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Author Topic: Do calvinists know for sure they are saved?  (Read 13983 times)
Left Coast
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« Reply #60 on: August 22, 2003, 11:55:25 PM »





Revelation 22:14.  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 1 John 2:3.  And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments
4.  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 5. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him
 6.  He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.




Wonderful verses. God of course gives us a way to test our salvation. …And hereby we do know that we know him…
If we have been saved it is because God has changed our heart:

Ezekiel 11:19  And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Ezekiel 11:20  That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Hebrews 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Hebrews 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Because we have a new heart we can test our salvation.
Everyone will sin, but a believer finds no pleasure in sin. A believers desire is to remove sin from their life. It is this desire we can use to test our salvation. We need to look at ourselves honestly and often.

2 Corinthians 13:5  Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

It is only after God has given us a new heart that we can keep His commandment to believe.

1 John 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

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Luke 24:45  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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« Reply #61 on: August 23, 2003, 12:10:34 AM »





Quote
Most teachers today teach that you must do something to get yourself saved. You must be a member of a certain church, or you  must give all your money or time. Maybe water baptism is required. Most today claim you must make a freewill decision. Perhaps you have to come forward and confess with your lips. These are works gospels. God is the only one that does any work. We can do nothing to get ourselves saved. We can plead with God for mercy. We can read the bible and we can repent of our sins, but nothing we do guarantees salvation.
Revelation 22:14.  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 1 John 2:3.  And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments
4.  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 5. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him
 6.  He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.





Ollie,

I didn't see your usual disclaimer, are you teaching again, that one must keep the commandments to be saved?

Or are you agreeing with the scriptures that the saved will keep the commandments??

You would be a rich man if you got a nickel for every time you quoted Rec 22:14, and 3:22, and 1 Jhn 2:3.

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« Reply #62 on: August 23, 2003, 12:35:10 AM »

John
You’re a bit of a different story. You seem somewhat confused.
Being born again does not mean keeping Gods laws.
If you read my previous post you’ll see that salvation depends on God making us into an entirely different creature. That is what it means to be born again.
None of us ever contributed any thing to our birth we didn’t get our parents together we didn’t tell God, “why don’t you send me to that family,” we contributed nothing to our birth on this earth.
God uses this concept of birth as another way to explain the change he makes to us:

John 3:3  Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:4  Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
John 3:5  Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:6  That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
John 3:8  The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Many people today claim that they are born again believers but they don’t know what that really means. They feel they are born again because they chose to be. You cannot choose to be born.
It is important to understand the meaning of the word water in verse 5.
Many people feel that water baptism is a requirement for salvation. Again that would be a work. And again such a gospel would not be available to everyone, for instance someone on their deathbed or in a dungeon may not even have water available to them.
The water spoken of in John 3:5 is not literal water. Water is a word that is often used in the bible to symbolize the Gospel. It is called parabolic language.
Jesus spoke in parables. And many parables are clearly explained in the bible. Yet many parables have been left for us to search out. The understanding is always found in the bible.
When John the Baptist was in the wilderness baptizing and Jesus came, he called Jesus a lamb. He wasn’t claiming Jesus was an animal this was parabolic language that Jesus would be the sacrifice for our sins.

 John 1:36  And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
 
Most believers understand this parabolic language is possible through an understanding of other verses in the bible:

Isaiah 53:7  He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.

Going back to the water. Jesus spoke of this living water:

John 7:38  He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

When saved we become witnesses for Christ. We want to tell people about the Lord. The gospel flows out of us.

Genesis 2:10  And a river went out of Eden to water the garden;

The garden was in Eden. To irrigate you bring water in to your garden, you don’t remove water to irrigate your garden. Eden was not only a real place but it is also a picture of Heaven. As the gospel goes out into the world God uses it to change the hearts of those that He intends to save. This brings people in to heaven and so the garden grows.
There are many other places in the bible that point to water as the gospel. One of my personal favorites is found in Numbers 20:11. This passage is very parabolic. (Jesus is the Rock).

Concerning Gods commandments. The entire bible is Gods commandment. And so when God changed the sabbath day it was a commandment. If you choose to follow the seventh day sabbath then you are disobeying Gods commandment.

John there is an old term from my college days; MELLOW OUT!

 Grin
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John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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« Reply #63 on: August 23, 2003, 01:10:47 AM »





Quote
Most teachers today teach that you must do something to get yourself saved. You must be a member of a certain church, or you  must give all your money or time. Maybe water baptism is required. Most today claim you must make a freewill decision. Perhaps you have to come forward and confess with your lips. These are works gospels. God is the only one that does any work. We can do nothing to get ourselves saved. We can plead with God for mercy. We can read the bible and we can repent of our sins, but nothing we do guarantees salvation.
Revelation 22:14.  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 1 John 2:3.  And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments
4.  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 5. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him
 6.  He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

Quote

*******
Aw friend, a breath of fresh air! The 'RICHES' IN THE WORD OF GOD! Matt. 4:4 (talent, dollars, and TALENTS!)

You do know that you will hear from a few others?? .. 'Who [called His own servants] and [delivered unto them His goods]', Right? Matt. 14

Yet, even these must have understood that 'believing' was not enough, huh? All but ONE. For it seems that the verse 25 AFRAID ones need to sound like a broken record, I AM SAVED! I CAN'T FAIL! I AM ONCE SAVE & I AM ALWAYS SAVED!!

NO WORKS THAT ARE REQUIRED FOR "ME" TO DEVELOPE A CHARACTER TO BE SAFE TO BE SAVED, I BELIEVE AND THAT IS ENOUGH!!

"Then he that received the one talent came and said, Lord I knew that thou art a hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: AND I WAS AFRAID], and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, here thou hast that is thine."

And Surely Lord, I have been well taught that there is no way for me to need anything more that 'belief' in you! I have been saved! And [I have your goods & YOU have made me YOUR SERVANT!] (see Heb. 6:4-6) And BESIDES, THERE IS NO CONDITION TO SALVATION! And Lord I was [AFRAID] and just needed this one ($ talent?) hobbie horse to ride over & over again to convince [me] that I understood this I AM SAVED THING! And Lord, I REALLY HAVE COME TO BELIEVE IT...Right?? Cry

[[[His Lord]]] answered and said unto him, THOU WICKED AND SLOUGHFUL MAN ... And CAST YE THE UNPROFITABLE [SERVANT] INTO OUTER DARKNESS: there shall be weeoing and gnashing of teeth."

Thanks again Ollie for the excellent verses!
In the Master's quickly finished work for the house of God first, (1 Peter 4:17)
    John
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Left Coast
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« Reply #64 on: August 23, 2003, 01:26:31 AM »

I really couldn't understand much of what you said John, are you saying our salvation is based on keeping Gods commandments?

1 John 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Keeping Gods commandments is a work.
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Luke 24:45  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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« Reply #65 on: August 23, 2003, 01:36:48 AM »

I really couldn't understand much of what you said John, are you saying our salvation is based on keeping Gods commandments?

1 John 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Keeping Gods commandments is a work.

++++++++++
A WORK??? Sin is BONDAGE! (a very heavy taskmaster!)
A SAVED BORN AGAIN SAINT LOVES THE MASTER! "[IF] YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" No bondage there for the Born Again one! See 2 Cor. 3:3
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« Reply #66 on: August 23, 2003, 01:45:40 AM »

O.K.
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Luke 24:45  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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« Reply #67 on: August 23, 2003, 07:49:10 PM »


The sabbath was changed when Mary Magdalene went to the sepulcher after Jesus was crucified.

So, according to you Hebrews 4:8,9 is a lie ?
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« Reply #68 on: August 24, 2003, 02:36:02 AM »

In Hebrews 4 God is showing that rest is the same as salvation in Christ. It supports the fact that sabbath was changed. Several different words are all translated rest.
So no, Hebrews 4 is not a lie don’t make assumptions it makes you sound ignorant and I don’t believe you are ignorant.
Are you a Seventh Day Adventist? Was your church founded by a woman who had a vision?
I really don’t have time to explain this any more. This week has been fun but I have to go back to work. Occasionally I’ll drop in but work takes me out of town and I won’t get much time off until Christmas, what a wonderful time of the year.
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John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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« Reply #69 on: August 24, 2003, 10:06:42 PM »

In Hebrews 4 God is showing that rest is the same as salvation in Christ. It supports the fact that sabbath was changed. are you a Seventh Day Adventist? Was your church founded by a woman who had a vision?
Better reread Hebrews 4:8,9...Christ NEVER changed the Sabbath day.

As to the SDA church....it is descrubed in Revelation 12: and Rev. 14:12......."HERE IS THE PATIENCE OF THE SAINTS...HERE ARE THEY THAT KEEP THE COMMANDMETNS OF GOD..AND HAVE THE FAITH OF JESUS".

No church that holds Sunday worship services fits that description....they fail the Bible test.
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ollie
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« Reply #70 on: August 25, 2003, 07:07:29 PM »





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Leftcoast:  Most teachers today teach that you must do something to get yourself saved. You must be a member of a certain church, or you  must give all your money or time. Maybe water baptism is required. Most today claim you must make a freewill decision. Perhaps you have to come forward and confess with your lips. These are works gospels. God is the only one that does any work. We can do nothing to get ourselves saved. We can plead with God for mercy. We can read the bible and we can repent of our sins, but nothing we do guarantees salvation.

Quote
 Ollie:  Revelation 22:14.  Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 1 John 2:3.  And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments
4.  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

 5. But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him
 6.  He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.





Quote
Petro:  Ollie,

I didn't see your usual disclaimer,
Huh


Quote
Petro:  are you teaching again, that one must keep the commandments to be saved?
The words of Christ are the commandments those in Christ keep in order to have the truth in themselves. The words of Christ are the commandments one must obey to receive salvation if unsaved. It is called the gospel. "Hear, believe, repent, confess Christ, be baptized, be faithful." If one does not abide in the words of Christ they will not see salvation.



Quote
Petro:  Or are you agreeing with the scriptures that the saved will keep the commandments??
The saved through faith will keep the words of Christ which are His commandments. The unsaved that hear and believe the words of Christ as given through the Holy Spirit start keeping the commandments of Christ by obeying the gospel and being fathful in and to His word.

The point to all this is the saved and unsaved have to do His commandments to find salvation. The quoted scriptures say this. Repent is an example of a commandment for the unsaved and the saved. Part of the initial process in Coming to Christ and remission of sin is repentance, which is turning away from sin. Part of the process of the saved state is repenting and asking for forgiveness of sin committed after being saved. Being saved does not keep one from sinning, but one is sure supposed to rely on Christ and his word in preventing it and try to keep from it by keeping His word, (commandments).


 
Quote
Petro:   You would be a rich man if you got a nickel for every time you quoted Rec 22:14, and 3:22, and 1 Jhn 2:3.
My riches are in Jesus Christ.

Quote
Petro

In Christian Love,
Ollie
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« Reply #71 on: August 27, 2003, 12:04:05 AM »

Ollie,

Quote
posted by ollie  as reply # 70
The words of Christ are the commandments those in Christ keep in order to have the truth in themselves. The words of Christ are the commandments one must obey to receive salvation if unsaved. It is called the gospel. "Hear, believe, repent, confess Christ, be baptized, be faithful." If one does not abide in the words of Christ they will not see salvation.

On the contrary, Jesus, never made the claims you attribute to Him.

He did say;

Jhn 12
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Jhn 14
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

And again,

Mat 10
40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

The words Jesus spoke which must be observed are words God the Father put in His mouth to speak to men in His name, these words are ther commandments of God.

The Commandments Jesus gave to the disciples, especially the apostles, are not for salvation, at all.

You confuse the two.

God's commands must be observed for slavation, this is clear in the teaching of the Law of Moses, but Jesus fulfilled the Law, and abolished the law of sin and death (referring to the Law of Moses, Rom8:1-4)in His flesh.

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« Reply #72 on: August 28, 2003, 01:06:53 AM »

In Hebrews 4 God is showing that rest is the same as salvation in Christ. It supports the fact that sabbath was changed. are you a Seventh Day Adventist? Was your church founded by a woman who had a vision?
Better reread Hebrews 4:8,9...Christ NEVER changed the Sabbath day.

As to the SDA church....it is descrubed in Revelation 12: and Rev. 14:12......."HERE IS THE PATIENCE OF THE SAINTS...HERE ARE THEY THAT KEEP THE COMMANDMETNS OF GOD..AND HAVE THE FAITH OF JESUS".

No church that holds Sunday worship services fits that description....they fail the Bible test.

daredevil,

There is another day spoken, whereby the people of God will find rest, that day is the spoken of by Jesus in;
 
Mk 2
27  ........The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:]/color]
28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

And according to the writer of the Letter to the Hebrews;

Heb 4
3  For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4  For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5  And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6  Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7  Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8  For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9  There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Its not the OT sabbath day it is another day, which we await with patience.

Note carefully verse 8, above, Jesus himself labors in the heavenlies today, ministering in that tabernacle not made with human hands to this day (Heb 8:1-20), interceding for His people (all those whom God the father has given to Him) against the accusations of the evil one who accuses the brethern day and night before the throne of God (Rev 12:10), thius is why the scriptures speak mof another day of rest,m when the captain of our salvatiuon will himself rest from his duties as our great high priest.

Again note these words the apostle Peter says to us;

2 Pet 2
4  Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5  And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6  And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9  But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10  Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11  For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
12  Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
13  Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
14  Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath showed me.
15  Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.
16  For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17  For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18  And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
19  We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

This clearly speaks of another day, not the OT sabbath day.

This is why we observe the first day of the week in rememberance of His resurrection, until the of the Lord come.


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« Reply #73 on: August 30, 2003, 11:42:13 AM »

It has been several years since I looked into the sabbath day. I’ve had to do a bit of a review. I made some errors in what I’ve said previously. When I had first heard this information I chose to check it out, I would recommend that you do the same.
Ideally you should have a Greek interlinear bible. Strong’s concordance is somewhat helpful, Young’s concordance is only a little better and if you can find a Thayer’s lexicon and wade through it, it will help in defining the plural words. The interlinear bible that I used was my wife’s she took it with her when she moved out 7 years ago. However I did find an interlinear tied to Strong’s on the internet.  http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm
Under the field ‘search in’ - find ‘Greek/English Interlinear’ next; type sabbath as a search term and you will get 55 entries.
You will find that all of them except one entry (Mark 15:42) is identified as the same Strong’s number, #4521. They are different words though as you will soon see.
In Mark 15:42 it is Strong’s #4315 a compound word.
4315 prosabbaton {pros-ab'-bat-on}
from 4253 and 4521;; n n
AV - day before the sabbath 1; 1
1) the day before the sabbath
Now go down to Matthew 28:1. Highlight the Greek word identified as #4521. Copy it then paste it into the search field. You will get 11 entries not 54.
Now you will find that this Greek word 'sabbatwn' is often mistranslated as ‘week’. It is properly translated as a plural word only once, Luke 4:16.
Thayer’s Lexicon identifies the last two letters, ‘wn’, as making it a plural word.
There is a word often translated as a plural, sabbaths, 'sabbasin'. If you do a word search of this you will get 14 entries.
The word ‘sabbaton’ only appears 14 times even though it is the word defined in Strong’s #4521.
I would hope that you would question not only what I tell you but also question your church. Question yourself. If you question and are willing to put aside pride you will find a whole new world in God’s word.
I can’t repeat enough how much I missed because my pride kept me from God’s truths.
I pray that God will give me the eyes to see and the ears to hear. Because if He doesn’t then I cannot know the truth.

Luke 24:45  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

If you know of any way to explain Matthew 28:1 and all of the other passages dealing with this event I would like to know the explanation.
 
Matthew 28:1 And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre,       Young’s Literal Translation

Matthew 28:1 But late in the sabbaths, at the dawning into the first of the sabbaths, Mary the Magdalene and the other Mary came to gaze upon the grave.       Green’s Literal Translation

I find it very unusual that none of our popular bible got this right. Perhaps God allowed this for His own purpose:

2 Thessalonians 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

God changed the sabbath day and if you do not follow the new sabbath then you are not keeping Gods commandment.    
The SDA church was founded by a woman who had a vision.
A woman is not to teach or have authority over men concerning spiritual things.

1 Timothy 2:12  But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
 

 
 

     
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Luke 24:45  Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Petro
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« Reply #74 on: August 31, 2003, 12:10:33 AM »

Left Coast,

Thanks for the info.

There was one other thing that need sto be said, here.

The Sabbath is mentioned in the book of Acts only in connection with the Jews, together with the rest of the NT, except for two places (Col2:16 and Heb 4:4)

In both of these passages the seventh day Sabbath is explained to be, not a day to be observed by Christians, but a type of the present rest into which the believer will enter when "he also ceases from his own works" and "trusts Christ."

It is clear in Romans 10, that "Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

Gentiles where never expected to keep the Mosaic Law, since we (I am a gentile), were outside the promises of God;

...aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:  (Eph 2:12)

It is clear that anyone who wants to keep the Sabath, still remains in sin, since they have not entered in rest in Jesus, as they labor to keep the Law, yet; the scriptures are clear;

That Jesus is the end to the law, to everyone who believes, since He;

............he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; (Eph 2:14-15)

And for this reason all Christians, live unto another law; the law of FAITH (Rom 3:26-27)

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Rom 3:28)


[bFor sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
(Rom 6:14)

Rom 8
8:1  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3  For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4  That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5  For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7  Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8  So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10  And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11  But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12  Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13  For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.


So, here is a warning to them that insist that the Sabath must be kept, listen carefully;


For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 3:5-8

You think, you, need to keep the law, (evidenced by insisting the sabbath must be observed in order to be saved),  however according to verse 7, above which speaks of you, and states clearly that you are carnally minded, and this is emnity against God, because you refuse to subject yourself to the law of God (the Law of Faith, which is a higher Law, than the Law of Sin and Death) by virtue of Jesus's better sacrifice..

This idea is a stumbling block to you and others, besides you teach a faith-works gosple.  Which will bring on death.

You need to repent, and cease your carnal teachings.

Petro
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