"The Bible is not the inspired and inerrant word of God"

[brandplucked]

BEP posted this site:
For Numerous Articles & Links:
http://www.kjvonly.org/

This website is dedicated to the defense of the Bible as originally  written, against the flood of falsehood propagated  by King James Onlyism."

Pea, I have seen this site before and I recognize many of the names and have read quite a few of their articles.  I have even debated with Rick Norris online many times at various sites, and I have responded to a lot of Doug Kutilek's articles.

NOT ONE of those people believe The Bible IS now the inerrant, inspired, complete word of God - not one of them.

They are among "the originals only" crowd.  It is so funny to see these "scholars" trying to defend "the originals only" when the Bible itself never even mentions "the originals".

Don't get me wrong on this.  I too believe the originals WERE (not ARE) inspired, but no person alive today has ever seen one word from "the originals". They do not exist and everybody knows this.

So, these fellas take a book (the Bible, any bible) that they do not believe is the inerrant word of God, and use a couple verses out of it to try to prove that the originals were inspired.  Now, think about it.  Does this make sense?  Yet, they deny what this Book says about itself, and don't believe that God in fact preserved His words in a Book here on this earth till heaven and earth pass away.  Doesn't this strike you as a bit inconsistent and hypocritical?

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear".

Will K

[JudgeNot]

Hi Judge not, I'm afraid you are off in the land of mysticism and make believe with your idea that "the word of God" was and always will be in our hearts, and particularly with the last statement about "the written Word's ability to awaken the Word that is already a seed in each man's heart."

  Wait 'till my wife hears that I'm in the "land of mysticism".      What a hoot!  

JN, this is totally against the sound doctrine of the Bible, and it is New Age Mysticism.  There is no "seed" within each man's heart to begin with.  There is no divine spark that needs to be awakened.

 I disagree with your opinion.

That's okay, gotcha104 - nothing you say makes any sense at all to me, either - which tells me we are on a level playing field.  The blind teaching the deaf sign language?    

God bless - thanks for the entertainment.  
JN

[cris]

gotcha104 says

"when the bible never even mentions the "the originals".

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear".

Will K

Yea it does.  John said, "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God."

[JudgeNot]

Good point, fellow person in Christ cris.  

gotcha104 - back to your notion that believing

There is no "seed" within each man's heart to begin with.  There is no divine spark that needs to be awakened.

So - you don't believe we are created in His image, and if we are, it's purely physical?  
Now - I'm totally mystified by that.      

God bless,
JN

[Reba]

The KJV of the bible is not inerrant.

To save time fill in the blank with any version...



The ________ of the bible is not inerrant.

[cris]

Good point, fellow person in Christ cris.  

gotcha104 - back to your notion that believing

There is no "seed" within each man's heart to begin with.  There is no divine spark that needs to be awakened.

So - you don't believe we are created in His image, and if we are, it's purely physical?  
Now - I'm totally mystified by that.      

God bless,
JN

Hi there JN.......fellow person in Christ (hehe).  You can just call me sibling (sib for short if ya want).

I was really just making a yolk.  Now I have it all over my face.  Boo, boo, bad joke.

 

[Reba]

I find this statment to be very noble.

No cause therefore why the word translated should be denied to be the word, or forbidden to be current, notwithstanding that some imperfections and blemishes may be noted in the setting forth of it.

[cris]

How's this?  God's words are inerrant.  God's spoken word's are in the bible, all versions.

This should settle it!

[nChrist]

gotcha104,

The preserved and perfect Bible is in Hebrew and Greek primarily, not English. Almighty God doesn't need countless revisions before HE gets it right.

God never promised to put a perfect and preserved Bible in the hands of every person on earth in every language and variation of language.

I have a couple more questions for you since you still don't have a clue about what you are doing to harm Christianity. I won't ask the hardest questions because I like the KJV and think it is an excellent translation. I don't wish to do any harm to the work of God with any translation of the Holy Bible. I really think that you should pray about this same issue.

Is there some reason why the number of revisions of the KJV are almost impossible to count?

There were so many different versions out at the same time during one period that they had a committee meet for the purpose of standardizing it.

Does this really sound like the KJV is the perfect and preserved Holy Bible?

Is and was the KJV a Catholic Bible?

I'm fully aware that the 1611 KJV and a large number of KJV revisions were published with the Apocrypha.

Is the Apocrypha part of the perfect and preserved Holy Bible?

If you think the Apocrypha is part of the perfect and preserved Holy Bible, would you please list the authority for that opinion?

I worship Jesus Christ - not King James, and there are many reasons for that. If the King James Bible starts to resemble an idol, I'll quickly change to one of several other excellent translations. It does appear that is becoming the case with many people. If I do change, I'll really only miss some of my Hebrew and Greek study tools that are specifically designed for the KJV. However, some of the better translations have been and are being adapted for use by those same study tools. Maybe it won't be a problem at all, and I'll get rid of what many people are making an idol of.

I do appreciate you bringing this matter to my attention. After looking at this issue pretty hard, I find there are other translations that are actually superior to the KJV in some regards. So, thanks.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Proverbs 2:6  For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding.

[Soldier4Christ]

Something to think about and really research here. There is a difference between scripture and the inerrant word of God. Some of the inerrant word of God is contained within scripture.

If the KJV is perfect then why is it that many scriptures that were used by the prophets, apostles and Jesus and referenced in the KJV is not to be found anywhere today? They used these scriptures for teaching yet many are not available for us now. Here we have another problem. One of these books referred to in the Bible is the Book of Enoch. There are two different versions of the Book of Enoch that have been found. Do we use this book and if so which one? Another book mentioned is the Book of Jasher, yet the only version of this book available does not agree with any of the Bibles we have today.

This argument sounds very much like the argument of the law. Where is the law today? Many say that it is still a written law. Others say that it was done away with. The Bible tells us it is written in the fleshy tables of our hearts.

Now I am not saying that scripture is not important. It is very highly important as we see in:  2Ti 3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Here though we must be carefull what we consider as scripture. There are many books out today that are called "The Holy Bible" that in no way resembles either the KJV, NIV, NASB or others mentioned. There are also many old manuscripts that are also considered scripture that in no way resemble the teachings of Jesus Christ.

With all this information, all these arguments and confusion in regards to this we are chasing away many a person from the saving grace of God. For if we, who are Christians, cannot agree on this then we are considered unknowing fools in their eyes. How do we convince anyone that the saving grace of God is real when Christians cannot agree on such a subject as this?

If we are to use scripture for proper doctrine, for proper reproof, for proper correction and for true instruction in righteousness should we then use many versions that do not agree with each other? Should we omit those that may help a person better understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Should we throw out the most complete version because it is hard to understand?

God is not the author of confusion, yet all this creates and is confusion.


Heb 5:12  For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
Heb 5:13  For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
Heb 5:14  But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


Should we not be teaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ instead of arguing over words?

Jam 3:16  For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.

[nChrist]

Amen Pastor Roger!!

You are completely correct. We should be teaching and preaching Christ, the Cross, and Salvation. There might only be a short time left.

I see all of this KJV only stuff as a work of the devil. It obviously is since many translations of the Holy Bible contain complete and accurate doctrine. Those who are lost and dying in their sins thirst for the Gospel of the Grace of God. However imperfect our own words might be, we can still give them the GOOD NEWS. Further, the Holy Spirit will help us in our witnessing if we just yield and ask HIM to help us. There might be a day when our Bibles are confiscated, but HIS WORD in our hearts can't be destroyed. NO - I am not hinting that I have the entire translation of any Bible memorized.

Here's what really bothers me about much of this discussion. Christians all over the world witness with and without their Bibles with every language known to man. HINT: We would be wasting our breath to witness in Hebrew and Greek in the vast majority of the world, yet that is the language of the perfect and preserved Holy Bible. Even if we had every Hebrew and Greek word memorized perfectly, it would be an ineffective witness. The lost person would obviously require hearing in their own language. Further, it would be completely unnecessary to witness word for word from whatever Bible translation we were used to using. The power in the witness is the message, and the Holy Spirit helps a willing witness with the message. We all know that the Holy Spirit also draws the lost person with the hearing of God's Word, and faith for the lost comes by such hearing. Is anyone aware of any requirement for any kind of word by word perfection from any translation before the REAL message is transmitted and heard? NO!

I see discussions like this as being discouraging and confusing for every Christian who hears or sees it, especially for those who are babes in Christ or less grounded in God's Word. Much of the discouragement and confusion would be gone if we were simply having a pleasant discussion about various excellent translations of the Holy Bible. That type of discussion could be done in a very positive manner, and it would be encouragement instead of discouragement, and confidence instead of confusion.

I'm positive that the devil loves it when Christians get together and try to discard the works of God and His children designed for God's Glory, the Saving of the lost, and the building up of the Saints. I've prayed about this matter numerous times now, and I won't be party to it.

Lord Willing, I will give God all the Glory, Honor, and Praise and try to put away the things of men that get in the way. That would certainly include King James or any other man that became a hindrance to sharing the Good News and fellowship with other brothers and sisters in Christ. Our focus for fellowship and LORD over our lives is JESUS, not King James. This should be a matter of prayer for every Christian, and every hindrance should be cast aside.

Love In Christ,
Tom

2nd Timothy 2:5  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

[2nd Timothy]

I have been quietly following this thread for a while.  The Word of God is not errant.  Its living, breathing!

1Pe 1:23  Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


Mat 5:18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


Does the KJV contain jotts and tittles?  We know that it doesn't.   Jotts and tittles are used in Hebrew.   Further more, is the law THE word?   The law is only half of the story.   The Word Himself however says....

 
Rev 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.


And just as JN has pointed out....

Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


If I speak a word saying that "God loved the earth so much that He sent His only Son, so that anyone who believes in Him will have everlasting life"   Is this the text of God, or the Word of God?    Is a word spoken, or typed?      

Gods word is intact friends.   His message is living and true, and sitting at the right hand of the father.  We can read about Him in numerous translations.   Sure, there may be paraphrasing, but that Living Word (not the text) is what responds and breaths life into us the moment we believe on Him.


The entire crux of brandplucks argument hinges on this:

God's words are in a BOOK. Consider the following verses: "Now go, write it before them in a table, and NOTE IT IN A BOOK, that it may be for the time to come FOR EVER AND EVER." Isaiah 30:8

"Seek ye out of THE BOOK of the LORD, and READ: no one of these shall fail...for my mouth it hath commanded..." Isaiah 34:16

This is speaking of a particular prophecy, not all the words God has ever spoken.   This is the device from the beginning that you have used to force others to admitt KJV is the only book, or that the word of God is errant.

If this verse meant what you try to make it mean, the same book you worship denys your claim in the end.   God opens BOOK(S) at the last judgment, not just one.   Rev 20:12



I'm happy to say Gods word is infallable praise His name!   Its breathing, living.  KJV, NIV, NASB etc etc....they all speak of the infallable WORD of God.  If KJV ONLY is the only way to truth, we as christians had better start spending our money on language teaching rather than translated bibles.  


Don't worship the text, worship the Author....it is He who IS the Living word forever and ever...A to Z, Jott and tittle, beginning and ending, alpha and omega.   Text did not hang on a cross, the Word that took on flesh did.   Text did not bleed and die, the living word did.  Text, was not ressurected from death, the Living breathing Word of God was.  Text did not fulfill Gods justice on our behalf, The living Word did.  

If you're walking in the spirit, and forgivness of Christ, you are walking in the word of God plain and simple.   King James is not the one who stands at the door and knocks, Jesus is.  Trust me, its all about the author of life, not the text of a king.

Grace and Peace!

[nChrist]

2nd Timothy,

Brother - AMEN AND AMEN!!

Your post was beautiful and it makes me want to sing again:

"Thank you LORD for saving my soul,
"Thank you LORD for making me whole."

Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable GIFT, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour Forever!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 104:34  My meditation of him shall be sweet: I will be glad in the LORD.

[ollie]

BEP posted this site:
For Numerous Articles & Links:
http://www.kjvonly.org/

This website is dedicated to the defense of the Bible as originally  written, against the flood of falsehood propagated  by King James Onlyism."

Pea, I have seen this site before and I recognize many of the names and have read quite a few of their articles.  I have even debated with Rick Norris online many times at various sites, and I have responded to a lot of Doug Kutilek's articles.

NOT ONE of those people believe The Bible IS now the inerrant, inspired, complete word of God - not one of them.

They are among "the originals only" crowd.  It is so funny to see these "scholars" trying to defend "the originals only" when the Bible itself never even mentions "the originals".

Don't get me wrong on this.  I too believe the originals WERE (not ARE) inspired, but no person alive today has ever seen one word from "the originals". They do not exist and everybody knows this.

So, these fellas take a book (the Bible, any bible) that they do not believe is the inerrant word of God, and use a couple verses out of it to try to prove that the originals were inspired.  Now, think about it.  Does this make sense?  Yet, they deny what this Book says about itself, and don't believe that God in fact preserved His words in a Book here on this earth till heaven and earth pass away.  Doesn't this strike you as a bit inconsistent and hypocritical?

"He that hath ears to hear, let him hear".

Will K

"Don't get me wrong on this.  I too believe the originals WERE (not ARE) inspired, but no person alive today has ever seen one word from "the originals". They do not exist and everybody knows this."


This statement seems to deny God and the power of God and His Spirit to deliver His message/will/purpose of salvation through Jesus Christ. to man today, but was only done sometime in the past.


ollie

[ollie]

"The Bible is not the inspired and inerrant word of God"

Where is the evidence for such a statement if the originals are non existent. By what authority is this known? What is there to compare any translation whether such a statement is true.

"Faith is the victory."

Luke 1

 1.  "Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
 2.  Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
 3.  It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
 4.  That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed."

ollie