author Sower
So why make such statements such as you have made, to deceive. It is better to hold thy peace.
The great deception is that a mere mortal, a saved sinner -John Calvin -- could put God into a box called "Reformed theology".Bible truth is plain, but the workings of God upon human hearts are mysterious and cannot be boiled down to five points or fifty points. This is what Scripture declares:
And the times of this ignorance God winked at, but now commandeth ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT (Acts 17:30).
If
(1) God commands
all men
(2) God commands
all men
everywhere(3) God is not willing that
any should perish
(4) but that
all should come to repentance
(5) God would have
all men be saved
(6) And come to a knowledge of the truth
(7) God says "Ho,
every one that thirsteth, Come"
(
God says "Look unto me
all the ends of the earth and be saved"
(9) God says "
Whosoever will let him take of the water of life freely"
On what grounds can any man controvert this invitation with the false doctrine of limited atonement? Unless you answer this question satisfactorily for everyone, none of the rest of your questions matter.
[/quoter]
Sower, you are slippery.
The points you make above are Gods will for mankind, Gods says, God Commands, God desires, no argument with these.
But you whiz against the wind on this one, speaking of JW's, your argujments remind me of, them, when one starts to pin them down, they change the subject.
Concerning Calvinism;
You argue against all the points, without considering what each point really proposes, and when asked tough questions, you jump to the next point without resolving the previous point.
Your arguments, are based on a distorted view of what Calvin taught, and you assume that the 5 points of Calvinism are "before the fact", while the case has been plainly made, that both sides have proposed the points as a summation of what the scriptures actually teach concerning these things, according to the views of these two camps.
One not only has been rejected, but deemed heretical in their stance, if you say, in rejecting the point of election (another gospel) I presume you align yourself with the heretics, on it.
And of course, like all bias individuals, you view what you presume to be so, in a different light.
Your attention is invited to Reply #3, on the Theology/Calvinism TULIP- thread ;
http://forums.christiansunite.com/index.php?board=3;action=display;threadid=51;start=0You make this claim on 4/15/03:
"Total Depravity" which according to Calvinists
means that no one can respond to the Gospel unless they are made to respond by the Holy Spirit because they are one of the Elect.
(notice I have emboldened the lie, you inserted in your statement)
Just like a false teacher, you have taken a biblical truth and inserted a lie.
Calvin taught plainly, that every sinner must believe first before he can be saved (sealed by the Spirit of Promise), those who believe and are saved, are revealed as the elect. Of course there is more to this doctrinal point, but in summation the point of the acronym designated by the letter T, It is accurate to state, "the elect are saved", and ultimately when all is said and done, one can safely state "
only all the elect are saved.
Calvinism's Uncoditional Election, is not based on God's foreknowledge. While Conditional Election (the Arminian position) is rooted in predestination being God's foreknowledge, the mere definition of Grace, refutes this very thought.
I doubt you even can grasp this.
Again in Reply #2, of this thread, you posted the following:
"Those Calvinists who genuinely believe, repent, and receive Christ must know that they are saved.
However, TULIP does distort everything, and the focus shifts from God's marvelous, infinite grace, goodness and mercy to His sovereignty and election of some to salvation and others to damnation. This, in my estimation,
is another gospel."
How absurd, your statement, together with this last one.
These, for sure reveals to me you are misinformed and as I said before, you are not qualified to speak about the subject of what John Calvin taught, you know nothing at all of the principles which he taught concerning these doctrines.
God while speaking to spiritual Israel, says;
Isa 43
4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will
I give men for thee, and people for thy life.
Rom 9
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
I suppose you would argue, these verses are not speaking about Gods sovereignty??
I know you and the camp you represent, can't stand God being Sovereign over his creation, and this is the reason, why you reject these biblical truths, you make yourself sovereign, and would probaly even argue man's free will is equal to God's sovereign will, but the worst thing is that in order to give your point credibility, you attack the teachings of a real man of God.
I say engage your brain, before opening mouth, on the other hand I do not have to answer any questions satisfactorily to any of these points, they speak for themselves, all any honest individual has to do is take the time to familiarize himself with what is REALLY taught, before jumping to conclusions, and making wild assertions, this is why you all have no credibility.
Blessing,
Petro
PS I am not in total agreement with the manner in which the points are articulated, but I understand perfectly what the teachings delineate,................. you don't.. and I wouldn't describe myself a staunch Calvinist.
