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Paul2
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« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2003, 09:11:44 PM »

    Can anyone give me the name of one righteous person in works and deeds. Is there a person alive who pleases God and does not commit sin alive on earth now? I don't believe there is one righteous person alive on earth who pleases God in their own merit. There is not one true righteous sinless person on their own merit alive. No man other than Jesus has kept the law, no not one. There is not a person alive who truely, flawlessly keeps the law. We all sin, every single human with breath in his lungs sins.

    There is not a person on earth who deserves Heaven, no not one. It is by grace we are saved. For those of you who believe by keeping God's commandments you "EARN" to go to heaven, what will happen the next time you sin.

    I don't believe theres a person alive that doesn't sin daily.
God has a perfect high standard, perfection. Anything less is unacceptable. You never lie? NEVER? LIAR!

     Let me know when you think you've lived a day without sinning. To go a day without sinning you'd have to surrender every thought to God. Every thought that crosses your mind would have to be in the will of God. You would be a vessel surrendering all free will to the will of God. I doubt theres a person alive that has been able to master the act of total submission.

     I know I fall so far short its scary. I don't deserve heaven but I sure deserve the lake of fire. Thank God for Grace and Jesus.
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Wreck N Sow
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« Reply #31 on: August 05, 2003, 09:24:02 PM »

Oh i see now
If you try to obey God, to walk after the Spirit, and fail, HE will throw you in the lake of fire. But if you totally ignore HIS WORD and walk your own path, whatever that may be, then and only then does the grace of GOD go to work. WOW, no one ever put it that way before(except a4c, and others which practice iniquity)
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« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2003, 10:34:11 PM »

Oklahoma Howdy to Paul2,

You have described the majesty of God's Grace. Yes, we all sin, regardless of how hard we may try. God knew this, so HE made provision for HIS children to pray, confess their sins, and ask for forgiveness. Thanks be unto God for HIS unspeakable GIFT. Those who deny that Jesus is the ONLY way, the truth, and the life will have a rude awakening one day.

In Christ.
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« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2003, 04:55:27 AM »

Those who deny that Jesus is the ONLY way, the truth, and the life will have a rude awakening one day.

Amen

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« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2003, 08:06:41 AM »

Oh i see now
If you try to obey God, to walk after the Spirit, and fail, HE will throw you in the lake of fire. But if you totally ignore HIS WORD and walk your own path, whatever that may be, then and only then does the grace of GOD go to work. WOW, no one ever put it that way before(except a4c, and others which practice iniquity)

Hello Wreck,

You're on a roll, but I hate to tell you this, IT'S DOWNHILL!

Romans 3:26  To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 3:27  Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Romans 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 4:2  For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Romans 4:3  For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Romans 4:4  Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Romans 4:5  But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 4:6  Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Romans 11:5  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Romans 11:6  And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Galatians 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:20  I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Galatians 2:21  I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:2  This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:3  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
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Paul2
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« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2003, 12:20:15 PM »

Oh i see now
If you try to obey God, to walk after the Spirit, and fail, HE will throw you in the lake of fire. But if you totally ignore HIS WORD and walk your own path, whatever that may be, then and only then does the grace of GOD go to work. WOW, no one ever put it that way before(except a4c, and others which practice iniquity)

Hello Wreck,

You're on a roll, but I hate to tell you this, IT'S DOWNHILL!

Romans 3:26  To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Romans 3:27  Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Romans 3:28  Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 4:2  For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Romans 4:3  For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Romans 4:4  Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Romans 4:5  But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Romans 4:6  Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Romans 11:5  Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Romans 11:6  And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Galatians 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:20  I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Galatians 2:21  I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Galatians 3:2  This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Galatians 3:3  Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


    Which part of the above verses don't you understand?

     It boggles my mind that the same words I can understand so clearly, seem to blind and confuse so many!

    You made your case blackeyedpeas, some refuse to believe the Gospel as written. They almost seem to perfer Moses and the Law than Jesus and Grace. I wonder if they have ever had a hotdog? The Apostle Paul would eat a hotdog, if it took that to get you to listen to the gospel with a teachable spirit.

                                                              Paul2

                                                       
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« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2003, 09:08:57 PM »


     It boggles my mind that the same words I can understand so clearly, seem to blind and confuse so many!

    You made your case blackeyedpeas, some refuse to believe the Gospel as written. They almost seem to perfer Moses and the Law than Jesus and Grace. I wonder if they have ever had a hotdog? The Apostle Paul would eat a hotdog, if it took that to get you to listen to the gospel with a teachable spirit.

                                                              Paul2

                                                       

Oklahoma Howdy to Paul2,

It is a real shame to ignore and deny the Gospel of God's Grace. The joy of serving our Lord and Saviour is in HIS LOVE AND GRACE, not the law. Some would say that we "Gospel of God's Grace" types live in darkness and sin, but the opposite is true. Some would also say that we do nothing for God because of our beliefs, but the opposite is also true. We are FREE to do as much as we wish, and it is all done from a grateful heart instead of fear.

In fact, HIS GRACE AND LOVE is the only GOSPEL. Thanks be unto God for HIS unspeakable GIFT.

In Christ,

Tom
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« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2003, 03:34:31 PM »


     It boggles my mind that the same words I can understand so clearly, seem to blind and confuse so many!

    You made your case blackeyedpeas, some refuse to believe the Gospel as written. They almost seem to perfer Moses and the Law than Jesus and Grace. I wonder if they have ever had a hotdog? The Apostle Paul would eat a hotdog, if it took that to get you to listen to the gospel with a teachable spirit.

                                                              Paul2

                                                       

Oklahoma Howdy to Paul2,

It is a real shame to ignore and deny the Gospel of God's Grace. The joy of serving our Lord and Saviour is in HIS LOVE AND GRACE, not the law. Some would say that we "Gospel of God's Grace" types live in darkness and sin, but the opposite is true. Some would also say that we do nothing for God because of our beliefs, but the opposite is also true. We are FREE to do as much as we wish, and it is all done from a grateful heart instead of fear.

In fact, HIS GRACE AND LOVE is the only GOSPEL. Thanks be unto God for HIS unspeakable GIFT.

In Christ,

Tom

AAAAAAAAMEN Brother
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« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2003, 08:00:53 PM »


     It boggles my mind that the same words I can understand so clearly, seem to blind and confuse so many!

    You made your case blackeyedpeas, some refuse to believe the Gospel as written. They almost seem to perfer Moses and the Law than Jesus and Grace. I wonder if they have ever had a hotdog? The Apostle Paul would eat a hotdog, if it took that to get you to listen to the gospel with a teachable spirit.

                                                              Paul2

                                                       

Oklahoma Howdy to Paul2,

It is a real shame to ignore and deny the Gospel of God's Grace. The joy of serving our Lord and Saviour is in HIS LOVE AND GRACE, not the law. Some would say that we "Gospel of God's Grace" types live in darkness and sin, but the opposite is true. Some would also say that we do nothing for God because of our beliefs, but the opposite is also true. We are FREE to do as much as we wish, and it is all done from a grateful heart instead of fear.

In fact, HIS GRACE AND LOVE is the only GOSPEL. Thanks be unto God for HIS unspeakable GIFT.

In Christ,

Tom

The perfect law of liberty, not the law given to Moses.

In this perfect law of liberty one must be a doer of the word.
He will be blessed in his deeds.


James 1: 22.  But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
 23.  For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
 24.  For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
 25.  But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.


This was addressed to Jame's brethren, the twelve tribes, scattered abroad. It can be infered from this that James is addressing brethren in Christ. Those that have already come to Christ in faith and are such as should be saved.

James 1:1.  James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
 2.  My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

James is admonishing them to be not hearers of the word only, but doers. It is continuing in the perfect law of liberty.
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« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2003, 08:35:08 PM »


James is admonishing them to be not hearers of the word only, but doers. It is continuing in the perfect law of liberty.

Oklahoma Howdy to Ollie,

There are many beautiful portions of Scripture that instruct believers in the way of greater fellowship with our Lord and Saviour and other believers. It's NOT ironic that this greater fellowship results in joy and peace, even in times of difficulty.

In Christ,
Tom
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« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2003, 03:55:52 AM »


James is admonishing them to be not hearers of the word only, but doers. It is continuing in the perfect law of liberty.

Oklahoma Howdy to Ollie,

There are many beautiful portions of Scripture that instruct believers in the way of greater fellowship with our Lord and Saviour and other believers. It's NOT ironic that this greater fellowship results in joy and peace, even in times of difficulty.

In Christ,
Tom

YES!!! Amen

Brother Love Smiley
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« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2003, 01:12:06 PM »

Repentance was preached to Israel a good ways into the book of Acts- such as 2:38 and 3:19. Even the Jerusalem Council meeting of Acts 15 contained some elements of Jewish law.

The gospel of the grace of God was entrusted to Paul and he even called it "his gospel."

aw
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« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2003, 01:53:00 PM »

Repentance was preached to Israel a good ways into the book of Acts- such as 2:38 and 3:19. Even the Jerusalem Council meeting of Acts 15 contained some elements of Jewish law.

The gospel of the grace of God was entrusted to Paul and he even called it "his gospel."

aw

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The Crusader
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« Reply #43 on: January 08, 2004, 05:29:20 AM »

Just A Sample - From Law To Grace:

Romans 5:12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:  13: For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.  14: Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.  15: But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.  16: And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.  17: For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.  18: Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.  19: For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Colossians 2:8  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.  9: For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10: And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:  11: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:  12: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.  13: And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;  14: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;  15: And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.  16: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:  17: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Romans 13:8  Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.  9: For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.  10: Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

==========

Much of the law regarded ceremonial rituals that represented just a "SHADOW" of things to come. An example of many ceremonial rituals involved the keeping of the Sabbath under the Law. The Sabbath was much more than a single day each week which was to be observed as a day of rest and worship. The Sabbath was a time of worship and sacrifice for atonement, the forgiveness of sins. The Sabbath also strictly referred to 7th Month Sabbath, 7th Year Sabbath, the Feast of Trumpets Sabbath, the Feast of Tabernacles Sabbath, the Feast of Weeks Sabbath, the Feast of Pentecost Sabbath, and other Holy Days. Specifically, the Sabbath was a day to seek atonement (forgiveness), and the methods and types of sacrifice were strictly defined. There were drink offerings, burnt offerings, first fruits of labor offerings, and other ceremonial rituals which were strictly defined. As an example, burnt offerings and the blowing of trumpets was required on the 7th Month Sabbath. The only fires allowed on the Sabbath were to be used specifically to offer burnt offerings to God for atonement. Domestic fires and other types of fire were not allowed. The penalty for other such fires was DEATH. There were also strictly and harshly defined methods the High Priests were to observe in the performance of the ceremonies and rituals. The penalties for variation were many times DEATH.

The "SHADOW" I mentioned above that refers to ceremonies and rituals under the law is CHRIST. CHRIST FULFILLED THE LAW AND BECAME ATONEMENT FOR THOSE WHO WOULD ACCEPT HIM AS LORD AND SAVIOUR OF THEIR LIFE. Christ nailed to a cross and HIS BLOOD was the blotting out of ordinances and forgiveness of sin. God's children didn't need High Priests to act on their behalf, as they could pray and seek forgiveness 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Rest and fellowship in and with CHRIST can be continual. HIS BLOOD also meant the indwelling of the HOLY SPIRIT in the heart of each child of GOD. Not only were the children of God being held and preserved IN CHRIST, but CHRIST THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT IS IN THEM. The child of God is a HIGH PRIEST, when compared with the Law, and the child of God IS A TEMPLE FOR THE HOLY SPIRIT.

CHRIST IS REALITY AND SUBSTANCE, not just a shadow. All of the ceremonies, rituals, and offerings under the law are nothing compared to the BLOOD OF JESUS. The sacrifices under the law offered temporary atonement, BUT THE BLOOD OF CHRIST IS ETERNAL. CHRIST did release us from the bondage of the Law and HIS BLOOD is an undeserved and unearned GIFT FROM GOD, HIS GRACE. The Gospel of God's Grace is the ONE GOSPEL and the ONLY GOSPEL. Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable GIFT, JESUS CHRIST, OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR.

Here is a question:  Do I keep, honor, and obey the Sabbath if:  (1) I am in Christ, (2) The Holy Spirit is in me, (3) I fellowship daily with HIM, (4) I confess my sins and pray for forgiveness. The answer is, "YES!" I seek forgiveness through the BLOOD OF JESUS, not by ceremonies, rituals, drink offerings, and burnt offerings. Jesus is the PERFECT OFFERING FOR ETERNAL ATONEMENT.

I agree

The Crusader
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