4 MORE YEARS

[Future_Canadian]

From: ________
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 8:47 AM
To: mike@michaelmoore.com
Subject: On behalf of my son, John

Dear Michael,

My step-son ________ has been in Iraq since March 19th. Last night he spoke to my husband on the phone (no, not a phone provided by the US government, an Iraqi satellite phone which he pays for himself). His unit got hit in a mortar attack. He watched one of his comrades get his legs blown off. His buddy tied tourniquets around the other soldier's legs and managed to stop arterial bleeding, luckily he is still alive.

_______ tried to give one soldier (a woman MP) CPR but she died in his arms

_______ said that this is the worst it's been since the "end" of the war. He said the troops have been given new rules of engagement, and that they are to "take out" any persons who aggress on the Americans, even if it results in "collateral" damage. Unfortunately, _______ did have to kill someone in self defense and was told by his commanding officer "Good kill."

_______ replied "You just don't get it, do you?".

Here we are...Vietnam all over again.

_______ is a peace-loving 25 year old who enlisted to pay off his undergraduate loans (45K!) and to get free grad school. He never believed he would be put in a situation like this.

My husband, who served in Vietnam, was a consultant to the defense industry for 20+ years. On March 19th he quit his job, (even though he had a ten year contract left) in protest of this administration's policies. Money is definitely tighter around our house but we wouldn't have it any other way!

I want to thank you for getting the truth out there, Michael. I no longer watch or read any mainstream media and have encouraged everyone I know to do the same. Your books and videos will be my Christmas gifts to everyone this year (including my right-wing family in Buffalo!).


Thank you, Thank you
Don't stop doing what you do!

___________
__________, Virginia
__________________

[Bronzesnake]

 Oh ya, I believe that's a legitimate letter. I wonder how it got out of Moores greesy hands and onto the net. I can produce a nice letter also...would you like to read what mine says?

 

_______ is a peace-loving 25 year old who enlisted to pay off his undergraduate loans (45K!) and to get free grad school. He never believed he would be put in a situation like this.

 That's so typical! Hey Sad Sack, if you don't want to be a soldier, don't join the army!!!
The army isn't a free ride welfare system my friend. The education aspect is a benefit to "soldiers" who may some day have to actually fight and even be killed. Don't act so surprised to know this - it's not a secret!

 Please...don't come here to Canada, we have enough nut cases here already.

 Bronzesnake

[Soldier4Christ]

Please...don't come here to Canada, we have enough nut cases here already.

ROFL  


This one isn't worth the time.

[ollie]

It is very sad what the war in Iraq has done tp Americans and the world.

It brings out unChristian attitudes in the best of us no matter whether liberal or conservative.

Satan is working both sides against the middle folks.

Come ye out of it. Be ye seperate and holy unto God.

You too, ollie

ollie

[Shylynne]

 Please...don't come here to Canada, we have enough nut cases here already.
Bronzesnake

ROFL! Its true!  

They havent even figgered out what to do with me yet!  

[musicllover]

From: ________
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 8:47 AM
To: mike@michaelmoore.com
Subject: On behalf of my son, John

Dear Michael,

My step-son ________ has been in Iraq since March 19th. Last night he spoke to my husband on the phone (no, not a phone provided by the US government, an Iraqi satellite phone which he pays for himself). His unit got hit in a mortar attack. He watched one of his comrades get his legs blown off. His buddy tied tourniquets around the other soldier's legs and managed to stop arterial bleeding, luckily he is still alive.

_______ tried to give one soldier (a woman MP) CPR but she died in his arms

_______ said that this is the worst it's been since the "end" of the war. He said the troops have been given new rules of engagement, and that they are to "take out" any persons who aggress on the Americans, even if it results in "collateral" damage. Unfortunately, _______ did have to kill someone in self defense and was told by his commanding officer "Good kill."

_______ replied "You just don't get it, do you?".

Here we are...Vietnam all over again.

_______ is a peace-loving 25 year old who enlisted to pay off his undergraduate loans (45K!) and to get free grad school. He never believed he would be put in a situation like this.

My husband, who served in Vietnam, was a consultant to the defense industry for 20+ years. On March 19th he quit his job, (even though he had a ten year contract left) in protest of this administration's policies. Money is definitely tighter around our house but we wouldn't have it any other way!

I want to thank you for getting the truth out there, Michael. I no longer watch or read any mainstream media and have encouraged everyone I know to do the same. Your books and videos will be my Christmas gifts to everyone this year (including my right-wing family in Buffalo!).


Thank you, Thank you
Don't stop doing what you do!

___________
__________, Virginia
__________________

Hey someone got a picture of Michael Moore they can post on the troll site, he is their head troll.
Future Can,
              Do you honestly believe that this letter is going to fly on a Christian site? Maybe your young, maybe you don't know the truth about Mr Moore and his movie and most every movie has ever produced. But he is an idiot in the worse way, not a friend to Christians.......so why would you come to a Christian board and post this? Now if I am wrong forgive me but if your name has any reference to what you really believe and I am afraid it does, I'll help you pack.

musicllover

[nChrist]

Future_Canadian,

I don't know whether Canada will take you and Michael Moore. If not, we will take up a collection and help both of you leave to another part of the world, hopefully some place far away where we don't have to listen to you.  People fought for your right to be heard here, but you would be silenced in most of the world.

Even a troll like you will be heard here, but only if you obey the forum rules. You've already gotten two formal warnings about cursing and/or links to sites with cursing, so you will probably silence yourself.

This is a formal and public warning that your next violation of the forum rules will result in a magic act - YOUR DISAPPEARANCE!

Moderator

[Jemidon2004]

Here's my thoughts...He's already been inaugeruated into office now. Grow up and get over it. You may not like it, but face it, Bush won, God must have wanted him in office, get over it and move on with your life. I sit here and watch both christians and non christians argue and get down and depressed and just down right stubborn. So what your candidate didn't win....maybe he did if your for bush...the point is. Don't dwell on the past, focus on the present and what God wants you to do NOW. What happened happened. Let it go and move on with your lives. If we continue to look back over our shoulders, we're not going to see the sin that's about to smack us right in the head. Besides, if we look back, we're not going to see the trials that are coming our way, nor pay attention to God. I'm 17 years old. I'm not old enough to vote yet, but I do know this, all this complaining that Bush got re-elected has got to stop...if it doesn't it only leads to more division amongst us as Believers, and it shows a side to non-believers that would damage OUR witness. This is all i'm going to say on the subject, so for you older folks...time to suck it up and let it go, and follow GOD'S WILL. The moment we quit whining about the election and focus on what He has set before us, we'll be a lot better off. As Ecclesiastes says "For there is a time for everything" the time for complaining is up. And i'm not saying this to stomp on any toes, this goes out to everyone, because all to often when politics becomes involved, the focus goes OFF of God, and onto man, and that's not what God wants.  As we say at school, Make it a great day or not the choice is yours, here's another one, Make it a great 4 years or not, the choice is yours. God Bless

Joshua

[Bronzesnake]

Here's my thoughts...He's already been inaugeruated into office now. Grow up and get over it. You may not like it, but face it, Bush won, God must have wanted him in office, get over it and move on with your life. I sit here and watch both christians and non christians argue and get down and depressed and just down right stubborn. So what your candidate didn't win....maybe he did if your for bush...the point is. Don't dwell on the past, focus on the present and what God wants you to do NOW. What happened happened. Let it go and move on with your lives. If we continue to look back over our shoulders, we're not going to see the sin that's about to smack us right in the head. Besides, if we look back, we're not going to see the trials that are coming our way, nor pay attention to God. I'm 17 years old. I'm not old enough to vote yet, but I do know this, all this complaining that Bush got re-elected has got to stop...if it doesn't it only leads to more division amongst us as Believers, and it shows a side to non-believers that would damage OUR witness. This is all i'm going to say on the subject, so for you older folks...time to suck it up and let it go, and follow GOD'S WILL. The moment we quit whining about the election and focus on what He has set before us, we'll be a lot better off. As Ecclesiastes says "For there is a time for everything" the time for complaining is up. And i'm not saying this to stomp on any toes, this goes out to everyone, because all to often when politics becomes involved, the focus goes OFF of God, and onto man, and that's not what God wants.  As we say at school, Make it a great day or not the choice is yours, here's another one, Make it a great 4 years or not, the choice is yours. God Bless

Joshua

 well stated my brother!  

It is very sad what the war in Iraq has done tp Americans and the world.

It brings out unChristian attitudes in the best of us no matter whether liberal or conservative.

Satan is working both sides against the middle folks.

Come ye out of it. Be ye seperate and holy unto God.

You too, ollie

 Come on Ollie, can't we have any fun?  

Bronzesnake

[nChrist]

AMEN BROTHER JOSHUA!

I prayed for President Clinton every day that he was in office. He was not my choice, and he did many things that most Christians feel was an embarrassment to the entire world. But, that didn't change our prayers for him.

If Kerry had been elected, I would be praying for him every day, regardless of my agreement or disagreement with what he stands for.

President Bush was my choice, and he was elected. He deserves the prayers of every Christian every day, regardless of agreement or disagreement. Obstructionists do nothing but hurt our country. There will be another election in 4 years, and we should be praying for our President during those 4 years.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 1:3  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

[Jemidon2004]

Agreed...a nation of Believers UNDER God and standing up for God is a powerful force indeed. However, it's just a sign of the times....America's teetering on the edge...I just pray i'm not here to see her when she falls...for it will not be a pretty sight. Just a few thoughts.

Joshua

[M]

Future Canadian???

What does your post have to do with Canada?  
"_______ is a peace-loving 25 year old who enlisted to pay off his undergraduate loans (45K!) and to get free grad school. He never believed he would be put in a situation like this."  

I am tired of people complaining that they didn't sign up with the army to go to war.  They only joined so they could become a pilot, a doctor, a kindergarten teacher.  Didn't they understand that they were becoming a soldier?   I guess they thought it was summer camp.  

[Soldier4Christ]

Future Canadian???

What does your post have to do with Canada?  
"_______ is a peace-loving 25 year old who enlisted to pay off his undergraduate loans (45K!) and to get free grad school. He never believed he would be put in a situation like this."  

I am tired of people complaining that they didn't sign up with the army to go to war.  They only joined so they could become a pilot, a doctor, a kindergarten teacher.  Didn't they understand that they were becoming a soldier?   I guess they thought it was summer camp.  

It's called the something for nothing attitude. Government  is supposed to give these people everything without them doing anything to earn it.

They have forgotten that freedom isn't free.

Sign up to be a Soldier and you had better be prepared to be one!

Here we are...Vietnam all over again.

The only way Iraq is like Viet Nam is in the way these people are reacting to it and denigrating our Soldiers and Sailors.

[thommy]

Pastor Roger,

I agree entirely with your point that if one signs up to go to military school, or joins the armed forces, then one had better be prepared to fight.  There do seem to be some troubling cases in Iraq though, where soldiers are being forced, against their will to stay for much longer than their terms of service, which may be problematic in the future.

I must say that I disagree with your statement:

"The only way Iraq is like Viet Nam is in the way these people are reacting to it and denigrating our Soldiers and Sailors."

I will not tell you that the two conflicts are identical, but to make a statement such as yours, is to under-analyze the situation.  I beleive the two are similar for several reasons.

1. They are both wars fought with a conventional army against a guerilla style force.

2.  The defence department grossly misjudged the nature of the enemy in both cases.  I think that in both instances, the military elite felt that victory would be swift and easy, not realizing that the real fight would not be against uniformed or conventional forces, but in the streets.

3.  The incramental increase of force size.  I think you will find the number of u.s. servicemen and women in Iraq has and will grow, much as did throughout the 60's in Vietnam.

4.  The lack of a clear exit strategy.

As a result of these similarities, I think that the U.S. has a tough fight on its hands.  Other than the fact that no modern army has ever defeated a guerilla style opponent, I beleive that a weak conventional defence to the U.S. initial onslaught was part of the Iraqi plan all along.  If any guerilla leader can take one lesson from Vietnam, its if you drag out a fight long enough, Americans may lose their stomach for flag draped coffins.  I'm not saying that this is neccesarily the case here, but it is certainly worth some time and thought.

Finally, I do not beleive that speaking out against the war is denegrating the fine men and women of the armed forces.  I have the utmost in respect for anyone who dons their nations uniform.  To borrow a vietnam era slogan: agianst the war, not the soldiers.

thanks,
thom

[Soldier4Christ]

Pastor Roger,

I agree entirely with your point that if one signs up to go to military school, or joins the armed forces, then one had better be prepared to fight.  There do seem to be some troubling cases in Iraq though, where soldiers are being forced, against their will to stay for much longer than their terms of service, which may be problematic in the future.

This too is a part of their contract. Their service contract can be extended for a period without their agreement to it. They signed that dotted line. They should be aware of what they are signing before they sign it. As with any contract read before you sign.

I must say that I disagree with your statement:

"The only way Iraq is like Viet Nam is in the way these people are reacting to it and denigrating our Soldiers and Sailors."

I will not tell you that the two conflicts are identical, but to make a statement such as yours, is to under-analyze the situation.  I beleive the two are similar for several reasons.

1. They are both wars fought with a conventional army against a guerilla style force.

I will concede to the fact that they are both a guerilla style force that we are now fighting.

2.  The defence department grossly misjudged the nature of the enemy in both cases.  I think that in both instances, the military elite felt that victory would be swift and easy, not realizing that the real fight would not be against uniformed or conventional forces, but in the streets.

This is not true. Our troops were told from the start that this would be the case. Yes, we were hoping for swift and easy results but were well aware that it may not be so.

3.  The incramental increase of force size.  I think you will find the number of u.s. servicemen and women in Iraq has and will grow, much as did throughout the 60's in Vietnam.

This is no different than in any war that we have fought in. In WWI and WWII the number of U.S. Servicemen and Women were increased in numbers in the war as the need warranted.

4.  The lack of a clear exit strategy.

Again no different than any other war that we have fought in. Plans for an "exit strategy" can not be made in advance. There are to many variables to consider until that time comes and what is being planned certainly isn't being disseminated to the general public for obvious reasons to anyone that understands the elements of war.

As a result of these similarities, I think that the U.S. has a tough fight on its hands.  Other than the fact that no modern army has ever defeated a guerilla style opponent, I beleive that a weak conventional defence to the U.S. initial onslaught was part of the Iraqi plan all along.  If any guerilla leader can take one lesson from Vietnam, its if you drag out a fight long enough, Americans may lose their stomach for flag draped coffins.  I'm not saying that this is neccesarily the case here, but it is certainly worth some time and thought.

Finally, I do not beleive that speaking out against the war is denegrating the fine men and women of the armed forces.  I have the utmost in respect for anyone who dons their nations uniform.  To borrow a vietnam era slogan: agianst the war, not the soldiers.

thanks,
thom

"against the war, not the soldiers"  does in fact denigrate our troops. Our troops are a part of that war, that war is a part of them. You cannot separate the two. It is what they are doing. To tell them any different belittles them and what they are doing. It causes many problems just as it did during Viet Nam. Low troop moral, more of our troops being killed, support of the enemy giving the enemy more fuel and determination to keep fighting. This is what happened in Viet Nam and is again happening now.

People need to stop playing this game and let the troops do their job.