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Author Topic: Biblical Creation vs. Evolution  (Read 138834 times)
nChrist
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« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2005, 06:36:42 PM »

Quote
PR.........thou shalt not hit me, (if ye chose to do so) even with the bible. God will get ya!

Not if I do so in words only. I stay safe that way.  Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin



 Cheesy  Now I feel safer. If we were about to start hitting each other over the head with Bibles, I have one over 200 years old with leather-bound covers almost 1/2 inch thick. I think it weighs about 40 pounds. Now that I think about it, someone else might have something on stone tablets, so we're better off using just words.  Grin

By the way, I can't remember what translation that old family Bible is. I just know that it's a beautiful work of art.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 150:6  Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.
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« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2005, 07:35:44 PM »

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PR.........thou shalt not hit me, (if ye chose to do so) even with the bible. God will get ya!

Not if I do so in words only. I stay safe that way.  Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin


Quote

 Cheesy  Now I feel safer.  Now that I think about it, someone else might have something on stone tablets Grin

Tom

Quote

ROFL.........stone tablets!  Oh my!  Maybe he'll send in lions and tigers and bears, too.  Oh my!  Vain imaginations.  Oh my!  Just look at what you've done PR! Grin  Like words are nothin'. Humph!  


 
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« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2005, 07:50:17 PM »

Quote
PR.........thou shalt not hit me, (if ye chose to do so) even with the bible. God will get ya!

Not if I do so in words only. I stay safe that way.  Cheesy Cheesy Grin Grin


Quote

 Cheesy  Now I feel safer.  Now that I think about it, someone else might have something on stone tablets Grin

Tom

Quote

ROFL.........stone tablets!  Oh my!  Maybe he'll send in lions and tigers and bears, too.  Oh my!  Vain imaginations.  Oh my!  Just look at what you've done PR! Grin  Like words are nothin'. Humph!  


 
The Words Of God are more powerful........


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« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2005, 03:31:28 PM »

Creationist Condemns Catholic Cardinal's Compromise on Evolution

by Jim Brown
July 14, 2005

(AgapePress) - Washington, DC's Cardinal Theodore McCarrick says Roman Catholics do not have to believe in the biblical account of creation. He recently told reporters at the National Press Club that, instead of the Bible's account of God creating Adam and Eve, Catholics can believe in evolution -- as long as they agree that God was involved.

McCarrick says a contemporary Catholic "need not say that creationism is the only answer -- that in six days or seven days, God made the world." That, he contends, is only "the beautiful story of Genesis." But Ken Ham of the creation apologetics group Answers in Genesis says Catholics need to think through the consequences of such a statement as the one the DC Cardinal suggests.

"If you're going to believe in evolution," Ham asserts, "and say that God took an ape man and made a soul to make Adam, and God took an ape woman and made a soul to make Eve, then the woman came from an ape woman. She didn't come from Adam. And if the woman didn't come from Adam's side, then you've got a major problem."

By accepting this idea that evolution accounts for the origin of man, the creation scientist says, "You've just destroyed the whole basis of marriage, the whole basis of oneness in marriage and even Christ's relationship to the Church, which is based upon the doctrine of marriage -- the church being the bride of Christ."

McCarrick claims this concept of "theistic evolution" -- accepting Darwin's evolutionary theory as truth but understanding the process as having been guided by God -- was the view of the late Pope John Paul. That view of origins was echoed last week by a leading European cardinal as well.

But Ham believes the Roman Catholic Church's embrace of theistic evolution is a direct assault against scripture. Unfortunately, he says, the Catholic Church is telling the next generation that it is okay to use man's ideas to reinterpret the Word of God.

"The issue about believing in millions of years and evolution undermines biblical authority," the AIG spokesman says. "That's the real issue -- using man's fallible ideas to say the Bible is not the absolute authority. And that's the problem with much of the Church, and the problem you find in the Catholic Church, where the Bible is really not the ultimate authority. It's really the Church [that is considered] the ultimate authority."

Ham insists that any person of faith who does not believe in literal, biblical creation as described in Genesis will have a serious problem, because he says the truth found there is foundation to every single biblical doctrine of theology.
Jim Brown, a regular contributor to AgapePress, is a reporter for American Family Radio News, which can be heard online.

http://news.christiansunite.com/Religion_News/religion03010.shtml

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Oh, that's hideous.  The catholics need to get McCarrick out of there.  You know, the enemy comes from within sometimes.  How do we know what McCarrick says is true?  Who's McCarrick that he can say catholics can believe this way?  He's not the authority of the catholic church.  Better believe this will get some publicity on the TV talk shows. Maybe O'Reilly or Hannity and Colmes.  Humm.  I'm sure one big bunch of catholics will not like this at all.  The pope isn't here to defend himself so I don't know what his belief was.  People lie.  If this was his belief, then I'm absolutely appalled. I really would like to hear the catholic rebuttal on this.  Oh, it will be interesting.

In my opinion this is how problems begin.  One person saying something is true when it isn't, and then gossip gets around until everyone believes it.  Not all catholics love God and not all protestants love God either.

It is my understanding that the catholic church is the authority because it is the catholic church who interprets the bible for the faithful.  In a way, itsure beats personal interpretation.  Don't hit me over the head now guys for saying that.







I found this article at PROBE Ministries about Pope JP2's view on evolution, for whatever it's worth to anyone.

http://www.probe.org/content/view/642/134/


 
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Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2005, 01:16:53 AM »

Creationists Explain Dinosaurs, Ice Age, Flood, Big Bang
2,000 creationists gathered for the nation's premier Creationism conference from July 15-22.

Thursday, Jul. 21, 2005 Posted: 11:05:22AM EST

More than 2,000 Christians and supporters of creationism gathered for the nation's premier Creationism conference.

 The 2005 Creation Mega-Conference, slated from Jul. 17 to 22 in Lynchburg, Va. tackled several prominent issues facing the creation/evolution debate, such as the dinosaurs, the flood and Big Bang theory.

The six-day conference opened with a performance by Buddy Davis - a Dinosaur sculptor, author/speaker, and musician, whose keynote presentations clarified the creationist's take on issues such as the age of the earth and fossils.

David Dewitt, Director of the Center for Creation Studies and associate professor of Biology explained in a nutshell, "We believe that Adam and Eve were real people and that God created everything in six 24-hour days."

In "Rocks Around the Clock: The Eons That Never Were," Geologist Dr. Emil Silvestru rejectedmthe notion that the earth had existed for millions of years, and instead offered a six thousand year chronology: Creation, six days, Lost World, 1700 years, no big mountains, no plate tectonics, Flood, 370 days, creation of high mountains, deep oceans, sedimentary rocks, plate tectonics form continents, Ice Age, 1000 years, and Post Ice Age, 3000 years.

Flood hydrology is a belief that the flood covered the entire earth.

Dinosaurs were also explained. According to John Whitcomb, co-author of the seminal creationist book, The Genesis Flood (1961), Noah's ark carried 1,000 different kinds of dinosaurs as well as all of the other species, and the book has sold more than a quarter of a million copies in English.

Considered the father of modern creationism, Whitcomb is critical of those who accept progressive creationism or intelligent design.

The intelligent design movement tries to defeat evolution without any reference to the Bible or the Creator of the World, he said.

"Are people believing in Christ their Lord and Savior as a result of hearing the message of intelligent design scholars?" he asked.

Ken Ham, president of AiG, rejects the Big Bang because Genesis explains God created the waters and Earth on the third day, and the sun, moon and stars on the fourth day.

In his talk "What's the Best Evidence that God Created," Carl Kerby said, "You should allow the Word of God to drive your understanding of the evidence."

According to one assessment, at the root of the creationist argument is the concern that evolution undermines moral beliefs, leading to lawlessness, family breakdown, homosexuality, pornography, and abortion.

If evolution is true, said Philip Bell in his talk, and we are descended from ape-like animals with no morality, no aesthetic sensibility and no soul," then "you would have no purpose for your existence."

"If we don't understand the young earth and how God created it in six 24-hour days, then our values are skewed, said the Reverend Jerry Falwell, and he is hopeful that "The biblical account is the believable one. The creation debate is being won."

Talks today will include, "Hubble, Bubble, Big Bang in Trouble" and "Fossils, the Flood and the Age of the Earth."


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« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2005, 05:17:55 AM »

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In his talk "What's the Best Evidence that God Created," Carl Kerby said, "You should allow the Word of God to drive your understanding of the evidence."

According to one assessment, at the root of the creationist argument is the concern that evolution undermines moral beliefs, leading to lawlessness, family breakdown, homosexuality, pornography, and abortion.

If evolution is true, said Philip Bell in his talk, and we are descended from ape-like animals with no morality, no aesthetic sensibility and no soul," then "you would have no purpose for your existence."

AMEN!!!

Almighty God created the Heavens and the Earth exactly as described in Genesis!

Pastor Roger, I really wonder about how many people have never read the truth about creation. I feel led to post it brother, so I will.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hebrews 13:15-16 ASV  Through him then let us offer up a sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of lips which make confession to his name.  But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

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« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2005, 02:20:08 AM »

Evolutionist Admits False Assertions Against Critic of Darwin's Theories

by By Jim Brown
August 1, 2005

(AgapePress) - The head of a pro-evolution think tank has issued a retraction for factual misstatements and false allegations she made in an article attacking a California man who wants the scientific weaknesses of Darwin's theory of evolution taught in public school science classes.

In her retraction, director Eugenie Scott of the National Center for Science Education (NCSE) conceded that she wrongly accused Roseville attorney Larry Caldwell of submitting two books on young-Earth creation to the local school board for adoption -- one of which was published by the Jehovah's Witnesses. Scott also admits to erroneously claiming that a science expert found Caldwell to have "a gross misunderstanding of the nature of science."

Scott's retraction comes after Caldwell filed a libel lawsuit against the director and against the NCSE over the recent article she wrote, which was published in California Wild: the Magazine of the California Academy of Sciences, and which contained the false statements at the heart of the lawsuit. Caldwell says he was gratified to learn that the California Academy of Sciences was willing to publish the retraction. He feels even pro-evolution scientists must realize that the integrity of their position is at stake when false allegations and misinformation take the place of fair, rational, and well-informed debate.

As the target of Scott's error-filled article, the California attorney says he hopes the settlement of his libel suit against her will change the way the pro-Darwin crowd approaches the controversy over evolution and science education. "When the Darwinists aren't sticking to the truth in public debates," he says, "it's causing people to start to question the claims they're making about evolution in the classroom."

What Caldwell is hoping, he adds, is that the proponents of Darwin's theories will realize the need to stick to the truth. That is essential, he says, "because this debate over how we teach evolution in public biology classes is just way too important to have it decided on the basis of false statements and what I call 'science fiction.'"

While some critics have suggested that evolution science advocates try to shut down debate over alternate theories by discrediting their proponents, that tactic has apparently not worked in Caldwell's case. Ironically, the Roseville man points out, Dr. Scott has credited his libel suit with sparking an "absolute explosion" of evolution debates around the country.
Jim Brown, a regular contributor to AgapePress, is a reporter for American Family Radio News, which can be heard online.

http://news.christiansunite.com/Religion_News/religion03092.shtml

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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2005, 09:29:47 AM »

criss quote...

Quote
Oh, that's hideous.  The catholics need to get McCarrick out of there.  You know, the enemy comes from within sometimes.  How do we know what McCarrick says is true?  Who's McCarrick that he can say catholics can believe this way?  He's not the authority of the catholic church.  Better believe this will get some publicity on the TV talk shows. Maybe O'Reilly or Hannity and Colmes.  Humm.  I'm sure one big bunch of catholics will not like this at all.  The pope isn't here to defend himself so I don't know what his belief was.  People lie.  If this was his belief, then I'm absolutely appalled. I really would like to hear the catholic rebuttal on this.  Oh, it will be interesting.

In my opinion this is how problems begin.  One person saying something is true when it isn't, and then gossip gets around until everyone believes it.  Not all catholics love God and not all protestants love God either.

It is my understanding that the catholic church is the authority because it is the catholic church who interprets the bible for the faithful.  In a way, itsure beats personal interpretation.  Don't hit me over the head now guys for saying that.

 The Catholic Church was taken over by the Illuminati years ago. The leaders in that Church do not believe the Bible literally. I won't go into any exhaustive details - it's very complex, but it is true my friends.

 This is not to say all Catholics are non-believers. I know many Catholics; my sister in law is one, as is my niece, both of whom I love very much. They are faithful Bible believing Christians. There are many Catholics here on C.U. who are faithful, Bible believing Christians. The leaders are politically motivated, and very powerful. Pope John Paul II was not a part of this underground group. The truth of the matter is that the Popes aren't actually in control, and some of them have been murdered for not playing along, and this is in the not so far off past my friends. So when I hear statements such as "we don't have to take creation literal" I am not at all surprised.
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cris
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« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2005, 11:09:10 AM »


Hey there Bronze,

I didn't know this.  This is the first time I've heard about it.  Where did you get this info or maybe I should say, where can I get some more info on this?  Very interesting indeed.  Talk about the enemy coming from within!  Guess I better add the catholic church to my already long daily prayer list.  If I disappear from CU you'll know what I'm doing. Wink Smiley  Seems as if I'm a little longer in prayer everyday.  For this very reason, some mornings I put off prayer for "just a few more minutes" because I know how long it takes.  Once I'm in prayer though, I just seem transported into God's presence and really don't want to end those prayers.  Anyone else like this?

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PeterAV
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« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2005, 01:26:55 PM »

Yes,My wife and I can easilt spend an hour in passionate prayer,and we stop just because we need physical rest,from it.Then we are at it again.It goes in waves,sometimes not as often,and other times a couple times a day.

Back to creation the winner,and Evolution the aleady looser.
*******
Copyright May 18, 2005 2:55 AM CST
By Dr. Michael J. Bisconti
 
Now that the Theory of Evolution has been disproven, why is it still taught in our schools?  Here are ten reasons:

1.      Many schools and school systems haven’t learned that the Theory of Evolution has been disproven.

2.      Many biology teachers and other teachers of evolution haven’t learned that the Theory of Evolution has been disproven.

3.      Many biology teachers and other teachers of evolution are unwilling to face reality.

4.      Many evolutionists are afraid that religion will take over the schools and school systems.

5.      Evolutionist lecturers and writers would stop earning the more than $1 billion they earn every year by preaching evolution.

6.      Biology textbook publishers would have to spend $3 billion rewriting the biology textbooks.

7.      Schools, colleges, and universities would lose $10 billion in government grants provided for the purpose of advancing the Theory of Evolution.

8.      Over one hundred thousand evolutionary biologists and other scientists would be humiliated before the eyes of the entire world.

9.      A number of evolutionary biologists and other scientists would have to admit to lies, evasions, and incompetence in their research.

10.  Evolutionary biologists would finally have to acknowledge the superiority of Physics over Biology in answering one of the great questions of life – the origin of life.
*******

Relentless for Christ Jesus and his words,
PeterAV
Thy word is truth.
John17:17

 
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PeterAV
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« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2005, 01:38:52 PM »

Both Evolution and Creationism should not be taught in the classroom.
Hows that for a wrinkle!
Check it out.
*******

Copyright May 23, 2005 6:58 AM CST
By Dr. Michael J. Bisconti
 
Updated May 28, 2005 3:46 AM CST
Copyright May 28, 2005 3:46 AM CST
By Dr. Michael J. Bisconti

God says no to both evolution and creationism in science classes!  Why?  Each is a mixture of faith and science.  Evolution involves faith in natural forces.  Creationism involves faith in natural forces and in God.  In each case, faith is involved.  When we remove the faith element from evolution we are left with science.  When we remove the faith element from creationism we are left with science.  The science extracted from evolution is identical to the science extracted from creationism.  It is this science that must be taught in science classes.

Furthermore, currently, both evolution and creationism are uninformed to a degree with regard to what constitutes science.  This is where physics (especially, the Unified Field Theory) comes in.  Very simply, matter does not move about aimlessly.  Matter follows a plan.  Matter follows a certain path.  Electrons orbit the nuclei of atoms.  They don’t decide one day to just get up and leave and go to another atom.  Physical objects on the surface of the earth stay on the surface of the earth.  They don’t just decide one day to go flying off into outer space.  Magnets stick to iron.  They don’t just decide one day to stick to wood or plastic.  Science is, fundamentally, the description of matter and of the observed behavior of matter.

For centuries, of course, the human race has been led to believe that science includes a description of the agents (things that act) that move matter.  This is false.  Once you begin to talk about the agents that move matter, believed to be God or natural forces or magical elves, you have left the realm of science and entered the realm of “scientific belief.”  (Make no mistake…we believe in both God and in natural forces.)  Scientific belief is not science.  Evolutionists have one scientific belief, creationists have another.  All science can say is that there are “unknown agents” that move matter.  Science does not include the knowledge of the nature of these agents but it does include the knowledge of the existence and behavior of these agents.

There is much more we have to say on the subject of the “agents that move matter” but we will have to save that for another time.  We must point out that human beings have an instinct that drives them to pursue both science and scientific belief.  You cannot avoid pursuing science.  You cannot avoid pursuing scientific belief.  If you decide to ignore both science and scientific belief, then, in effect, science and scientific belief will pursue you.  In the end, you cannot help but possess both science and scientific belief.

We recommend that schools start teaching a new subject called “Scientific Fideism.”  “Fideism” is pronounced “fee-day-i-zum.”  A course in Scientific Fideism is a course in scientific belief.  In such a class, both evolution and creationism can be presented as possible explanations of the “agents that move matter” in the biological realm.  Of course, from a scientific perspective, creationism is far, far more probable than evolution and our personal belief is in creationism.
*******

Relentless for Crist Jesus and his pure words,
PeterAV
Thy word is truth.
John17:17

 
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nChrist
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« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2005, 09:48:08 PM »

Brothers and Sisters,

I don't think that evolution should be taught at all in school. I would view it like many other topics that should not be forced on our children (i.e. acceptance of alternative lifestyles).

Some of the controversial topics have opt out provisions for parents these days, but I don't think this is good enough. As a compromise, let the parents have an opt in if they want all this garbage taught to their children. In terms of creation as part of the mandatory curriculum, let it be the truth of Genesis or none at all.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Corinthians 1:30-31 ASV  But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption:  that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
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« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2005, 04:49:37 PM »

Brothers and Sisters,

WOW! - The latest additions to the "In The Beginning" thread by Bronzesnake are fascinating. Read them carefully and many questions will be answered.

The Great Flood in the time of Noah is not a myth, and I found it fascinating to look at the effects of such a flood and other events. Scientists have spent hundreds of years to develop theories about what God's Word can explain in minutes. There is no irony that more of the Holy Bible is shown to be ABSOLUTE TRUTH by the minute, and the opposite is true for the theory of evolution.

The theory of evolution is an embarrassment to the scientific community, and it is literally falling apart before our eyes as garbage. Please let me remind readers that there is NO invitation to debate the theory of evolution here. The theory of evolution contradicts the Holy Bible and isn't permitted here. It makes me sad to know that the reverse is true in our schools.

Bronzesnake, thanks for some more fascinating information to study and digest. I also appreciate you explaining things in a way that plain folks like me can understand.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Genesis 1:1-3 NASB  In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.  The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.  Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2005, 05:13:14 PM »

Thankee Tom.  Cheesy

I have a real passion on my heart from Jesus for this stuff.
I explain it the way I understand it.
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« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2005, 07:22:53 PM »

Quote
Although it may take more than one impact to produce the worldwide flood conditions described in the scriptures, asteroid or comet impacts could most certainly cause the flood conditions given in the Bible.

There are two other possibilities that are posed by creation scientists. One is that there are asteroids of ice and that we had a swarm of them hit the earth all at once. This is possible as our scientists have seend evidence of a few of these today.

There is another one that is more recent. The Bible tells us that in the early days of the earth that a mist arose from the earth (Gen 2:6). One scientists believes that this condition was because of a sort of hydrogen bubble surrounding the earth. Through experiments he created such a condition. In his experiments the condition created an atmosphere that was higher in oxygen and prevented fewer harmful rays from passing through to the surface. In this condition things grew bigger and lived longer.

If this bubble were to burst (Gen 7:11 ...and the windows of heaven were opened.) the hydrogen mixing with the very high atmosphere of oxygen and guess what you have ......

It would indeed appear as if the windows of heaven were opened.

What could possibly break such a hydrogen bubble? Perhaps an asteroid shower. Without the protection of this bubble life would be shorter.

Add all this to what you have presented already and you have a major worldwide event, enough water to cover the entire earth in 40 days.

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