King James Version 100% pure

[JudgeNot]

Right Reba - I'm not arguing.  What we consider 'steel' today is just different than the stuff they called 'steel' back then.  At sometime someone melted bronze and iron together - that's probably what the Bible refers to as 'steel'.

[PeterAV]

Ya,real cool an' hip man,daddyo,just like the other thingamajigs.Just kiddin.

Seriously that is a good point you make.Here is the facts of the situation.Of all the major Bibles out there[if you can call them that]The Holy Bible comes out as the easiest to read.The King James has proven itself to be the easiest to read in 23 of 26 catagories.And that was one Bible against the others.In fact,if you take your 1611 and an NIV,and put them side by side,you will be quite surprized at the complicated and archaic words that the NIV uses,when the 1611 uses every day words that my 6 year old son can read and understand.
The majority of the words in the KJV are 3letter words.This makes it very understandable to the young and those that are from a diferent language base.Plus the Holy Bible has its own built in Dictionary.None of the others can say that.
In fact all of the early translators never used LexICONS or dictionaries,but stuck to the words of God,only.

[PeterAV]

[quote author=asaph It is the Spirit that gives life not the letter.  just preach it. If the teaching you teach is of the Spirit then fine. If not then you are just teaching the letter which brings death. The same goes for the versions. If what you teach is of God then rejoice! If not then you are simply of the letter. Jesus said my words are spirit. Paul said the letter kills but the spirit gives life.

You are totally right asaph,but you have missed the point of my posts partly.If the very letters are not part of the very words of God,Then what?We are given into anything goes.
Jesus contrasts the spirit with the flesh.John 6:63
Then after he shows that his words are spirit,and they are life.
God's words are very important.Every single one,even the way they are spelled and the order of the words.
Not one jot nor tittle,right?Diminish not a word,Right?Thou shalt not add or take away,right?But this is exactly what is being done in the modern versions and are coming up with another gospel.
The letter that you talk of is of the LAW.This is totally not to be used in this senario.This is about honouring the LORD and his wonderful words and what God said about his words in his word.
Psalm 119:140 Thy word is very pure,therefore thy servant loveth it.
Proverbs 30:5+6 Every word of God is pure:he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Add thou not to his words,lest he reprove thee;and thou be found a liar.
Psalm 12:6+7 The words of the LORD are pure words:as silver tried in a furnace of earth,purified seven times.
Thou shalt keep them,O LORD,thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you,Till heaven and earth pass,one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,till all be fulfilled.
Jeremiah 26:2 Thus saith the LORD;Stand in the court of the LORD's house,and speak unto all the cities of Judah,which come to worship in the Lord's house,ALL the words that I command thee to speak unto them;diminish not a word.
Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away:but my words shall not pass away.
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said,It is written,Man shall not live by bread alone,but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Plus I am sure you can find more yourself.When God repeats something,over and over,all throughout the Holy Bible,I think he has something very important for us to take note of.He that hath ears to hear let him hear,amen?

I do rejoice in God's word.I am totally absorbed in to it every day of my life.It is more than my necessary food.
But so many are stuck into believing that the new versions are nutritious,when they are doing the Church a great dis-service.Some of the translators are good men,and mean well,but others are purposely adulterating the words of the living God.
If you knew that there was danger to your community ,wouldn't you feel responsible to make the trumpet call,and warn the people?I think so.Any reasonable person would.I am not going to gingerly tap on the door of your house,afaid that I might offend you,or wake you up,when your house is on fire.I will do all that I can,with all my strenth and all my mind and all my heart,to rescue you,and as many others that is possible.It is my passion.I know it is not yours,but I have spent years devoted to the Holy Bible,keeping a sharp eye on the movements of the enemy,trying to infiltrate the ranks.

This is the next revival of the Modern chuch,if they wake up.
Then God can bless his word as ussual.
How many days are left for us to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ.Will it be the real gospel or a fake?
Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Which is not another;but there be some that trouble you,and would prevert the gospel of Christ.
But though we or an angel from heaven,preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you,let him be accursed.
As we said before,so say I now again,If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received,let him be accursed.

The chuches are living under a double curse,by allowing these troublers to change the words of the living God.
We need to repent of our lukewarmness,and get fired up and purified again.We can fight with the real word of God that is sharper than any two-edged sword,instead of battling with a butter knife and taking our ease.

[Allinall]

Baptize[/i] and Church both of which have been transliterated/mistranslated...

They have not been mistranslated at all.These people knew at least 6 languages each fluently,and some up to 20,how about you.I know three.
I understand Baptism,and other languages understand Baptism.
I understand Church,and other languages understand Church.I would venture to say,that every person that reads this post KNOWS what Baptism is and what Church is.
But just how many will understand Sheol And Hades.
Hell is understandable,don't you think?
Let us not be straigning at gnats now.

Let's test that theory.  Any takers?  What does baptize mean?  What does your church teach that it means?  What does church mean?

BTW, it is Sheol and Hades.  The jesting was how you claim that not stating it as such would be considered better.  

I'm not going to argue this.  This is devisive.  My irritation with this is that it fails to build up the body.  It divides.  It harbors division in the form of piety.  It encourages discord.   And yet, it is continually supported and encouraged as a "debatable" topic.

[Reba]

Right Reba - I'm not arguing.  What we consider 'steel' today is just different than the stuff they called 'steel' back then.  At sometime someone melted bronze and iron together - that's probably what the Bible refers to as 'steel'.

Sheesh i know your not argueing! X

The point being a translation is just a translation. The KJV is most wonderfull to me but it is just a translation. God knows and knew when steel wouldbe/was 'invented'.  

I always thought revivels were of the Spirit i read here they are of a bible translation....  one never knows....

[AVBunyan]

I always thought revivels were of the Spirit i read here they are of a bible translation....  one never knows....

I, for one, grow weary of this kind of statment. This shows a lack of understnding of the prupose and the work of the word in God's plan.  It is an improper estimation of the power of the written word of God!

Here is a novel idea - try taking a King James Bible and running references and seeing just what the purpose of the "word" is in the scriptures?  Can anybody today still run references from a good condordance anymore - I know it is difficult with the modern versions but you still can with an AV!  Try it - it is a fascinating study.

Forgive me while I repeat myself:

Rom 10:17  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Heb 4:12  For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Psa 119:154  Plead my cause, and deliver me: quicken me according to thy word.

Eph 6:17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

The above are just 4 verses showing what the word does.

Yes, revivals come about by the work of the Spirit but the Spirit uses God's work in the revival - just read the history of revivals.  No word - no revival.

Ya'll have a nice evening now.

[JudgeNot]

I, for one, grow weary of this kind of statment.

OK - I, for one, grow weary of this kind of statment.  

I must interject (again) in a debate that, due to egos and individual understanding, seems to never go away.
I generally stay out of translation discussions.  In my opinion the Word is so simple a baby must understand it – if not the Word is wasted.  That’s what I’ve been taught.  If any version of the Word reaches ears willing to hear – as long as that translation teaches that Jesus is God our Savior the Holy Spirit and through faith in Him we are saved - it is a valid translation.  
*AV and AV* - it seems to me you are turning the Holy Trinity into the wholly quadriplegic.  (Forgive the pun.)  
The translated written Word, while holy, is no more holy than the ground Moses took his sandals off to walk on during a visit to Mt. Sinai.  If all is based on the written Word rather than the Trinity, then the Trinity is crippled.  
The Word is more than translated documents comprised of letters and prophecies.  The Word is the Word.  The Word is the God inspired oral testimony you heard in church last Sunday.  The Word is a Christian witnessing to a fellow commuter on a NY City bus.  The Word is on a message board in front of a community Church that makes a passerby visit and become saved.  The Word is what Jesus writes in our hearts every time we pray.  To limit the Word to a single written translation of letters is ludicrous to me.  
And in defense of Reba (though she can defend herself quite well, thank you):  When we attend a revival and the Spirit is renewed in our hearts and we jump for joy – the Word is certainly a tool God uses, but, again, it is the Word of testimony, the Word of history and the Word of wisdom that sends the Spirit into our hearts – not the Word from a single Bible translation.  
We are all born with particular gifts from God.  For some it is the gift of testimony, for some the gift of giving, for others the gift of teaching, or others the gift of helping.  It appears to me, *AV and AV*, that your gift may be one of studying and translating the written Word.  All I would ask is; please make sure that while you are exercising the gift God gave you that it doesn’t blind you to the Simple, Saving Word – the Word that a baby can understand.  
God Bless!!!!!!
Jim

[Reba]

Are Spanish, French, German, Russion, etc. Bibles any less the Word?

I like the KJ best for a number of reason. One reason is because i can hear my Dad's voice when i hear kj being read... I like the poetry, the music of the language. I fully believe God is big enough to take care of His Word and am thankfull He preserved the KJV translation for us. I am also thankful for the modern translations. Watch any old movie about the Bible and you will hear Jesus talking in KJ.

Playing here is really sad to me and i should not be doing so. When some folks in the world are so hungry for Gods written Word they savor a page or a halve page a book or chapter is held so precious their very lives are risked to hold them and we have the gall to argue their translatins are not the Holy Word. We are so blessed we are becoming fat........

I will not pester this thread any longer...

[JudgeNot]

I will not pester this thread any longer...

Amen to that, too!  

[PeterAV]

harbors division in the form of piety.  It encourages discord.   And yet, it is continually supported and encouraged as a "debatable" topic.

Jesus is the Word.Jesus left us God's Word.We can only go by God's Word for all matters of faith and practice.His Words are spirit and life.No one elses is.Is the Bible you use the work of God without error as God would have it ?Or is it a work of man,with private blunders every page?
Division?Division is not wrong.But life saving.Look at the children of Israel at the Red Sea.If God didn't divide the waters,they would all be lost to the mercy of the politeness of Pharoh.Creation was founded upon division.
Because of Jesus,there was a division among the people.
No,division is not wrong in itself.But ther is a division that is dangerously wrong.
Some people always get the Bible verse truths mixed up by not giving the context,or just partial quotes.I think we are all guilty of it.Lots of people in the church have misquoted Romans 16:17,that they truly believe that if any person causes any kind of a stir,that this is to be cautioned.That you had better watch out for those guys or gals.But the truth says this;
Now I beseech you,brethren,mark them which cause divisions and offences CONTRARY TO THE DOCTRINE YE HAVE LEARNED  and avoid them.
The capitalized words are the ones every one forgets,and this makes all of the diference in the world.
Discord is not my goal.Getting the truth out is.The 1611 is the only word of God for the English speaking world,today.It has no errors.All of the others do.The 1611 translators spent three years in fasting and prayer before they even started the work of the translating.No other Bible transation team has ever done that.Plus they offered the doors to be opened to any that had an interest in the work,besides just the translators.That doesn't happen now.It is all private selection,to get the same like minded private views out.Plus the Greek the the modern versions use as the basis was done in secret behind closed doors.They knew they would be branded as heretics.They say as much in their own materials.
The church is like the froggie in the water,that is on the stove.He doesn't even know what is happening,and before too long he dies from the intence cooking heat.

[PeterAV]

[quote author=Reba Are Spanish, French, German, Russion, etc. Bibles any less the Word?
 When some folks in the world are so hungry for Gods written Word they savor a page or a halve page a book or chapter is held so precious their very lives are risked to hold them and we have the gall to argue their translatins are not the Holy Word. We are so blessed we are becoming fat........

...................
Good question there Reba.
  The 1611 follows the 99 percent majority texts.Any other language that follows this majoruty proven text is the very words of God in their language.
The Germans have the Martin Luther's Bible.It is founded upon the Texus Receptus[majority text].
The Italians have the Diodati.Also Texus Receptus.
The Hugarians have  Erodisi[Texus Receptus]
The French have Olivetan [T.R.]
Spain has Valera [T.R.]
Poland Visoly [T.R.]
Iceland Gottshcalkson [T.R.]
Holland Degrave [T.R.]
Russia Elisabeth Bible [T.R.]
Coverdale England,1535,[T.R.]
Great Bible England,1539,[T.R.]
Matthew's Bible England,1537,[T.R.]
Bishop's Bible England,1568,[T.R.]
Tyndale Bible England 1525,[T.R.]
Geneva Bible 1560,[T.R.]
The Greek texts they used was the Received text.
Erasmus:1516
Beza:1565
Stephanus:1546
Colinaeus:1534
Elzevir:1633
All,T.R.
As far as this thing you say about us being so fat,here in North America,is true.The rest of the world dying to get a scrap of Paper with the precious words of the LORD.
That is why I will be sending two boxes over to the mission fields this week.We sure can do our part to help them in water, food ,work,but the best thing is to bring them the words of the living God.They need the true gospel,that makes wariors not lukewarmers.

[asaph]

The best and only way to promote the KJV is by reading, preaching and teaching it. I make certain that I do all three. The Spirit bears witness. One can use other versions and not be condemned. For instance if I say "God loves you!", this is a noble and true saying though not a direct quote from the Bible. The Spirit can and does convict people with such words. That is why the new covenant is of the spirit and not the letter.

2Co 3:6  Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Therefore let us not be quick to judge other translations. Let us weigh what is being read by the Holy Spirit in our spirit.

Phi 4:8  Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

asaph

 

[Allinall]

Jesus is the Word.Jesus left us God's Word.We can only go by God's Word for all matters of faith and practice.His Words are spirit and life.No one elses is.Is the Bible you use the work of God without error as God would have it ?Or is it a work of man,with private blunders every page?

The Bible I use is a translation of the inerrant word of God.  It is the work of God through men.

Division?Division is not wrong.But life saving.Look at the children of Israel at the Red Sea.If God didn't divide the waters,they would all be lost to the mercy of the politeness of Pharoh.Creation was founded upon division.
Because of Jesus,there was a division among the people.
No,division is not wrong in itself.

Please remove the book of 1 Corinthians from your KJV because it holds no truth to you.  Division is great, and Paul, must have just been an ignorant fool.    

But ther is a division that is dangerously wrong.
Some people always get the Bible verse truths mixed up by not giving the context,or just partial quotes.I think we are all guilty of it.Lots of people in the church have misquoted Romans 16:17,that they truly believe that if any person causes any kind of a stir,that this is to be cautioned.That you had better watch out for those guys or gals.But the truth says this;
Now I beseech you,brethren,mark them which cause divisions and offences CONTRARY TO THE DOCTRINE YE HAVE LEARNED  and avoid them.
The capitalized words are the ones every one forgets,and this makes all of the diference in the world.
Discord is not my goal.Getting the truth out is.The 1611 is the only word of God for the English speaking world,today.It has no errors.All of the others do.

The doctrines taught in the Bible have nothing to do with the KJV translation.  I've yet to find ANY scriptural support for this preference that held weight.  Many have tried.  All have been scripturally, contextually, grammatically, and literally refuted.  The KJV only viewpoint by its very nature is devisive.

The 1611 translators spent three years in fasting and prayer before they even started the work of the translating.No other Bible transation team has ever done that.Plus they offered the doors to be opened to any that had an interest in the work,besides just the translators.That doesn't happen now.It is all private selection,to get the same like minded private views out.Plus the Greek the the modern versions use as the basis was done in secret behind closed doors.They knew they would be branded as heretics.They say as much in their own materials.

So is it God responsible for the KJV, or man?  By this, it would seem man as they were far better prepared and educated than anyone else.  Therefore, man preserved the authenticity of God's original.  Or, your argumentation is wrong.

The church is like the froggie in the water,that is on the stove.He doesn't even know what is happening,and before too long he dies from the intence cooking heat.

Such sound theology...

[asaph]

The best and only way to promote the KJV is by reading, preaching and teaching it. I make certain that I do all three. The Spirit bears witness. One can use other versions and not be condemned. For instance if I say "God loves you!", this is a noble and true saying though not a direct quote from the Bible. The Spirit can and does convict people with such words. That is why the new covenant is of the spirit and not the letter.

2Co 3:6  Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Therefore let us not be quick to judge other translations. Let us weigh what is being read by the Holy Spirit in our spirit.

Phi 4:8  Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

asaph

 

Actually we are not to promote the KJV but Jesus Christ. He is the end of the commandment. He is the goal of all revelation. He is the Lord Spirit, the I am, the way, the truth, and the life.
Allinall has made a good point about the letter to the corinthians. In the church of Corinth there were those that said I follow Paul, I follow Peter or Apollos or Christ. The same thing is happening here. I follow the KJV, I follow the NIV or I follow various translations. The remedy is Christ the Lord Spirit. You need not that any man teach you but the annointing which you have received of Him is truth and causes us to abide in Him.

1Jo 2:27  But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

asaph

[joelkaki]

Greetings brethren – I trust the post will be a blessing for this is my motive here not to stir up.

The question was why the AV1611 vs. the modern versions?  Here are just two reasons I will chose to chat about here:

1. The ability to cross-reference more accurately.
I believe the cross references in the AV are more accurate and exact thus giving the ability to let the scriptures unlock themselves by the cross-referencing.    I believe in their attempts to “update” the English the modern translators have greatly hindered one’s ability to get an accurate cross reference in many ways.  I’m trying to keep the length of this post down so if you are interested then try it and see how easy the AV cross-references vs. the modern versions.

I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion.  Look at this scan of the 1611 at

http://members.aol.com/xplosive5/compkjv1.gif

I'm not sure how you would suggest that the Cross References are more accurate.  They are not even as numerous, and I would bet that most of them are the same cross references.  

2. The exactness of the wording of the AV vs. the modern versions.
I firmly believe that the AV is more exact in its description of the holy things of God in the AV than the modern versions.  I cite just several examples here and there are many more:

1. Pure vs. flawless – In the AV the word the Spirit often uses to describe God’s words is “pure”.  Pure carries with it in the definition “holy”.  Look up flawless (definition), which many of the modern version use to describe the word and you will see that holy is not part of being flawless.  Illustration – a septic tank can be flawless but not pure. Is the word flawless?  Yes it is but it is more – it is pure for it is holy for God and Christ are holy.

Perhaps you could provide an example in which this situation appears?

2. Preeminence vs. sovereign – Look at Col. 1:18 and you will see that Christ has the preeminence, which carries with it in the definition “integrity”.  Many of the modern versions change preeminence to “sovereign” which does not carry with it integrity.  Illustration – Hitler was sovereign over Germany in WWI but did he have integrity?  With Jesus you have integrity.

I'm afraid this point is just off the mark.  Preeminence, at least in the dictionaries I have looked at, does not carry the idea of integrity anymore than sovereign does.  And the ESV has preeminent anyway.  The NASB does not use sovereign.  Neither does the NIV.  The NKJV has preeminence.  

Point – the AV is more accurate in its descriptions.  The above were but 2 but there are countless more.  One can say the modern versions are more accurate and exact than the AV in places.  I doubt it – it may appear to but you have to change the words and I believe God gave us the adjectives, etc. He wanted to use for us.  Modern versions may give another “slant” but when it comes to how the AV describes our Lord you can’t beat the AV!

I do not see that the AV is more accurate.  If those are your representative examples, I'm afraid I can't see that your position is supported.  How is that you know that God wanted us to use the adjectives put in the KJV?  

Also - Some Subtle Doctrinal Changes:
Here the saint is saved.
AV - 1 Cor 1:18  For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are “saved” it is the power of God.

Here the saint is in a process of being saved – this is because to Origen salvation was a process – works.
NIV - 1 Cor 1:18  For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are “being saved” it is the power of God.

I see three problems with this.  One, there is no doctrine changed in the difference of those translations.  Salvation does have a past (justification) aspect, a present aspect (sanctification), and a future aspect (glorification).  Two, how does Origen have anything to do with the NIV?  Three, you have made no reference to the Greek and what the word actually is.  

Here the faith is of the operation of God.
Col 2:12  Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Here the work is transferred from the operation of God to one’s faith in the power God!
Col 2:12  having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

I'm afraid I really cannot see your point here.  There is no doctrine changed in this that I can see.

Here we see it is the faith of Christ, which justifies the sinner.
AV - Gal 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ,

Here we see that it is one’s faith in Christ, which justifies – how can our faith do anything?  The faith of Christ has been transferred to man’s faith.  There is a big difference between Christ’s faith and ours.
Gal 2:16  know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

Again, no doctrine changed--just differences in understanding how Iesou Christou is being used.  You don't believe in justification by faith alone?  

Again - not trying to stir it up but to get folks to think if they have not seen such things before.  My purpose is for saints to have no doubts in the God’s word, which I believe to be found in the AV.  And by having no doubts this will give strength, boldness, and comfort thus drawing saints closer to our Saviour.

God bless

I appreciate your heart for God's Word and your desire for confidence.  That is commendable.

One other thing.  It has been said as well that the KJV follows 99% of the Greek Text.  I am sorry, but that information is just not accurate.  

Joel