Reformation Rumblings

[Brother Love]

Reformation Rumblings
BUFF SCOTT, JR.
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Questions For Today
 
    Q.  Evangelical theologians are now discussing (and debating) the nature of Gods knowledge of the future.  These theological debates have enormous implications for piety and pastoral care especially how we respond to the tragedies that invade our lives.  Here are some of the questions they are asking and debating.  Tell us what you think.---Glenda.<>
 
    1)  Does God change his mind?  2)  Does he ever change it in response to our prayers?  3)  How do Bible statements that God ordains the future, and alters His plans, relate to each other?  4)  Does God know your next move whether it&#146;s a life-changing decision or a routine choice at the grocery store?  5)  And if He really knows it all, are we truly free?  6)  Does God know the future?  7)  Does he know it precisely or just with a high degree of probability?    Was God taking a risk in making the human race?  9)  If God doesn't know the future, how do we make sense of Bible prophecy?  10)  And if God doesnt know the future, what are we to make of the Bibles teaching that those whom God foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son?
 
    A.  Yes to Number 1.  Abraham changed Gods mind (Gen. 19).  Yes to Number 2.  One of Israels kings, Hezekiah,  was told by the prophet Isaiah to get his house in order because his death was near.  He turned his face to the wall and wept bitterly and pleaded with God to allow him to live longer.  God gave him 15 additional years (2 Kings 20).  Number 3:  God ordains the future but retains the prerogative to alter it.  He ordained that Sodom and Gomorrah and everyone in it be destroyed.  He altered His plans when Abraham pleaded with him.  Not everone was destroyed.  Lot, his wife, and two daughters were spared.
 
    Yes and no to Number 4.  He can if He so chooses.  He may just leave your trip to the grocery store to natural causes.  Yes to Number 5.  I know my wife like the back of my hand.  Yet she is free to make independent choices.  Yes to Number 6.  Yes to Number 7.  No to Number 8.  Number 9:  He knows the future.  Same answer to Number 10.      
 
    I beg you to be cautious about placing any confidence in the findings of theologians and the special clergy.  It is largely because of them that the Christian community is cluttered with chaos and division.<>
 
    Q.  &#147;Do you believe one must understand what the church is prior to baptism?---Roger.<>
 
    A.  Absolutely not!  He will know about Gods scheme of redemption.  That information alone will save him, not a bunch of theological or ecclesiastical side dishes.  We dare not saddle him with our Church of Christ or Baptist Church creeds.   Jesus saves him, not churches---not even the non-instrumental music Church of Christ!   Once he is saved, he automatically becomes part of the one body of believers.
 
    Q. Do you believe one must understand that the Church and the Kingdom are the same prior to baptism?---Same Questioner.
 
    A. Your so-called church  has never been the same as God&#146;s kingdom or reign.  And that is because Jesus did not found a church---any church.  He founded a body of believers, a new Israel or community.  That one body and the kingdom (reign) are one and the same.  Again, as noted above, we dare not saddle him with our Church creeds.  A pinnacle of knowledge is not required for a man to experience the new birth.

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Are sexual perversions inborn?  To find out, click on www.mindspring.com/~renewal/Born.html .  This  new feature has been added to my Web site.---Buff.

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     To connect to my Web site, click on < www.mindspring.com/~renewal >  Until next time, take care and God bless.&#151;Buff.
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    To connect to Grace Centered Magazine for some interesting reading, click on www.gcmagazine.net .

Brother Love

P.S. What Do You Think?

[Ambassador4Christ]

Some helpful information. Some of his teachings are ok.  

[Ralph]

Buff Scott/Reformation rumblings: God does not change His mind, nor does He change either it or His decree in response to prayer. The two texts the person who thinks He does are both concerning intercession-Abraham's plea for Sodom and Hezikiah concerning his illness- In Isaiah 59:15-17 we see God
looking for an intercessor among men. We see the same message in Ezek. 36:35-37 where God says that He is going to
do a certain thing yet at the same time, He will have the house of Israel ask Him for it. Lesson: God works thru intercessory prayer. Abraham dealt with God concerning Sodom and discovereed God's will concerning the number He would be willing to spare Sodom for. God never SAID nor altered His mind in regard to Sodom. Hezekiah had not yet
become father to Manasseh. Manesseh was in the Messianic line, so God never intended for Hezekiah to die. He was only stirring Hezekiah up to prayer over a sickness which would have killed him--which God never intended to happen to him because Manasseh wasn't born till 3 years later. When God said He would add 15 years, that was only in regard to Hezikiah's understanding--15 years more than he would have lived if the sickness had been fatal, which God did not intend.

[Ralph]

  Reformation Rumblings: Nowhere does the Bible teach (or leave room for the idea)that God alters His plans, as you say.
"The counsel of the Lord stands forever, the plans of His heart to all generations."Ps 33:11; "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand and I will do all my pleasure."Isa.46:10; "There are many plans in a man's heart, nevertheless, the counsel of the LORD shall stand." "I am the LORD. I change not. Therefore you sons of Jacob are not consumed." Any interpretation of Scripture which does not
agree with (or conflicts with) the above texts is in error. The error is not in Scripture, but in man's understanding of Scripture.

[Ralph]

  Concerning questions 4 and 5: Does He know our evcery step? Ps 139 says,Yes. He does. Are we truly free, then? Yes, of course we are. BUT--that freedom does not extend to an ability to frustrate ANY of God's purposes--"There are many plans in a man's heart. Nevertheless, the LORD'S counsel--that shall stand." Prov.19:21 When man's aims conflict with God's purpose on any matter, God frustrates man's efforts. WELL, DUH!! who did we THINK would win???
Can a momentary creature frustrate any eternal purpose?
"The LORD brings the counsel of  the nations to nothing. He makes the plans of the peoples of no effect. The counsel of the Lord stands forever, the plans of His heart to all generations." Ps.33:10,11.

[Ralph]

  concerning questions 6/7 "Yes, God knows the future
thoroughly because His decree covers it thouroughly. "Known unto God are all His works from the foundation of the world."  

[Ralph]

  Under questions A., Number 3, you assert some things for which you have absolutely neither Scripture text nor scriptural
principle for support. Nowhere in the Bible did God "ordain," as you say, that all in Sodom would die. Abraham, in his human
reasonings might have feared so, but man's fears do NOT
constitute God's ordaining of something. It the same lines, you make other false statements concerning what transpired
concerning Sodom, statements for which you offer no Scripture text as support. I suggest you either prove your statements by Scripture, or retract them.

[Brother Love]

Some helpful information. Some of his teachings are ok.  

I agree, I reall dont agree with him on a lot of issues.

Brother Love

[Brother Love]

Thanks for all five of your posts Ralph

Grace & Peace

Brother Love

[Ralph]

  Thanks, Brother Love. I enjoy your posts also. Enter in with me concerning Doug Dodd's post on "is it right." My response to him on question #8 is on page 5. Thanks again.

[John the Baptist]

Is this what God has in mind for one to have a reformmation??
There is much 'excitement' of some sort, at times perhaps? yet, what reformatory [work] does that lead to??

And does God know the end from the beginning is a stupid question for a reformatory Christians, unless one is seen in Heb. 5's class of cradle/roll!

Glad that 'Love' doesn't agree with him on a lot of issues! (nor/Ralph)

---John

[ollie]

 Leviticus 26:13.  "I am the Lord your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt,..........."


  Leviticus 26:23.  And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;
 24.  Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.


 Hebrews 9:1.  Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
 2.  For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
 3.  And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
 4.  Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
 5.  And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
 6.  Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
 7.  But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
 8.  The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
 9.  Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
 10.  Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
 11.  But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
 12.  Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.


Some reformation rumblings from God's word.

[John the Baptist]

Leviticus 26:13.  "I am the Lord your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt,..........."


  Leviticus 26:23.  And if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me;
 24.  Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet seven times for your sins.


 Hebrews 9:1.  Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
 2.  For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
 3.  And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;


************
John here, Ollie: (Good post, thanks! )
This above Vail is what went rent from top to bottom & the way was now for Christ to do the last yearly faze of His work in heaven itself. [Inside of the Most Holy Place]. OK?

Lev. 16:14 tells of the blood being sprinkled upon the 'Mercy Seat seven times'. Israel had a 27-34 AD probationary time period as a denomination. And 1 Peter 4:17 tells us that Judgement MUST FIRST BEGINE AT THE HOUSE OF GOD. From Christ's rejected VIRGIN denomination came a 'remnant' of True Israel.

See Christ's command in Matt. 10:5-6. And their DESOLATION of Christ, in Matt. 23:38.

Now: we see Rev. 12:17's FINAL DENOMINATION with THREE identifying marks! First, they are the remnant of Spiritual Jews of Rom. 2. A REMNANT of the one Virgin denomination. (Eph. 4:5) Then we see that they KEEP the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD BY THE PROVISIONS GIVEN BY OUR MASTER! (again Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9) And next we SEE THAT THEY [HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST]! And if one reads 2 Cor. 3:3 correctly, they will see that the testimony of the Master IS HIS 'LETTER' OR CHARACTER, OR TRANSCRIPT OF HIS CHARACTER, (Epistle!) No longer written in the Tables of stone, but RE/CREATED IN THE BORN AGAIN ONE MIND AND HEART! Truely it is now that one can do as He commands, "IF YE LOVE ME KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS" Try Isa. 42:21 for one purpose of Christ's work!

Now, what was inside of the MOST HOLY PLACE? There is the Ark of God. (as your post revealed) Rev. 11:19 tells of Ark of His testament. The Ark contained God's Testament) The Royal Law of God, that James 2:8-12's tells us is to be our STANDARD of Judgement. Over it is the MERCY SEAT & the two covering Cherubs. Luciffer's old job, huh. He violated the law inside the Ark to the point of REBELLION! See John 5:16-17.

And in Rev. 22:8-10 were see that ALL the holy Angels 'keep the sayings of this book'. And the rebuke to John was a violation from the [first table] of God's ten commandments.

And Christ is our High Priest before the Ark of God in His Throne room in heaven interceeding for us! Why do we need a High Priest? Because we sin & break the law of God. And when we do it KNOWINGLY? We again, come under the condenmation of willful dis/obedience. We are to MATURE in the OTHER DIRECTION by the Provisions GIVEN us! Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9. And if rebellion becomes MATURE, it is the FINISHED END, as was Cain & Luciffer's, see James 1:15's Mature ending .

Yet the END is our freedom of choice! Read of the WHOLE DUTY OF MAN in Eccl. 12:13-14!

Very good material! It is no short wonder why the 'inspired Word of God states in Psalms 77:13, that.. "HIS WAY IS IN THE SANCTURY'! Any doctrine can be tested by this Sanctuary Truth! See Psalms 73:12 & then verse 16-17 for Davids questions of what happenes to the wicked? They became 'ashes'! "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they [SHALL BECOME ASHES] UNDER THE SOLES OF YOUR FEET IN THE DAY THAT I DO THIS SAYEST THE LORD." Mal. 4:3. (another prophet!)

Tired! Had a long day, hope you overlook the spelling? If the verses are wrong any place? & you are not familar with them, let me know. And 'i' realize friend, that this material is material that you seem to be very familar with!  

----John
*******
 

 4.  Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
 5.  And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
 6.  Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
 7.  But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
 8.  The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
 9.  Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
 10.  Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
 11.  But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
 12.  Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.


Some reformation rumblings from God's word.

[Ralph]

  Some who post concerning reformation rumblings say things which indicate that they don't understand that the term "Reformation" is a reference to the faith and doctrine held by the protestant "reformers" as they were breaking away from the Roman catholic church during the time of history that is known as "the reformation," and is not related to those few instances of that word occuring in Scripture.