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Melody
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« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2005, 09:48:04 PM »

Here's my thoughts...He's already been inaugeruated into office now. Grow up and get over it. You may not like it, but face it, Bush won, God must have wanted him in office, get over it and move on with your life.

Yes, obviously God did want him in office...but one ponders "why"?

While I was ranting over how people could possibly re-elect a man who has been proven a liar, it suddenly occurred to me that in order for Revelations to be played out, all the right players have to be in place so satan can fulfill his role.  I see George Bush as helping to set the stage with his arrogance and war mongering.  

I no longer worry about Georgie boy.  I am reminded that I am to be "in" the world, not "of" it.  What will happen, will happen as God planned from the beginning.

Melody


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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2005, 09:53:36 PM »

Here's my thoughts...He's already been inaugeruated into office now. Grow up and get over it. You may not like it, but face it, Bush won, God must have wanted him in office, get over it and move on with your life.

Yes, obviously God did want him in office...but one ponders "why"?

While I was ranting over how people could possibly re-elect a man who has been proven a liar, it suddenly occurred to me that in order for Revelations to be played out, all the right players have to be in place so satan can fulfill his role.  I see George Bush as helping to set the stage with his arrogance and war mongering.  

I no longer worry about Georgie boy.  I am reminded that I am to be "in" the world, not "of" it.  What will happen, will happen as God planned from the beginning.

Melody




 Just curious...exactly when was Bush proved to be a liar? and what was the lie?
 Have you ever been proven to be a liar my friend?

 Bronzesnake
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Melody
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« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2005, 10:26:41 PM »


 Just curious...exactly when was Bush proved to be a liar? and what was the lie?
 Have you ever been proven to be a liar my friend?

 Bronzesnake

The fact that you ask the question says I can never convince you that he did.  

As for your second question....no, not only have I never been proven a liar....but I don't lie....about anything.  It's one of my little quirks....one that my family and friends have learned to respect over the years lest they ask me a question they really don't want the truth on.


Melody
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nChrist
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« Reply #33 on: January 29, 2005, 12:00:58 AM »

Bingo!

God wants George W. Bush as the President of the United States.

Yes?

No?

What do you think?


There are several lessons in the Holy Bible about this very subject, but for probably different reasons than those stated.

Well, on top of everything else, the American people put George W. Bush in office, and they could have taken him out of office. So, we have a President for 4 more years - end of the story - the people have spoken.

Now, it's a matter of how we go forward with our President. The election is over - water under the bridge. The losers need to quit being cry babies and learn how to do something positive for their country. Things will go forward with the losers or without them, so they may as well lend some positive input to what already is and will be.

If any world leader fits into the plan of Almighty God, no power on earth will be able to stop or slow the plan of GOD. The same is true that no power on earth can hasten the plan of Almighty God by even 1 second. The plan and will of Almighty God will be fulfilled at exactly His appointed time and way.

GOD'S WILL BE DONE!

It will be regardless. It is time for the cry babies to do the work of the people or go home. If they don't, the people will help them go home with each election and put someone else in the office who will do the work of the people. No amount of crying, whining, and complaining will change the results of the election. It is over, and George W. Bush is our President. I give thanks for that, but some of you probably disagree. There are obviously some who will try to cripple our country and cry for the next four years. Does anyone know where we can buy some crying towels?   Cheesy

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 18:46  The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and let the God of my salvation be exalted.
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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #34 on: January 29, 2005, 12:31:22 AM »


 Just curious...exactly when was Bush proved to be a liar? and what was the lie?
 Have you ever been proven to be a liar my friend?

 Bronzesnake

The fact that you ask the question says I can never convince you that he did.  

As for your second question....no, not only have I never been proven a liar....but I don't lie....about anything.  It's one of my little quirks....one that my family and friends have learned to respect over the years lest they ask me a question they really don't want the truth on.


Melody


 There is a difference between being wrong and being a liar.
I know that many people honestly believe Bush lied about WMD's, and that's fair. However, there is very good evidence which points to the fact that Russian agents were in Iraq just prior to the beginning of the war. They were at weapons depots, and they left with a large convoy of covered military trucks and were seen via satellite entering Syria.
 What do you think was in the trucks my friend? It's not as black and white as you may think.

 Are you familiar with espionage? Have you ever considered the possibility that the U.S. was set up by Russia - China - Egypt - Syria etc? Can you come up with any scenarios as to why such countries would want the U.S. to appear to be...
 A) Oil and war hungry
 
 B) Attacking Islam

 C) Inept at intelligence

 Consider this...Russia was in on the secret schedule for the start of hostilities against Iraq, Russia knew exactly when they could safely enter Iraq, collect weapons and cross into Syria.

 The implications are mind boggling my friend. So perhaps you should hold back on your judgements against a man you don't even know.

 P.S. Everyone has lied many times throughout our lives my friend.

Bronzesnake
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Melody
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« Reply #35 on: January 29, 2005, 09:05:24 AM »


 The implications are mind boggling my friend. So perhaps you should hold back on your judgements against a man you don't even know.

 P.S. Everyone has lied many times throughout our lives my friend.

Bronzesnake

OH my....you tell me to hold back judgment and yet you just made one me by stating *everyone* has lied.  Where is your "holding back judgment?"

I repeat.   I never lie.  Not even as a child.  I was known as a goody two shoes and have continued that life as an adult.  Not because I'm better than anyone else but because that's the way God made me.  That's not to say I don't have other little vices I need to work on.  It's just that lying was never that vice.

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Melody
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« Reply #36 on: January 29, 2005, 09:12:01 AM »

BEP,
You have no more proof that he was misled than I do that he lied.  We are basing our views on our own perceptions.  

You appear to believe that other countries are out to get us and are somehow setting us up.  While I agree that may be true to a point, I also believe our own government is not above "setting us up" so they have an excuse to go to war.  Did they?  I don't know and I don't have the time or inclination to worry about it.  I am in this world, not of it.  What will be, will be.

Just because someone is against Bush, his war and his government, it doesn't make them "cry babies" and when you resort to name calling, it makes what you have to say somehow less valuable.  It also does not go well with calling others "brother and sister" or signing your posts "Love in Christ."  I doubt Christ would have called others names just because they disagreed with him.

It reminds me of the story our pastor told last Sunday of a woman who was pulled over by a cop and when she asked why, he said, "Well, you were driving like a demon, honking your horn at anyone who slowed you down and flipping people off who got in your way.  When I noticed the Christian bumper stickers on your car, I just knew this car had been stolen because a Christian wouldn't act that way."

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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2005, 11:09:24 AM »


 The implications are mind boggling my friend. So perhaps you should hold back on your judgements against a man you don't even know.

 P.S. Everyone has lied many times throughout our lives my friend.

Bronzesnake

OH my....you tell me to hold back judgment and yet you just made one me by stating *everyone* has lied.  Where is your "holding back judgment?"

I repeat.   I never lie.  Not even as a child.  I was known as a goody two shoes and have continued that life as an adult.  Not because I'm better than anyone else but because that's the way God made me.  That's not to say I don't have other little vices I need to work on.  It's just that lying was never that vice.



 Melody. stateing a fact, that we have all lied in our lifetimes is not judgement, it's a factual statement. Specifically pointing a finger at an individual and calling them a liar is not necessarily judgement either as long as it's true. I can safely say that you do not have inside information in regard to Bush being a liar. You base you "judgement" on media reports. The media is not privy to national or foreign security issues, and they only speculate on the side of their own political affiliation. For every article that proclaims Bush to be a liar, I can provide one at least, which exhonerates Bush.

 Telling people that you have "never" lied even as a child, is in fact, a lie, and it ruins your credibillity my friend. No honest person would ever believe that there is any human being, alive or dead, that never told lies.

 We have all lied at some time during our lives. Especially as children. Kids always lie. Mom; "Did you color on the wall?"  Child; "no"  Wink

Bronzesnake
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Melody
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« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2005, 11:41:23 AM »

We have all lied at some time during our lives. Especially as children. Kids always lie. Mom; "Did you color on the wall?"  Child; "no"  Wink

Bronzesnake

And yet you do not know me or my life.  You are making a judgment on me and my life.

You state all people lie as if it is an impossibility for someone to be honest at all times.  By that rational, I would say that *all* people at some time in their life have murdered someone.

I'm sure you won't agree with that so my question to you is, why is it difficult to believe that you can make it through life without murdering, but not that you can me it through life without lying.  Is it because you think lying is a trivial thing in most people's minds and so is more easily done than murder?

I don't think lying is a trivial thing and never have.  Btw....I never drew on the walls as a child.  My mother used to say I was the perfect child, which I translate to boring, but it did not give me opportunities for needing to lie.

When people ask me a question (does this make me look fat), I will answer tactfully but honestly.  I've lost jobs because I wouldn't lie for my boss even by telling someone on the phone that he "had just stepped out of the office."

So please, do not begin to think you know me or can condemn me as a liar.  It doesn't speak well of you as a Christian....even if you do try to cloak it in trying to show someone the error of their ways.
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cris
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« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2005, 12:16:56 PM »


 The implications are mind boggling my friend. So perhaps you should hold back on your judgements against a man you don't even know.

 P.S. Everyone has lied many times throughout our lives my friend.

Bronzesnake

OH my....you tell me to hold back judgment and yet you just made one me by stating *everyone* has lied.  Where is your "holding back judgment?"

I repeat.   I never lie.  Not even as a child.  I was known as a goody two shoes and have continued that life as an adult.  Not because I'm better than anyone else but because that's the way God made me.  That's not to say I don't have other little vices I need to work on.  It's just that lying was never that vice.



 Melody. stateing a fact, that we have all lied in our lifetimes is not judgement, it's a factual statement. Specifically pointing a finger at an individual and calling them a liar is not necessarily judgement either as long as it's true. I can safely say that you do not have inside information in regard to Bush being a liar. You base you "judgement" on media reports. The media is not privy to national or foreign security issues, and they only speculate on the side of their own political affiliation. For every article that proclaims Bush to be a liar, I can provide one at least, which exhonerates Bush.

 Telling people that you have "never" lied even as a child, is in fact, a lie, and it ruins your credibillity my friend. No honest person would ever believe that there is any human being, alive or dead, that never told lies.

 We have all lied at some time during our lives. Especially as children. Kids always lie. Mom; "Did you color on the wall?"  Child; "no"  Wink

Bronzesnake


Granted, I haven't read all the posts on this thread, but thought I'd add my 2 cents worth on this last one.

I, too, never lied as a child.  I was taught that truth was everything, therefore, lying wasn't an option.  I would report things I had done wrong even before anyone knew about them.  I guess I was building character way back then without realizing it.  I thought everyone was like me in that they didn't lie, either.  I trusted just about everyone.  I don't have any idea how old I was when I realized people lied.  Sorry, I was an adult when that happened.  Naive?  Yep!  Wish I still were that naive.  It's so great living in a world believing most people are truthful.  It isn't the world I live in now.  This almost sounds like the story of Adam and Eve and the serpent.  When they ate the fruit, indeed, their eyes were opened and they knew good and evil.  Geez, it WAS great not knowing.

I understand where you're coming from, Melody.

Bronzesnake, there are children out there who don't lie.  Besides Melody, I was another.

cris

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Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2005, 12:47:52 PM »

I have a son that "did not lie" as a child or so he thought. It was just that he did not preceive that what he was saying to be a lie. He thought that what he was saying to be the truth so therefore it was the truth.

I.E. He was playing with his friends and said some things that made the other kids made enough to hit him. When asked about the situation he said that the other kids started the fight. In his eyes the other child started it because they took the first swing not because he mouthed off to them and provoked them.

Lies or truth, it is in the eyes of the beholder or the eyes of the one telling it.



 
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Joh 9:4  I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
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« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2005, 02:50:42 PM »

Brothers and Sisters,

There is only one who ever walked this earth who never lied, JESUS CHRIST! That's just a plain and simple fact. We are all guilty of lying and many other sins. We are all violators of the Law that no man could keep. JESUS CHRIST fulfilled the Law and died on the cross for our sins.

The only righteousness that a man has is as filthy rags. As Christians, our righteousness is in and through JESUS CHRIST alone. In other words, any righteousness seen in us is seen only THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. We were in desperate need of a SAVIOUR, and JESUS CHRIST was and is the only perfect Sacrifice for our sins. HIS SACRIFICE had to be a GIFT, simply because there is no man worthy, deserving, or able to earn Salvation. The work of Salvation was finished perfectly by Jesus Christ on the Cross, and it had to be because no man has any righteousness in and of himself.

If one says that they never lied, they are also saying that they never sinned. Again, there is only ONE who can make this statement in complete TRUTH, JESUS CHRIST! JESUS CHRIST is the only ONE who ever walked this earth that will be or can be called THE TRUTH. Without Jesus in our hearts, we can do nothing that is pleasing in HIS SIGHT.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 3:10  As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

John 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Philippians 3:7-14  But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

John 15:1-5  I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
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Melody
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« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2005, 04:03:26 PM »

[If one says that they never lied, they are also saying that they never sinned. Again, there is only ONE who can make this statement in complete TRUTH, JESUS CHRIST! JESUS CHRIST is the only ONE who ever walked this earth that will be or can be called THE TRUTH. Without Jesus in our hearts, we can do nothing that is pleasing in HIS SIGHT.
]

You make several wrong assertions here.

1.  If one says they've never lied, they're saying they've never sinned.
So by this do I infer that the only sin to be committed is the sin of lying?  There are obviously *many* sins you can commit.  Lying just isn't one of mine.

2.  You state that I have lied and this is based on fact.  Please post your facts as to instances where I have lied and please post your proof that I have lied.  Your *belief* that all people lie based on your own experiences is not proof, btw.

Pastor Roger, so you also believe that everyone lies or is delusional?  I'm beginning to pity both of you that the only relationships you've had in your life were full of deceit.

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nChrist
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« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2005, 04:57:54 PM »

Melody,

Sister, we can agree to disagree. I won't be contending anymore over your statement of self-righteousness. I'll simply say that if you want to read about the ONLY righteousness, read about JESUS in the Holy Bible. Our disagreement over your proclaimed self-righteousness does not diminish my love for you in Christ.

Love In Christ,
Tom

1 Timothy 6:4-6  He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain.
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Melody
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« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2005, 05:21:15 PM »

Melody,

Sister, we can agree to disagree. I won't be contending anymore over your statement of self-righteousness. I'll simply say that if you want to read about the ONLY righteousness, read about JESUS in the Holy Bible. Our disagreement over your proclaimed self-righteousness does not diminish my love for you in Christ.

BEP,
This isn't about agreeing or disagreeing.  You have insulted me by calling me a liar and now calling me self-righteous because I believe I'm not a liar.  Yes I am offended.

I need to go away from this forum for awhile because I find myself thinking uncharitable and unchristianlike thoughts.  I do not feel God's presence here and so I will depart.

Peace to you all,

Melody
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