that the seven angels represent the pastors of the 7 churches of Asia.

[Thomas1215184]

Thank you...........Here all along I was thinking that the 7 angels were actually the 7 Spirits of the 7 Seals which coincided with the 7 candlesticks when they were opened.

You are saying that these 7 angels represent the 7 Pastors of the 7 Churches in Asia Minor?
Also, is that where Paul journeyed to deliver the Word to these 7 Pastors so they could spread the Gospel to all Nations?

[Soldier4Christ]

We have an indepth study of these pages on the forum already that I think will be of greater assistance to you than a brief from me here. It is by a member that frequents here by the screen name of Paul2, it is a really good study. You can read it at:

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=6835

There is a debate thread that goes with it for more information:

http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=4;action=display;threadid=6873

If after reading through these two threads you still have any questions then please do so in the second thread.

[nChrist]

Hello Thomas1215184,

First, I see that you are new, so WELCOME!!

_________________________

There are numerous thoughts about the 7 Angels of Revelation 1:20:

1)   Officials known as angels or messengers of the synagogue, transferred to the Christian Church. This interpretation does not appear to be very reasonable. It would address the conversion of a Jewish assemblage to a Christian assemblage and the old thoughts of Jews that the synagogue had an angel as a messenger.

2)  Angels who served as Heavenly Guardians of the Churches.

3)  The personification of the Church, spoken of as an angel representing that personification.

4)  A collective representation of the leaders of a Church (i.e. Pastor, Deacons, etc.).
___________________________

I lean to believe in a broader term representing the overall ministry, beliefs, work, congregation, and effects of the Church. I realize this statement is broad, but I believe it is the most accurate:  the Spirit in effect and at work collectively in a Church in the bearing of God's Message - AND, God's view of the True Spiritual State of a Church. Finally, I would say that God's view of the True Spiritual State of a Church could be good, bad, or anything in between, AND the Holy Spirit is not responsible for the success or failure of men serving as messengers individually or collectively. This is simply my opinion, and I would quickly note there are other reasonable explanations.

Please see the following references and study them in context:

Revelation 1:4  NASB  John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,

Revelation 1:11  NASB  saying, "Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea."

Matthew 11:10  NASB  "This is the one about whom it is written, 'BEHOLD, I SEND MY MESSENGER AHEAD OF YOU, WHO WILL PREPARE YOUR WAY BEFORE YOU.'

Revelation 2:20  NASB  'But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols.

Matthew 18:10  NASB  "See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their angels in heaven continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven.

Acts 12:15  NASB  They said to her, "You are out of your mind!" But she kept insisting that it was so. They kept saying, "It is his angel."

Philippians 4:18  NASB  But I have received everything in full and have an abundance; I am amply supplied, having received from Epaphroditus what you have sent, a fragrant aroma, an acceptable sacrifice, well-pleasing to God.

Revelation 3:22  NASB  'He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.'"

Matthew 13:11  NASB  Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

Revelation 2:1  NASB  "To the angel of the church in Ephesus write: The One who holds the seven stars in His right hand, the One who walks among the seven golden lampstands, says this:

Revelation 2:8  NASB  "And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: The first and the last, who was dead, and has come to life, says this:

Revelation 2:12  NASB  "And to the angel of the church in Pergamum write: The One who has the sharp two-edged sword says this:

Revelation 2:18  NASB  "And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write: The Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet are like burnished bronze, says this:

Revelation 3:1  NASB  "To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this: 'I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

Revelation 3:7  NASB  "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: He who is holy, who is true, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, and who shuts and no one opens, says this:

Revelation 3:14  NASB  "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:

Malachi 2:7  NASB  "For the lips of a priest should preserve knowledge, and men should seek instruction from his mouth; for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

Malachi 3:1  NASB  "Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the LORD of hosts.

Haggai 1:13  NASB  Then Haggai, the messenger of the LORD, spoke by the commission of the LORD to the people saying, " 'I am with you,' declares the LORD."
______________________________

I realize many of my thoughts are broad and somewhat vague, but I hope that I helped some.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Timothy 6:12 NASB  Fight the good fight of faith; take hold of the eternal life to which you were called, and you made the good confession in the presence of many witnesses.

[Thomas1215184]

First off this morning, I would like to Thank Pastor Roger for his post with the links posted. That was some very enlightening reading. Lots of food for Wisdom

Tom

The very first verse you posted is what led me to this question in the first place.

Revelation 1:4 and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,

I am of the wisdom that these seven spirits who are before His throne, are directly related to the opening of the seven seals. Therefore, this leads me to wonder if the seven stars, who are the seven angels of the churches, are really the seven spirits who are before his throne.
Now bear with me in this thought...............Where did these seven spirits come from that are before his throne?
I have been led to this verse below:

"Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils." Mark 16:9

The wrath of the opening of the seven seals will be executed in place by the seven spirits at his throne. (In other words, they will be turned loose)

We then can go to the Golden Lampstands and verify the seven cups which will be poured out over the land.

The little book was delivered to the Pastors of the churches in Asia Minor for sure...........However, I find it hard to believe that these seven pastors would be considered angels.

 

[nChrist]

Thomas1215184 Said:

The little book was delivered to the Pastors of the churches in Asia Minor for sure...........However, I find it hard to believe that these seven pastors would be considered angels.

Hello Brother,

I agree that the seven pastors are not angels, as I listed in what I thought about the 7 angels. If you look at the root from the ancient language, angel and messenger can be implied. Well, there are other implications that can also be implied in Revelation 1:20. That's why there are numerous thoughts about this Scripture, and that's also why I listed my thoughts as nothing but an opinion. One reason for the opinion I stated involves fact:  any degree of failure is associated with man - never God.

I haven't been to sleep yet, so I think that I will try to digest your last message after I've had some rest. So, I'll get back with you later. If you have additional thoughts and references about your conclusions, please post them. Many of us on the forum enjoy the study of Bible Prophecy. At this point, I'm too tired to think and do any more study before some rest.

Love in Christ,
Tom

Hebrews 10:19-23 NASB  Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful;

[Soldier4Christ]

Hi Thomas.

Personally I normally don't get into very many discussions on the book of Revelations. There are so many different opinions as to the meanings of this book and some people become quite  adamant that theirs is the only one that is right. For this reason I usually just stick to the idea that Jesus is returning (which there is no disputing that) to take up his own.

With my position on that I would like to amplify a bit here in more detail. The word angel in Rev 1:20 is recognized by Strongs as meaning:

G32
ἄγγελος
aggelos
ang'-el-os
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.


G34
ἀγέλη
agelē
ag-el'-ay
From G71 (compare G32); a drove: - herd.


G71
ἄγω
agō
ag'-o
A primary verb; properly to lead; by implication to bring, drive, (reflexively) go, (specifically) pass (time), or (figuratively) induce: - be, bring (forth), carry, (let) go, keep, lead away, be open.


You can see by reading the above explanations why there are so many different ideas of what this verse means.

Some more information from "Vincents Word Studies on Rev 1:20 :

Angels (ἄγγελοι)
The exact meaning of the term here is uncertain. The following are the principal interpretations:
1. The officials known as angels or messengers of the synagogue, transferred to the Christian Church. These were mere clerks or readers; so that their position does not answer to that of the angels presiding over the churches. There is, besides, no trace of the transfer of that office to the Christian Church.
2. Angels proper Heavenly guardians of the churches. This is urged on the ground that the word is constantly used in Revelation of a heavenly being; by reference to the angels of the little ones (Mat_18:10), and to Peter's angel (Act_12:15). It is urged that, if an individual may have a guardian angel, so may a Church. Reference is also made to the tutelar national angels of Dan_10:21; Dan_12:1.
But why should the seer be instructed to write to heavenly messengers, with exhortations to repentance and fidelity, and describing them as “rich,” “poor,” “lukewarm,” etc. (Rev_2:4; Rev_3:1, Rev_3:16)?
3. The angels are a personification of the churches themselves: the Church being spoken of as if concentrated in its angel or messenger. But in Rev_1:20, they are explicitly distinguished from the golden candlesticks, the churches.
4. The rulers ard teachers of the congregation. These are compared by Daniel (Dan_12:3) to stars. See Mal_2:7, where the priest is called the messenger (angel) of the Lord; and Mal_3:1, where the same word is used of the prophet. See also Hag_1:13. Under this interpretation two views are possible. (a) The angels are Bishops; the word ἄγγελος sometimes occurring in that sense (as in Jerome and Socrates). This raises the question of the existence of episcopacy towards the close of the first century. (b) The word is used of the ministry collectively; the whole board of officers, including both presbyters and deacons, who represented and were responsible for the moral condition of the churches. See Act_20:17, Act_20:28; 1Pe_5:1-5.

[Thomas1215184]

Pastor Roger & blackeyedpeas

Thank you both for your posts of knowledge on this subject. I give Thanks for your time and devotion. The understanding of any verse of scripture will be known in a future event. The confoundments of the scripture is there for a reason that we may never discover until a predetermined time. I would venture to say that we must have patience in the answers until that time. One thing the scriptures do present us with as a gift, is that it keeps us open to seek the word of Gospel. The desire to know, leads us to keep our Bibles open, so that we continue to read. We are born with the seed in our souls. The Gospel leads us to nourish that seed, so that it may grow fruits. The gift of those fruits is what we share to mankind by example.
The example set forth by the seven churches is detrimental to the Salvation of all mankind.
Let us pray for those who are lost;and for those who would nourish those seeds; by example.

This may be off from the original subject, but it is an example of the whole.

Thomas

[nChrist]

Amen Brother Thomas!

I will always join in prayer for the lost every day.

Brother, I didn't forget about this study. As you are already aware, any study of such a difficult and deep Bible Prophecy topic takes a lot of time and exploring many references that may take you all over the Bible. "7" is a number that comes up many times in Bible Study, and it's fascinating to consider all of the possible connections. Some of our regulars who enjoy the study of Bible Prophecy are ill or missing right now. Please don't think that a small number of posts in this thread indicates a lack of interest. I think we will get more posts here after a few more have time to digest the material.

Brother, I hope to spend several more hours in studying this topic today. As you are also probably aware, there might not be any ONE sure and sound answer. We are to study and search the Scriptures, but we should remember that some SURE answers are known only by GOD. This should be expected when we are contemplating the MIGHT, POWER, MAJESTY, AND WAYS OF ALMIGHTY GOD which are many times beyond our understanding and imagination. This study definitely puts me in awe of ALMIGHTY GOD!

Brother, I was just reflecting and giving thanks that I am a recipient of God's Grace and Love. I belong to JESUS, so I won't face the terrible wrath of God involved in this study. This study should make every Christian feel a renewed urgency to share the GOOD NEWS of JESUS, the Cross, and Salvation (rescue) from the terrible wrath to come.

Brother, I have one final thought to share before I do some more study on this topic. This is one of the most difficult studies in the Holy Bible, and we will probably all still have questions that won't be answered in this short life. BUT, here's the good part:  the Gospel of God's Grace, HIS Love, HIS Grace, and HIS Gift of JESUS on the Cross for us is simple enough for a child to understand.

Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable GIFT, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour Forever!

Love In Christ,
Tom

2 Corinthians 1:20-22 NASB  For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us. Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.