DISCUSSION FORUMS
MAIN MENU
Home
Help
Advanced Search
Recent Posts
Site Statistics
Who's Online
Forum Rules
Bible Resources
• Bible Study Aids
• Bible Devotionals
• Audio Sermons
Community
• ChristiansUnite Blogs
• Christian Forums
• Facebook Apps
Web Search
• Christian Family Sites
• Top Christian Sites
• Christian RSS Feeds
Family Life
• Christian Finance
• ChristiansUnite KIDS
Shop
• Christian Magazines
• Christian Book Store
Read
• Christian News
• Christian Columns
• Christian Song Lyrics
• Christian Mailing Lists
Connect
• Christian Singles
• Christian Classifieds
Graphics
• Free Christian Clipart
• Christian Wallpaper
Fun Stuff
• Clean Christian Jokes
• Bible Trivia Quiz
• Online Video Games
• Bible Crosswords
Webmasters
• Christian Guestbooks
• Banner Exchange
• Dynamic Content

Subscribe to our Free Newsletter.
Enter your email address:

ChristiansUnite
Forums
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
October 18, 2017, 02:36:27 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
277668 Posts in 26442 Topics by 3790 Members
Latest Member: Goodwin
* Home Help Search Login Register
+  ChristiansUnite Forums
|-+  Theology
| |-+  Apologetics (Moderator: admin)
| | |-+  Is the Son.. Jesus the Christ, the father?
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Is the Son.. Jesus the Christ, the father?  (Read 3852 times)
AJ
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 257



View Profile
« on: April 30, 2005, 03:08:43 AM »

Now answer this very carefully!  The man Christ Jesus, said ...my father is greater than I...

Joh 14:28  Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: (for my Father is greater than I).


Joh 5:36  But I have greater witness than [that] of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, (that the Father hath sent me).


Joh 16:28  (I came forth from the Father), and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, *and go to the Father*.


Eph 1:17  That the (God *of* our Lord Jesus Christ), the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and (revelation) in the knowledge of him:


Col 3:17  And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, [do] all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father *by* him.


1Th 1:1  Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians [which is] in God the Father and [in] the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, *and* the Lord Jesus Christ.


2Th 2:16  Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, *and* God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,


1Th 1:1  Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians [which is] in God the Father and [in] the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.


2Ti 1:2  To Timothy, [my] dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father *and *Christ Jesus our Lord.


Phm 1:3  Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father *and* the Lord Jesus Christ.


1Pe 1:3  Blessed [be] the God and Father (of) our Lord Jesus Christ,


2Pe 1:17  For (he) received from (God the Father) honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, *This is my beloved Son*, in whom I am well pleased.


1Jo 1:3  That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the (Father, *and* with his Son Jesus Christ).


1Jo 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, *that denieth the Father and the Son*.


1Jo 2:23  Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].


1Jo 2:24  Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the (Son, *and* in the Father).


1Jo 4:14  And we have seen and do testify that the Father *sent the Son* to be the Saviour of the world.


1Jo 5:7  For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


2Jo 1:3  Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the (Son of the Father), in truth and love.


2Jo 1:9  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath *both* the( Father _and _the Son).


Jud 1:1  Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by (God the Father), *and* preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Rev 3:21  To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my (Father) in his throne.

Rev 14:1  And I looked, and, lo, a (Lamb)stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having (his- Father's) name written in their foreheads.

Rev 2:27  And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my ( Father).

Rev 3:5  He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name (before my Father), and before his angels.

Rev 3:21  To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with *me* in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with (my Father) in *his* throne.

Ok lets see how we deal with this...dont forget this is a mystery...in the end i will show you undeniable proof that God the Son... is not, God the Father.

God bless
« Last Edit: April 30, 2005, 03:40:03 AM by AJ » Logged
nChrist
Global Moderator
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 60375


May God Lead And Guide Us All


View Profile
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2005, 07:27:19 AM »

Brother AJ,

Colossians 2:8-10  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Revelation 1:8  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Isaiah 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

1 Timothy 3:16  And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1st Timothy 4:10  For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1 John 5:7  For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
1 John 5:8  And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Is JESUS GOD?  YES!

Is the HOLY SPIRIT GOD?  YES!

Is GOD THE FATHER GOD?  YES!

The THREE ARE ONE!


There is another interesting question that should be asked that addresses this same issue:

Is JESUS the LORD?  YES!

Now, look at all the references that name the LORD.


Here is yet one more question of many more that addresses this same issue:

Who is the WORD?  JESUS CHRIST!

Just one more question for now:

Who is the GODHEAD?  God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit - The THREE ARE ONE - ALMIGHTY GOD!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Logged

MalkyEL
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 343



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2005, 08:47:46 PM »

AMEN AMEN AMEN    Grin

 Question:
      Who raised Jesus from the dead?

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;)
 
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
 
Jhn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
 
John 10:17  Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.  18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

shalom, nana
Logged

Be mindful of the prisoners, as having been bound with them; of those ill-treated, as also being in the body yourselves.  Hebrews 13:3
AJ
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 257



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2005, 08:48:31 PM »

Totally agree brother...now read this, im refering to the man christ jesus, who was (given) ALL POWER, till the father puts all things under his feet...then the man christ jesus, the Son of God...will be subject unto the father, so God can be All in All.

1Co 15:24  Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26  The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
1Co 15:27  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

If its good enough for Paul... its good enough for me.

God bless you brother



Logged
nChrist
Global Moderator
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 60375


May God Lead And Guide Us All


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2005, 05:36:30 PM »

Brother AJ,

I think that you are talking about the earthly life, role, and purpose of Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh. If so, I understand exactly what you are talking about. Jesus, Very God, humbled Himself beyond measure and gave Himself on the Cross for us all. He was obedient to His own purpose and that purpose was formed before the foundation of the world. The world would be a horrible place in the absence of the CROSS, the most precious event in human history.

The world wanted signs and wonders for evidence to believe, and JESUS provided that in abundance. He was true and faithful to His purpose, even unto death. His words in His earthly ministry were also true to His purpose. He had to give Himself willingly, as no man or army could have taken Him. Many confuse His humble way and words to mean that He couldn't have been God. He showed victory, even in death, and arose from the dead. There is a drastic comparison between the nature Jesus showed to men versus His might, power, and majesty that was HIS also.

If I understand your post correctly now, you are addressing this comparison.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 4:14  But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
Logged

AJ
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 257



View Profile
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2005, 10:38:14 PM »

Hi brother Tom Smiley

1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself  be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


Here is a few more translations just for reference...


(ASV)  And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.

(BBE)  And when all things have been put under him, then will the Son himself be under him who put all things under him, so that God may be all in all.

(CEV)  After everything is under the power of God's Son, he will put himself under the power of God, who put everything under his Son's power. Then God will mean everything to everyone.




I cant say much more on this brother...if Paul did'nt know the difference between God the Son, and God the Father...who can know the difference? I mean its not me who said this, its Paul. And Paul is saying here, that the Son will be under obedience to the Father...when its all said and done. (ie) New Heaven new Earth.... How can the Father be under obedience to the Father?

God bless you brother

« Last Edit: May 01, 2005, 10:50:00 PM by AJ » Logged
nChrist
Global Moderator
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 60375


May God Lead And Guide Us All


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2005, 11:19:22 PM »

Brother AJ,

Maybe this is an issue of semantics. If not, we will simply have to agree to disagree. The Word was and is God. There is only one Almighty God, and Jesus is Him, but so is God the Holy Spirit and God the Father. Regardless, I don't argue semantics, so I'll leave it at that. We agree that the Three are One and Jesus is God, so that's more than sufficient for me.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Logged

AJ
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 257



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2005, 12:26:37 AM »

Amen brother...we will have to agree to disagree Smiley Just remember...

John 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

God bless
Logged
felix102
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 476


Jesus Christ is Lord!


View Profile
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2005, 01:47:29 AM »

Hey guys.

H2O exists in three forms: water, steam, and ice (liquid, gas, solid). Is water steam? No, but water is H2O and steam is H2O in different forms. Is steam ice? No, but steam is H2O and ice is H2O.

You see, this is the same situation here. The Son Jesus Christ is not the Father in the sense that ice is not water. However water and ice are the same things in different forms. Just as the son Jesus Christ and the Father are God.


AJ, is that what you are trying to say? Brother, you shouldnt be afraid to fully assert what you want to tell us. It becomes very vague and useless if you are holding things back.

« Last Edit: May 02, 2005, 01:51:16 AM by felix102 » Logged
Bronzesnake
Guest
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2005, 02:01:00 AM »

  I am a father - a son - and a grandfather!  Cheesy
I am no less a son than I am a father and no less a father than I am a grandfather.

1x1x1=1 not 1+1+1
 
Does that simplify it for ya AJ?

Bronzesnake
Logged
felix102
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 476


Jesus Christ is Lord!


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2005, 02:24:09 AM »

 I am a father - a son - and a grandfather!  Cheesy
I am no less a son than I am a father and no less a father than I am a grandfather.

1x1x1=1 not 1+1+1
 
Does that simplify it for ya AJ?

Bronzesnake

Hey bro,

Maybe AJ is trying to say that the son Jesus Christ is not God the Father in the sense that ice is not water. We can at the same time say water, ice, and steam are different but all are the same thing. Water, ice and steam IS H2O. The Father, the Son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit IS God. But water is not the same as ice. So the Son is not the same as the Father.

Or we can consider what you proposed John, a person can be a son, father, and grandfather. Different labels for the same person. That explains the trinity well. Yet again, maybe AJ is saying there are different roles for each label.

I think a better question here is "IN WHAT SENSE, is(or is not) the son, Jesus Christ, the Father? "

Interesting topic brothers, but I would like to know the purpose. What say you AJ?  Wink
Logged
AJ
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 257



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2005, 01:56:47 PM »

I am a father - a son - and a grandfather!  Cheesy
I am no less a son than I am a father and no less a father than I am a grandfather.

1x1x1=1 not 1+1+1
 
Does that simplify it for ya AJ?

Bronzesnake

Hey bro,

Maybe AJ is trying to say that the son Jesus Christ is not God the Father

Interesting topic brothers, but I would like to know the purpose. What say you AJ?  Wink

Does'nt matter what i say brother...its not me who is saying the Son Jesus Christ, is not God the Father. Its Paul the Apostle...debaters will have to wait, and take it up with Paul.. if we cant see this, then we just dont see.

Once more...

1Co 15:24  Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26  The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
1Co 15:27  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

God bless you all

Logged
Bronzesnake
Guest
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2005, 04:48:04 PM »

I am a father - a son - and a grandfather!  Cheesy
I am no less a son than I am a father and no less a father than I am a grandfather.

1x1x1=1 not 1+1+1
 
Does that simplify it for ya AJ?

Bronzesnake

Hey bro,

Maybe AJ is trying to say that the son Jesus Christ is not God the Father

Interesting topic brothers, but I would like to know the purpose. What say you AJ?  Wink

Does'nt matter what i say brother...its not me who is saying the Son Jesus Christ, is not God the Father. Its Paul the Apostle...debaters will have to wait, and take it up with Paul.. if we cant see this, then we just dont see.

Once more...

1Co 15:24  Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25  For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26  The last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
1Co 15:27  For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

God bless you all



I don't see the purpose of arguing such semantics here my friend. Jesus is in fact God.

 My son doesn't call me grandpa, my grandson doesn't call me son, and my father doesn't call me dad - However, I am still John.

To look upon the face of the Father God is instant death. Therefore He comes to us in human form as Jesus. He is God in all three forms.

Bronzesnake
Logged
Soldier4Christ
Global Moderator
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 58536


One Nation Under God


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2005, 04:50:51 PM »

Jesus Christ himself said that we are his brothers and sisters and that God is the father:

Mat 12:50  For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Mat 23:9  And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.


Yet at the same time Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one and the same.

This has been a very hard thing for the human mind to comprehend but then the human mind has not been able to fathom many other things such as the human body or the workings of the universe and God is greater yet than these.

Logged

Joh 9:4  I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
2nd Timothy
Gold Member
*****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 2706


Resident Meese Master


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2005, 05:06:28 PM »

Me thinks it would be easier to sit down and teach a fly algebra  Cheesy

We probably will not fully understand it this side of heaven.  How mysterious and wonderful is the Lord?
Logged

Tim

Enslaved in service to Christ
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  



More From ChristiansUnite...    About Us | Privacy Policy | | ChristiansUnite.com Site Map | Statement of Beliefs



Copyright © 1999-2016 ChristiansUnite.com. All rights reserved.
Please send your questions, comments, or bug reports to the

Powered by SMF 1.1 RC2 | SMF © 2001-2005, Lewis Media