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Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2003, 02:44:10 PM »

Which Bible Is The Right Bible? Part 3

Last time we demonstrated how the New International Version is a corrupt bible and not to be trusted by BIBLE believing Christians.

Here is another point for you to ponder.

The Greek text from which the NIV comes was produced by a couple of Mary worshiping Catholics by the name of Wescott & Hort.

Wescott & Hort did not believe in salvation by grace but by works according to their own testimonies. They hated Protestants and they hated the Protestant Bible of the Reformation the King James Bible.

None of these truths are hid. For more information we recommend G. Riplinger's book "New Age Bible Versions", which fully documents these truths in detail. By the way, all you "Russelites" (Jehovah Witnesses to the uninformed) out there, look on the inside cover of your "New World Translation" and see where YOUR Greek text came from…. WESCOTT & HORT. If it wasn't so serious it would be funny!!!

The differences are "textual not translational" in nature. This simply means the text from which the NIV was taken is different than the text of the KJB. I don’t know about you but I wouldn’t trust a Bible that leaves out the blood of Christ and omits entire verses. Would you? You may contact us for more information on "manuscript evidence".

 

By Pastor Doug Dodd s.b.g.
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Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2003, 02:47:38 PM »

Are You Tithing Enough?

If you are ONLY giving 10 percent of everything you OWN you are not giving ENOUGH under the CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT made with GOD!!!!

I know most of you sweet wonderful people really want to do what is right so you need to RUN DON"T WALK to your local denominational church and pay that extra 17% REQUIRED in the Old Testament!

Your denominational preacher has been causing you to ROB GOD only collecting 10% of God's money! No wonder you have been having all that trouble!

NOT only that but that 10% you have been giving should not go to the preacher or any other function it belongs to GOD under the Old Testament.

The Old Testament requires a 27% tithe not 10% and the 10% you have been given is going to the wrong person or activity so now you need to pay back another 10% RETROACTIVELY!

Denominationalism might settle for 10% of GOD'S money but I can tell you God will not be happy!

By Pastor Doug Dodd s.b.g.
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« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2003, 02:57:20 PM »

Quote
Quote from: Ambassador
Last time we demonstrated how the New International Version is a corrupt bible and not to be trusted by BIBLE believing Christians.

Well, statements like this don't convince me. I'm not convinced by the implication that if I don't agree with you I don't agree with the Bible, and most others aren't either. What convinces me is to see the technical reasons for both translations, presented by advocates of each, and making a determination based on that.

As for the textual versus the translational issue, you can't separate them. I don't know for a fact that the differences did not stem from translational issues, and as I'm remembering it, the NIV uses older and more reliable manuscripts. Were those manuscripts available at the time the KJV was written? I do not know, but I certainly intend to find out. But the point is, a Bible translation is not necessarily more reliable because there are more verses in it. The Catholic bible has whole extra books that are believed by the protestant church to be historically useful, but not the inspired word of God.
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« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2003, 03:34:13 PM »

You people have been busy this morning, doesn’t anyone go to Church anymore :-D lol A

Back to the NIV really fast, to add my 2 cents. How about you read the verse above and below the those “missing” verse in the NIV. They are there, they are just mixed in with other verses. The bible was not written in Chapter and Verse, this was done by the Roman Catholic Church. I mean, there a verse that start with AND! They will split phrases mid-sentence, and all this does is help make it easier for guys like good ol’ Benny to make them say what he wants.

Speaking of which, who is this Pastor your keep quoting!? He is like Jack Chick, only he seems to have it in for ALL Christians! Tell me, what does htis guy beleive? Does he have any beleif other then that everyone else is wrong? Lets see a post where he is tell why what HE beleives is true, not about what we beleive is fault. Lets try and built up, not tear down! Instead of telling us what we beleive is wrong, post a link from him telling us what he beleives in RIGHT.
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« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2003, 05:10:32 PM »

I don't know who this "pastor" doug dodd is, but it breaks my heart that someone would have such a passion and desire to divide believers.  Cry There is nothing at all wrong with the NIV, and I absolutely gaurantee that you CANNOT prove that there is, because there just isn't. The thing you have to realize is that though the wording of translations differ, that does not in any way mean that the meaning differs at all. The NIV is not a word-for-word translation, what it is, is a thought-for-thought translation. what this basically means is that the original meaning of the text is kept in tact, yet it is communicated in a way that is more understandable in this day and age. The meaning of the text is preserved. Again, the NIV is not the superior translation, but it is a perfectly acceptable and accurate translation. whatever translation you prefer, is fine. yes there are some exceptions, in which the actual meaning has been changed to say what someone wants it to say, but these fabrications are pretty easily spotted. the NASB, NIV, KJV, etc, are all perfectly acceptable. Which Bible is the right Bible? The one you read!
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« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2003, 06:11:16 PM »

You people have been busy this morning, doesn’t anyone go to Church anymore :-D lol A

My guess is, you're probably in a different time zone. Smiley

Quote
Back to the NIV really fast, to add my 2 cents. How about you read the verse above and below the those “missing” verse in the NIV. They are there, they are just mixed in with other verses. The bible was not written in Chapter and Verse, this was done by the Roman Catholic Church. I mean, there a verse that start with AND! They will split phrases mid-sentence, and all this does is help make it easier for guys like good ol’ Benny to make them say what he wants.

Speaking of which, who is this Pastor your keep quoting!? He is like Jack Chick, only he seems to have it in for ALL Christians! Tell me, what does htis guy beleive? Does he have any beleif other then that everyone else is wrong? Lets see a post where he is tell why what HE beleives is true, not about what we beleive is fault. Lets try and built up, not tear down! Instead of telling us what we beleive is wrong, post a link from him telling us what he beleives in RIGHT.
 Yes, that *would* be helpful.

BDoggy, I see what you're getting at, too; I think the NIV is more than a paraphrsing, though; I think it's pretty accurate.

I am interested in seeing what happened to those verses, though. I did look at them, and I'm wondering if it had to do with the manuscripts. Hm. Anyone have any beta on this?
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« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2003, 07:43:19 PM »


My guess is, you're probably in a different time zone  

Um, you mean like, The Twilight Zone?


I think it's possible to take this version thing too far.  How many different ways can you spell, S-A-C-R-I-F-I-C-E ??

But indeed, doesn't the fact that literally everybody is drooling over the NIV tell you that it must be suspect?  I'd use it if it was all I had--but only if it was all I had.  But that's just my instinct--no real academic basis.  

But my problem isn't which version, but just simply using the version I DO have.  Anyone else have that problem?  

No, I guess knot.



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« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2003, 08:15:48 PM »

I was just joking about the church thing, we had some guess speakers, so my church ran a little long and I had to run a few errands afterward, so by the time I got back, the thread was 10-12 posts bigger, and not small post either. I was joking around, don’t sweat it.

Yeah, translation problems are a big thing. And the Crusaders did a good job of burning down the building holding the original texts, so we have some trouble getting our hands on the first manuscripts, or the first few copies. I advice, if you can’t get a hold of a good piece of the text in the old Hebrew and Greek, and you don’t speak fluent Hebrew and Greek (the ancient verse, not the modern), then you need to read several translations. When doing research, I read New international, New King James, New living, Amplified, New American, and in extreme cases, the Message. I mean, the chances of reading the verse in context in 5-6 different versions and getting a different meaning each time is highly unlikely.

 For the non-native English speakers reading the bible in English, I know they find the NIV to shed light in verse that where not clear in the NKJV or other popular version.
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« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2003, 12:20:27 AM »

How, oh how did I know that this topic would inevitably role into this forum with the tact of the proverbial china-cabinet-bull?

I've learned two things about this entire topic; a topic I've studied from both angles.  The KJV/Majority Text/TR side will swear that their transcripts are the oldest, and validate their adherence to the text by its durability throughout the ages.  The NIV/NASB/RSV/NASV/etc./Minority Text/Alexandrian Manuscript side will swear that their transcripts are the oldest, and adhere for the same reasons.  Both sides have "proof."  So what is the average believer to do?  Baptist tenent here that is of good understanding: Priesthood of the Believer.  It's your call, between your God and your conscience - His Holy Spirit.  I personally, am eclectic.  I tend to hold to all of the textual families, and settle for the inclusion of them all.  Hence the NKJV/ESV side.  Eclectic translations.  Why, however, do we find verses missing?  Because many of those verses only show up in the TR based texts.  The translators in many of these other versions make note of these verses (at least the ESV does). Which leads to yet another confusing argument - which side has the more transcripts?  The KJVers will claim they do, while the NIVers will claim they do.  Both, again, with "proof."

But regardless of which "translation" you adhere to, it is important to realize that we have no inerrant current translation[/b].  Why do I so boldly pronounce that?  Because of two simple (and others to be sure) mis-translated words found in every version:

Baptize - from the greek baptizo which means, "To immerse."  Not to sprinkle.  Not to spit warily upon.  Not to pour, dump, or otherwise douse.  No.  To immerse.  Why then the transliteration of the word?  Because then baptize can mean whatever the denominational body wants it to.  King James had that in mind when he authorized his "inerrant" version.  All other translators did as well.

And...

Church - from the greek ecclesia which means, "Called out assembly."  It is a political term in reference.  It was used to call out the town's population for a meeting.  Jesus called believers His ecclesia, His called out assembly, separated unto Him, for His work and to His glory.  King James had that in mind as well, as did the others.  Why?  Because the term was always used biblically in a localized sense.  That is, local assemblies as opposed to universal assemblies.  Many denominations demand adherence to a hiearchy or universal headship of their "church."  By calling ecclesia "church," no one ever questions the denominational head of every local body imposed by certain hiearchial structures.  I do, however, believe that Christ speaks of the "church" as a whole at times, but in many cases throughout the New Testament Epistles, the "churches" referred to are local, independent bodies of believers.

To say that we possess a perfect "translation" is to attribute the perfection of God's original with man's translation.  Can we then trust the bibles that we do have?  AMEN!  Why?  Because every believer discerns those words only at the bequest and in the power of God the Holy Spirit.  We understand what we are to understand as He teaches us through that word.  Some spend more time arguing about that word, than they do pointing people to that word.  Beware!
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« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2003, 06:40:52 AM »

Is It Right?

1.To tell sinners they can merit the favor of God by doing good works?

2.To extract money from people using the tithe?

3.To tell people they cannot understand the Bible?

4.To comfort sinners with thoughts of purgatory?

5.To teach people that water baptism can save them from eternal judgement?

6.To teach seeking saints from a corrupt text like the NIV?

7.To teach infant baptism?

8.To teach Calvinism?

9.To believe in annihilation?

10.To teach someone today can be a part of the 144,000?

11.To teach that saved people are "spiritual Israel"?

No, none of the above and hundreds more are not right according to the Bible but are practiced everyday... Christ will come again, what will he find you doing?

By Pastor Doug Dodd s.b.g.



I agree with the Pastor 100% Amen, thanks  for postig this A4C

Brother Love Smiley
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« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2003, 09:29:17 AM »

If you think that the NIV is corrupt then what Bible version do you think is right?  How do you know that the version that you have is right?  I read from the KJV.  My dad goes nuts and says that, that one is the most correct, but is it?

Kris
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« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2003, 12:21:31 PM »

If you think that the NIV is corrupt then what Bible version do you think is right?  How do you know that the version that you have is right?  I read from the KJV.  My dad goes nuts and says that, that one is the most correct, but is it?

Kris

No, we talked about this in another post. The NKJV was written in another version of English that we speak. Not only was it written in a Dialect used in Britton, but a Dialect used in Britton centuries ago!

Where has saved_4_ever been? Either way, this should bring him out of hiding Grin

Allinall- Yeah, and John the Baptist baptized people in the Jordan river, not a bath tub. The Jordan, as I’m sure you know, is a mess. It was a sacrifice to get dunked there. Where were you baptized? the bible also says to cut off body parts that causes us to sin. Are you without sin, or do you type with your tongue? When Jesus was doing the first lord’s supper, and he told us to “do it in remembrance of me,” he was eating a full meal with his buddies. They where not munching in a cracker and grape juice. But when was the last time YOU ate a full Passover meal for the Lord supper? A lot of things we do in the church today don’t follow thing TO THE LETTER. That is a problem with our Doctrine, not your translation. On top of that, it looks like you have taking the definitions from the strong’s-like books. These books are good for study, but they are pretty vague, and they only tell the Lateral Translation, not the Connotation of the word, not what it REALLY meant. Think of if you told a non-native speaker to “Get up” In his own language. He would think “How can I TAKE up? How can I get raise from the bed?” That is the same problem we have with the Greek Dictionaries some times.
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« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2003, 04:23:19 PM »

New International Version Bible Authority Test

INSTRUCTIONS:
Using the New International Version Bible, answer the following questions.
Do not rely on your memory. As the Bible is the final authority, you must take the answer from the Bible verse (not from footnotes but from the text).


1. Fill in the missing words in Matthew 5:44. "Love your enemies,__________ them that curse you, ______________ to them that hate you, and pray for them that __________ and persecute you."


2. According to Matthew 17:21, what two things are required to cast out this type of demon?


3. According to Matthew 18:11, why did Jesus come to earth?


4. According to Matthew 27:2, what was Pilate's first name?


5. In Matthew 27:35, when the wicked soldiers parted His garments, they were fulfilling the words of the prophet. Copy what the prophet said in Matthew 27:35 from the NIV.


6. In Mark 3:15, Jesus gave the apostles power to cast out demons and to: ____________


7. According to Mark 7:16, what does a man need to be able to hear?


8. According to Luke 7:28, what was John? (teacher, prophet, carpenter, etc.). What is his title or last name?


9. In Luke 9:55, what did the disciples not know?


10. In Luke 9:56, what did the Son of man not come to do? According to this verse, what did He come to do?


11. In Luke 22:14, how many apostles were with Jesus?


12. According to Luke 23:38, in what three languages was the superscription written?


13. In Luke 24:42, what did they give Jesus to eat with His fish?


14. John 3:13 is a very important verse, proving the deity of Christ. According to this verse (as Jesus spoke), where is the Son of man?


15. What happened each year as told in John 5:4?


16. In John 7:50, what time of day did Nicodemus come to Jesus?


17. In Acts 8:37, what is the one requirement for baptism?


18. What did Saul ask Jesus in Acts 9:6?


19. Write the name of the man mentioned in Acts 15:34.


20. Study Acts 24:6-8. What would the Jew have done with Paul? What was the chief captain's name? What did the chief captain command?


21. Copy Romans 16:24 word for word from the NIV.


22. First Timothy 3:16 is perhaps the greatest verse in the New Testament concerning the deity of Christ. In this verse, who was manifested in the flesh?


23. In the second part of First Peter 4:14, how do [they] speak of Christ? And, what do we Christians do?


24. Who are the three Persons of the Trinity in First John 5:7?


25. Revelation 1:11 is another very important verse that proves the deity of Christ. In the first part of this verse Jesus said, "I am the A______________ and O___________, the _________ and the _______:"


Conclusion: Little space is provided for your answers, but it's much more than needed. If you followed the instructions above, you not only failed the test, you receive a big goose egg.
(Ed. These are all missing in the NIV.) So now what do you think of the NIV as an "accurate, easy to understand, up to date Bible"?


If you would like to improve your score, and in fact score 100%, you can take this test using the Authorized (King James) Bible.


* This test came to us by way of email and has been adapted and edited for use here.

Pastor Doug Dodd s.b.g.
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« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2003, 04:34:14 PM »


If you think that the NIV is corrupt then what Bible version do you think is right?  How do you know that the version that you have is right?  Kris

Only with studying the background of how a particular version came about, Kris.  That takes a little extra work.  Then, you have to allow time for learning how different versions read, and which you prefer.  And then, what the experts say, too.

After that, it's just bascially which do you prefer?
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« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2003, 05:39:04 PM »

I hate to break it to your pastor friend, but Matthew 5:44, Matthew 27:2, Matthew 27:35, Mark 3:15, Luke 7:28, Luke 9:55, Luke 9:56, Luke 22:14, Luke 23:38, Luke 24:42, John 3:13, John 7:50, Acts 9:6, Acts 24:8, First Timothy 3:16, First Peter 4:14, and Revelation 1:11 are ALL in the NIV. Look it up in your book, look it up in bible gateway, go to your local Christian books store and look for those verse in as many copies of the NIV as you can, it is in all.

Conclusion: Either this so-called Pastor doesn't have any idea what he is talking about, or he does but he thinks he is preaching to idiots! And when reading the misses verse, and comparing them to the verse in other bibles, you will find the "misses" verse are in fact there, in the context. See, the Verses and Chapter was made by man, not God, and where added Centuries after the fact. They are a guild to help in study, not a requirement, Christians read it for ages without Chapters and Verse, and did fine. If you base your belief that the NIV is corrupt because the guy told you, perhaps your should rethink this belief.
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