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nChrist
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« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2005, 02:42:45 PM »

Brothers and Sisters,

It appears that we have the makings of another pleasant and great discussion.

We really have a massive amount of material already on the forum that represents years of work by several of our users. I might add that the material is excellent, highly documented from the Holy Bible, and presents several points of view.

I would simply like to add 2 cents worth again for thought. Daniel's 70 weeks were determined on Israel, not THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. The first 69 weeks of Daniel's prophecy have been fulfilled, but the 70th week remains in the future. It is imperative to note that each day in Daniel's week represents 1 year. So, 1 week is 7 years. Let this be the first penny worth, I hope.

Christians who are saved in this age or dispensation of Grace have the Holy Spirit living in their hearts, and their heart is SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, setting aside that Christian as a possession of God forever. No power in Heaven or earth can break the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AND, that would include the Mark of the Beast. The devil certainly can't break the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, so Christians won't be here to worry about the Mark of the Beast. Christians will already be home in Heaven with JESUS. There will be hosts of new Christians that are saved during the Tribulation Period, and they will be damned forever if they yield to the Mark of the Beast. We must remember that the Age and dispensation of God's Grace is over with the beginning of the Tribulation Period. The Restrainer (Holy Spirit) will be removed, and new Christians during the Tribulation Period will prove their faith by having their heads chopped off. Those who profess Christ will be hunted to the ends of the earth, and their Salvation will depend on rejecting the Mark of the Beast. This is NOT a condition of Salvation for Christians who profess Christ in this current age. In fact, Christians in this current age have promises from God and the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT that CAN'T BE BROKEN. I hope this another penny worth.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 119:105  Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

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Reba
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« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2005, 02:52:03 PM »

Sheesh  I wonder how   WE all can have a different view and say, in one form or another,  this is the understanding i have because of prayer and listing to the Holy Spirit.

No place does Jesus speak of " the great tribulation" nor the whole of the Word say "the great tribulation" (I read KJV mostly) so maybe some other translation....

The whole of scripture All of God's Word and all of His words to us only use the phrase antichrist a total of 5 times. I do find it strange the man who penned Revelation does not use the word antichrist and yet he is also the man who penned the term in the 'little books' of John .... Do we have the right, justification, reason, knowledge, leading, understanding etc. etc., to make subtle changes to His Holy Word. Or, do we do this because of translation? If this is done under the guise of translation that would lead one to understand the KJV is lacking.?...

 Hello my friend!

 Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

 Reeba; Notice how John makes a distinction in this verse?
He tells us that there are many antichrists (children of satan-seeverse below) on earth "even now" then he says that antichrist shall come (future tense) Why do you think he made such a distinction.  Daniel states that he will sign a seven year peace deal with "many" and that he will claim to be God. The bible thumps it into our heads that satan is the father of lies, murder, perversion, sin etc. He is "the antichrist" by definition. I don't understand your confusion with this.

 Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Take care.

Bronzesnake

Yup  Bronzesnake you well posted my point, about "the great tribulation" Smiley as i said it ain't there...


Quote
Keep in mind that revelation tells us that satan will be hoofed out of the heavens and down here to earth in the end times.

Where is satan today?



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Reba
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« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2005, 03:12:19 PM »

Brothers and Sisters,

It appears that we have the makings of another pleasant and great discussion.

We really have a massive amount of material already on the forum that represents years of work by several of our users. I might add that the material is excellent, highly documented from the Holy Bible, and presents several points of view.

I would simply like to add 2 cents worth again for thought. Daniel's 70 weeks were determined on Israel, not THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. The first 69 weeks of Daniel's prophecy have been fulfilled, but the 70th week remains in the future. It is imperative to note that each day in Daniel's week represents 1 year. So, 1 week is 7 years. Let this be the first penny worth, I hope.

Christians who are saved in this age or dispensation of Grace have the Holy Spirit living in their hearts, and their heart is SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, setting aside that Christian as a possession of God forever. No power in Heaven or earth can break the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. AND, that would include the Mark of the Beast. The devil certainly can't break the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, so Christians won't be here to worry about the Mark of the Beast. Christians will already be home in Heaven with JESUS. There will be hosts of new Christians that are saved during the Tribulation Period, and they will be damned forever if they yield to the Mark of the Beast. We must remember that the Age and dispensation of God's Grace is over with the beginning of the Tribulation Period. The Restrainer (Holy Spirit) will be removed, and new Christians during the Tribulation Period will prove their faith by having their heads chopped off. Those who profess Christ will be hunted to the ends of the earth, and their Salvation will depend on rejecting the Mark of the Beast. This is NOT a condition of Salvation for Christians who profess Christ in this current age. In fact, Christians in this current age have promises from God and the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT that CAN'T BE BROKEN. I hope this another penny worth.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 119:105  Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.



Mr. Bepster my brother and friend... Smiley...

This piece from your statment abopve puzzles me... I read this to be salvation via the blood of man I could die a million times and my blood will not save me or anyone else...We are saved only by HIS sacrifice, HIS death, HIS blood, not our own.  
Quote


The Restrainer (Holy Spirit) will be removed, and new Christians during the Tribulation Period will prove their faith by having their heads chopped off. Those who profess Christ will be hunted to the ends of the earth, and their Salvation will depend on rejecting the Mark of the Beast.

2 Cor 6:2
2(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)
KJV

1 Thess 5:9

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
KJV


Heb 9:20

20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
KJV

Heb 9:26

26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
KJV


Heb 13:12

12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
KJV


1 Peter 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
KJV


Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
KJV


Eph 1:5-7

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
KJV
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asaph
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« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2005, 03:39:48 PM »

Hello Keith.

 I see what you are getting at. You are a mid-tribber.

 I really have grown tired of debateing this pre-mid-post tribulation rapture stuff. I have posted much on the biblical evidence which supports a pre-trib.

 However, It has been a long while since I debated this in any detail, so I am ready to do it again if you like.

 This is probably not an appropriate thread to have this discussion, so please present your mid trib rapture scriptures in the "Rapture" thread, and I will respond with pre-trib rapture verses.

 Good talking with you my friend.

Bronzesnake
Hey Brother,
Actually I am not mid trib but pre wrath. Mid tribbers will be able to set a date once the treaty is signed. We do not, nor can we know the day or the hour of Christ's return.  I was a pretribber for  many years but after reading "The Sign" I was challenged to reevaluate the scriptures concerning the end times. I only ask the questions above because they cut to the heart of the pre trib theory. I do not know that I am up to a long term debate because most of the time they are fruitless and end in strife. But if you are seriously wanting to be a Berean here is a website you can go to that will explain the pre wrath position.
http://www.revelationcommentary.org/
I am one that attends a church that is of the pre trib theory. I do not divide over this issue. I wish I could say that about some pretribbers. A kneejerk reaction is what I get most of the time without a demonstration of scriptural backing.
I will think about starting a debate on another thread.
Thanks,
Keith
« Last Edit: January 22, 2005, 03:41:22 PM by asaph » Logged

Bronzesnake
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« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2005, 05:23:28 PM »

Hello Keith.

 I see what you are getting at. You are a mid-tribber.

 I really have grown tired of debateing this pre-mid-post tribulation rapture stuff. I have posted much on the biblical evidence which supports a pre-trib.

 However, It has been a long while since I debated this in any detail, so I am ready to do it again if you like.

 This is probably not an appropriate thread to have this discussion, so please present your mid trib rapture scriptures in the "Rapture" thread, and I will respond with pre-trib rapture verses.

 Good talking with you my friend.

Bronzesnake
Hey Brother,
Actually I am not mid trib but pre wrath. Mid tribbers will be able to set a date once the treaty is signed. We do not, nor can we know the day or the hour of Christ's return.  I was a pretribber for  many years but after reading "The Sign" I was challenged to reevaluate the scriptures concerning the end times. I only ask the questions above because they cut to the heart of the pre trib theory. I do not know that I am up to a long term debate because most of the time they are fruitless and end in strife. But if you are seriously wanting to be a Berean here is a website you can go to that will explain the pre wrath position.
http://www.revelationcommentary.org/
I am one that attends a church that is of the pre trib theory. I do not divide over this issue. I wish I could say that about some pretribbers. A kneejerk reaction is what I get most of the time without a demonstration of scriptural backing.
I will think about starting a debate on another thread.
Thanks,
Keith


 Hello Keith.

 Hey, that's ok my friend, I am well educated in the pre-wrath and all the others. I agree with you - most of these debates go nowhere and can end up ugly. It's not a "Heaven or Hell" issue, so I'll see you at the Pre-Trib Rapture, and you'll owe me a piece of angel cake. Wink

Bronzesnake
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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2005, 05:25:45 PM »

Reba quote...

 
Quote
Yup  Bronzesnake you well posted my point, about "the great tribulation"  as i said it ain't there...

You're just splitting hairs you naughty girl!  Cheesy
 
Quote
Where is satan today?

 Where does the bible say he is today Reba?

 Later my sister.

Bronzesnake
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Jemidon2004
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« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2005, 05:33:46 PM »

LoL...spitting hairs never gets us anywhere. Hey that rhymed...i'm proud of myself...lol...talk at you guys later. God Bless

Joshua
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"Man is never sufficiently touched and affected by the awareness of his lowly state until he has compared himself with God's majesty" - John Calvin
Reba
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« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2005, 06:13:17 PM »

Reba quote...

 
Quote
Yup  Bronzesnake you well posted my point, about "the great tribulation"  as i said it ain't there...

You're just splitting hairs you naughty girl!  Cheesy
 
Quote
Where is satan today?



 Where does the bible say he is today Reba?

 Later my sister.

Bronzesnake

  No fair i asked first Tongue  

More like jot and tittle then spliting hairs.   Grin
« Last Edit: January 22, 2005, 06:15:37 PM by Reba » Logged
nChrist
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« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2005, 06:43:35 PM »

Sister Reba,

I agree with you completely about Salvation, and I give thanks for the Gospel of the Grace of God. This age will come to an end, and what I wrote about the Mark of the Beast is heavily documented in the Holy Bible. This is the main reason why I believe in a pre-Tribulation RAPTURE of the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. I know that Almighty God can't and won't break any of HIS Promises to THE BODY OF CHRIST or to Israel.

Think about this and see what you think. I'm absolutely positive that the devil can't break the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. That is the main premise of my thoughts on this issue, a Promise from Almighty God.

Now, we come to an absolute fact about Daniel's 70th week of prophecy. Those who take the Mark of the Beast will be damned forever and belong to the devil. It will make no difference at all about what they profess to believe. This is straight out of the Holy Bible. This does not contradict the previous paragraph because the age and dispensation of Grace is over. This is not some wild thoughts of an ultra-dispensationalist or whatever some of these folks are called. The Apostle Paul specifically calls this age the dispensation of Grace. This paragraph is obviously not compatible with the previous paragraph for a big reason:  This age or dispensation of Grace will end. If it didn't end, one would have a huge contradiction in the Holy Bible, and that's not possible.

Sister, you and I will be spending eternity together with JESUS. That is God's Promise to us, and I believe it 100%. You and I are already SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, and we won't be here to worry about the Mark of the Beast. Satan is NOT unleashed completely during our present time, but he will be at God's appointed time. How will the devil be completely unleashed and allowed to rule and reign over the earth from Jerusalem? The answer involves many other answers. The GREAT RESTRAINER (HOLY SPIRIT) will be removed. Since the Holy Spirit lives in each heart of THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST, THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST must be also removed. In fact, the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST will be RAPTURED, caught up to meet the LORD in the air. This is also a Promise of Almighty God that I believe in 100%.

Sister, our differences of opinion on this issue means nothing to me. I know beyond any doubt that you are in CHRIST. You were very wise to question what I said. The answer involves the end of this age and our eternity together with JESUS. You and I both know that the hope within us, JESUS, is absolute reality. If we die today - "Absent from the body, present with the LORD." "If Jesus comes for us" is not a question because we both know beyond any doubt that we will spend eternity with HIM. The question involves the timing of Bible prophecy and how it will most certainly be fulfilled. If we are still physically alive at HIS appointed time to come for us, we will be caught up to spend eternity with HIM. If we physically die before the RAPTURE, our Spirit will already be with JESUS, but our bodies will be caught up. We will also be given a glorified body at HIS appointed time. Regardless, our eternal reality is already SEALED in JESUS. Any differences we may have now we be left behind and forgotten forever. We will be far too busy with joy, praise, and worship of JESUS to remember any of the trials and conflicts of this short life on earth. The tears, sorrow, and trials will be over forever.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Titus 2:13  Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
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« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2005, 06:47:24 PM »

Hello Keith.

 I see what you are getting at. You are a mid-tribber.

 I really have grown tired of debateing this pre-mid-post tribulation rapture stuff. I have posted much on the biblical evidence which supports a pre-trib.

 However, It has been a long while since I debated this in any detail, so I am ready to do it again if you like.

 This is probably not an appropriate thread to have this discussion, so please present your mid trib rapture scriptures in the "Rapture" thread, and I will respond with pre-trib rapture verses.

 Good talking with you my friend.

Bronzesnake
Hey Brother,
Actually I am not mid trib but pre wrath. Mid tribbers will be able to set a date once the treaty is signed. We do not, nor can we know the day or the hour of Christ's return.  I was a pretribber for  many years but after reading "The Sign" I was challenged to reevaluate the scriptures concerning the end times. I only ask the questions above because they cut to the heart of the pre trib theory. I do not know that I am up to a long term debate because most of the time they are fruitless and end in strife. But if you are seriously wanting to be a Berean here is a website you can go to that will explain the pre wrath position.
http://www.revelationcommentary.org/
I am one that attends a church that is of the pre trib theory. I do not divide over this issue. I wish I could say that about some pretribbers. A kneejerk reaction is what I get most of the time without a demonstration of scriptural backing.
I will think about starting a debate on another thread.
Thanks,
Keith


 Hello Keith.

 Hey, that's ok my friend, I am well educated in the pre-wrath and all the others. I agree with you - most of these debates go nowhere and can end up ugly. It's not a "Heaven or Hell" issue, so I'll see you at the Pre-Trib Rapture, and you'll owe me a piece of angel cake. Wink

Bronzesnake

LOL Cheesy
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« Reply #40 on: January 25, 2005, 12:16:09 PM »

I like how you snuck that in there Smiley very tactful. I'll see you guys at the Pre-Trib Rapture as well...BEFORE THE TRIBULATION PERIOD...tee hee..that aught to get BigD's eyes alert...or at least shaking his head! Cheesy

Joshua
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« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2005, 12:43:30 PM »

I like how you snuck that in there Smiley very tactful. I'll see you guys at the Pre-Trib Rapture as well...BEFORE THE TRIBULATION PERIOD...tee hee..that aught to get BigD's eyes alert...or at least shaking his head! Cheesy

Joshua
I think BigD would love to debate this, as well. Anyone who says, mid-trib, the first round of manna, is on you. Said to me by BRNZ
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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #42 on: January 25, 2005, 01:49:01 PM »

I like how you snuck that in there Smiley very tactful. I'll see you guys at the Pre-Trib Rapture as well...BEFORE THE TRIBULATION PERIOD...tee hee..that aught to get BigD's eyes alert...or at least shaking his head! Cheesy

Joshua
I think BigD would love to debate this, as well. Anyone who says, mid-trib, the first round of manna, is on you. Said to me by BRNZ

 I wasn't going to say anything my friend!!  Cheesy Grin

Bronzesnake
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« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2005, 01:56:53 PM »

I like how you snuck that in there Smiley very tactful. I'll see you guys at the Pre-Trib Rapture as well...BEFORE THE TRIBULATION PERIOD...tee hee..that aught to get BigD's eyes alert...or at least shaking his head! Cheesy

Joshua
I think BigD would love to debate this, as well. Anyone who says, mid-trib, the first round of manna, is on you. Said to me by BRNZ

 I wasn't going to say anything my friend!!  Cheesy Grin

Bronzesnake
I know, thats why I said it. I was waiting for you to say it...... Grin

Bob
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« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2005, 09:12:00 PM »

*Plays the Jeopardy theme Song*

Joshua
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"Man is never sufficiently touched and affected by the awareness of his lowly state until he has compared himself with God's majesty" - John Calvin
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