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Author Topic: 70 WEEKS PROPHECY...  (Read 12806 times)
Reba
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« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2005, 02:11:06 PM »

Didn't it take 7 years to rebuild?
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« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2005, 02:25:36 PM »

Sister Reba,

I love you and your posts, so please keep posting. You are my sister in Christ, and our disagreement on this issue doesn't make me love you any less. This is a pleasant discussion, and I will be studying your posts just as much as any other post. So, post away and know that your points are worthy of study.

My main point is that I love you in Christ, and I love to read and study all of your posts.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 105:3  Glory ye in his holy name: let the heart of them rejoice that seek the LORD.
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Reba
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« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2005, 02:38:39 PM »

Mr. Bepster,

 Smiley
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Jemidon2004
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« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2005, 03:35:17 PM »

Reba,

Yes, the land is a key factor in Israel's anointment of the King. They did not anoint Jesus Christ the King of Israel. Hey simply said "Blessed is the Son of David which comes in the Name of the Lord" They didn't anoint Him king, because if they had, they would have recognized Him as the Messiah and the Holy One spoken of in the OT. They simply thought of Him as a prophet from God, not the King of Israel. If they had, they wouldn't have condemned Him to be crucified. Also, remember at that time, there was no kingdom known as Israel. It was known as Palestine, and it was a roman province. It's clear through Scripture that it's the NATION OF ISRAEL that will Anoint Jesus King. They can't do this if they are not the physical or spiritual nation that God has called them to be. And at that time, the Glory of God had already left the Temple, and left Jerusalem. About the Church and Israel being one in the same. We (Gentiles) are now adopted sons as Scripture points out. However, the Church is seperate from Israel, they are not one in the same, because when the church is raptured out, according to that, so will Israel. Thus that makes no sense to me. Also if you re-read your quotation of 1 peter, you'll see that the context is that of the BELIEVER, not Israel. How can Israel be a holy nation at the time of Peter's writing. Even Peter saw how unholy Israel was. He was addressing the Christians. He even states "In past time, ye were not a people, but now are" How is it that when this was written, Peter is saying that Israel wasn't a people, but now they are. That's a contradiction of thought. I gotta run to pick up my dad, but i'll be back on to finish this up... To Be continued.

Joshua
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Reba
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« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2005, 04:05:34 PM »

Quote
How can Israel be a holy nation at the time of Peter's writing.

 Gods word says so thats how...

1 Peter 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

1 Peter 2:10

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
KJV

KJV



Who was King Herod?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2005, 04:19:36 PM by Reba » Logged
Jemidon2004
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« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2005, 09:19:26 PM »

No God's Word says so on the surface, but remember who Peter was talking to. He was talking to the Jewish Christians, not the Nation of Israel. He was also talking about those Gentile Christians and what the Believer is to God. That's clear in the use of the word "Peculiar" The Greek word used is Peripoiesis which means "Purchased" Peter was addressing his letter to the BELIEVER, not the nation of Israel. You are right, Christ is the High Priest, but in the priesthood of Believers. The Nation of Israel has yet to recognize HIm or anoint Him as a High Priest, or King of Israel. Herod wasn't really a king...if you remember, the Romans had absolute power in that region. They gave out governorships and allowed the title to be bestowed upon people of THEIR choosing. So Herod, wasn't an absolute monarch over anything. Much less the Nation of Israel...Herod was contained to Judea, not Perea which is also part of Palestine at that time. So "King" Herod was simply given that title to raise his own ego. When Christ is anointed King, He will have TOTAL power over the nation of Israel both physically and spiritually. Yet, they still can't anoint Him King, because He's not come back yet, Israel has yet to become the spiritual nation that it once was, and Israel is still set aside as a nation. I covered the reasons Israel was set aside in another Study that i composed a few weeks ago...if you would like to check that one out as well...i can give you the link or post it here...whatever you wish...however, you can't just take 1 Peter 2:9 and say that it's talking about the nation of Israel...because when Peter wrote this, Israel WAS NOT a nation. It was known as Palestine, not Israel. It was as well a province of Rome, not a Kingdom. The Kingdom known as Israel was split into two, then destroyed and ceased to be a nation with it's last king, Zedekiah, who reigned around the time of Ezekiel's writing.  So you can't look at things on the surface reba, you need to take them into context...just a few thoughts. God Bless

Joshua
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Reba
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« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2005, 02:46:07 AM »

Josh I do look beyond the surface i have been where you are.  Smiley

I am going to ask  you a question and i have thought about how to word it for a couple of hours. Most anyone who ever reads my posts knows a rude sounding question is now going to be asked. Please again i do not mean to be rude but i will ask. How much of what you post is God's Word and how much is what you believe God is saying. I ask understanding we all read the scriptures a bit differently.Like where do the scriptures say the "nation of Israel" will annoint Him king. I say the high priest does the annointing He is Thee High Priest.



Heb 1:8-9

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
KJV
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« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2005, 11:41:18 AM »

Reba,

I saw your question and I don't think that it is rude at all. It's a simple question. When it comes to matters of theology, I try to only comment or have an opinion on things that I have seen or studied in the Scriptures. When I said look beyond the surface, I meant just that. And I hope you do. What I post in my posts, I try to make statements that will be backed up with God's Word. If i can't back it up with God's Word, I try not to state it sometimes. Sometimes I may get carried away and not clarify myself, but as you will see i make allusions and references and examples pertaining to those thta are in Scripture. Occasionally, i'll go to an outside source for historical background and cultural back ground. When I post, I try to study the material first before I post something. Such as the 70th week of Daniel...I've spent the past year and a half studying God's Word as to how this fits in History. See Prophecy that has passed and History go hand in hand. However, it can become confusing. But that's another post. Yes, We all do read Scriptures a bit differently, however, there are some Truths in Scripture that can only be interpreted one way which is the correct way. As I've said before, there are different interpretations to the Word of God, however, I leave it up to the Spirit for discernment. I know i'm not the best Bible Scholar that's ever lived, and I don't claim to know the answers...however, I have studied this subject quite extensively and i continually pray for God's guidance, but as of right now in my study of His Word, what i have posted earlier is what the Spirit has given to me to see. I don't know what else is out there, but when the time comes, it'll be the Holy Spirit which will give me confirmation that what I thought was wrong, and that what I may find out is right. However, in this case, that hasn't been the case. I still feel within my spirit, that what I posted is Truth according to God's Word. That's the best I know how to answer your question. Don't worry about sounding rude or anything, because i cannot tell how you sound vocally, so what right do i have to get offended at something you say Smiley Though some do get offended sometimes, i just remind them, we can't hear another person's voice, so sometimes we just gotta listen, digest, and respond and that's what i've done here. If you  would like to go over my posts that I've posted in this forum and see that what I posts is God's Word, you have my permission to do so. I got dinner in the oven so i'm going to post this and finish eating. God Bless, and I hope I answered your question to your satisfaction.

Joshua
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« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2005, 03:08:45 PM »

Hi Bronze,
I have some questions about things in this paragraph.
490 years after the birth of Abraham the Passover occurred -  490 years after Passover, Solomon's temple was built - 490 years later, the rebuilding of Jerusalem took place - exactly 483 after that, Jesus died on the cross... Where's the missing seven years? the final "week" from Daniel's prophecy is the tribulation period. The prophetic clock stopped when Jesus died on the cross. The clock will not start the final seven year countdown to His second coming until after the rapture takes place.

I agree with most of what is said but how is the tribulation period 7 years. Would'nt it be more accurate to define it as Daniels 70th week rather than the "Tribulation?".

The reason I ask is because Jesus says that the tribulation begins in the middle of the 70th week and is cut short. Let me simply quote Him:

Matthew 24

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)...
21... then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


Does not this define the bounderies of the great tribulation?

Thanks,
Keith
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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2005, 11:28:29 PM »

Hi Bronze,
I have some questions about things in this paragraph.
490 years after the birth of Abraham the Passover occurred -  490 years after Passover, Solomon's temple was built - 490 years later, the rebuilding of Jerusalem took place - exactly 483 after that, Jesus died on the cross... Where's the missing seven years? the final "week" from Daniel's prophecy is the tribulation period. The prophetic clock stopped when Jesus died on the cross. The clock will not start the final seven year countdown to His second coming until after the rapture takes place.

I agree with most of what is said but how is the tribulation period 7 years. Would'nt it be more accurate to define it as Daniels 70th week rather than the "Tribulation?".

The reason I ask is because Jesus says that the tribulation begins in the middle of the 70th week and is cut short. Let me simply quote Him:

Matthew 24

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)...
21... then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


Does not this define the bounderies of the great tribulation?

Thanks,
Keith

 Wouldn't you call a time in our history when satan is directly in charge tribulation? in fact, wouldn't you think a time such as this would be the worst time of tribulation the world has ever experienced up to that point? Think about it...satan actually in charge...Christians have gone away...no more restrainer.

 The first half of the seven years is referred to as a time of "Tribulation" - the second half, as you correctly pointed out is referred to as "Great Tribulation" because this is when God really lets His vengeance loose. The fact that Jesus describes the second half as a time of "great tribulation" infers that the first half of Daniel's 70th week is a time of tribulation, albeit not "great tribulation"

 The final seven years are seven years of tribulation my friend.

Bronzesnake
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« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2005, 03:38:20 AM »

Bronzesnake,
I did a search on the word "tribulation" and I can't find any reference to it refering to the first half of Daniels 70th week.
 Here are the verses I found:
# Matthew 13:21
yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while. For when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the Word, by and by he loses faith.

# Matthew 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

# Matthew 24:29
"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken,

# Mark 13:24
"But in those days, after that tribulation, `the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

# John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in Me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer: I have overcome the world."

# Acts 14:22
confirming the souls of the disciples and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the Kingdom of God.

# Romans 2:9
tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man who doeth evil, upon the Jew first and also upon the Gentile;

# Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also, knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

# Romans 8:35
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

# Romans 12:12
rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing instant in prayer;

# 2 Corinthians 1:4
who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted by God.

# 2 Corinthians 7:4
Great is my boldness of speech toward you; great is my glorying of you. I am filled with comfort; I am exceedingly joyful in all our tribulation.

# 1 Thessalonians 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you beforehand that we should suffer tribulation, even as it came to pass, as ye know.

# 2 Thessalonians 1:6
For it is a righteous thing with God to recompense with tribulation those who trouble you;

# Revelation 1:9
I, John, who also am your brother and companion in tribulation and in the Kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the isle that is called Patmos, for the Word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

# Revelation 2:9
I know thy works and tribulation and poverty (but thou art rich), and I know the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

# Revelation 2:10
Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer. Behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried, and ye shall have tribulation ten days. Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of Life.

# Revelation 2:22
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds.

# Revelation 7:14
And I said unto him, "Sir, thou knowest." And he said to me, "These are they that came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

We must distinguish between great tribulation which is the persecution by Anti-Christ and all other tribulation in order to have a proper understanding of scripture. The tribulation by Anti-Christ should not be confused with God's wrath. God's wrath does not begin until the overcomiers are removed (raptured).

By the way, as an aside, what is actually shortened? Is it the 70th week or something else?
Matthew 24

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

What is shortened? And by what means does God shorten it?

Is the 70th week shortened or is the tribulation by Anti-Christ shortened? Please explain.

Your Brother in Christ,

Keith

 




« Last Edit: January 22, 2005, 03:46:07 AM by asaph » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2005, 04:32:42 AM »

Wouldn't you call a time in our history when satan is directly in charge tribulation?
I certainly would. Jesus calls it great tribulation. Satan in Anti-Christ will be restrained until the middle of Daniels 70th week. Then when the restainer is taken out of the way that wicked one will be revealed. This is in the middle, not the beginning of the 70th week.

Daniel 12
1And at that time shall Michael stand up [Hebrew: amad, which can mean to stand still], the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:

Matthew 24
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
21... then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

2 Thessalonians 2
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

He will be revealed when he sits in the temple, "shewing himself that he is God."

And, according to Daniel 12:1 Michael is the one restraining him till the middle of the week.

Daniel  9 : 27

27 And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week; and in the middle of the week he will cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease and will replace the sacrifice and the oblation with abominations of the desolator, even until the complete destruction that has been determined is poured out upon the desolator.

Daniel  12 : 11

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice is removed and the abomination that desolates is set up, there will be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Daniel 12
1And at that time shall Michael stand up [Hebrew: amad, which can mean to stand still], the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:

Michael fights for Israel but in the middle of the week he will amad (Hebrew: stand still). Then all Hell breaks loose and Anti- Christ wages war on Jews and Christians alike. Kind of like Hitler did only much worse. But Jesus will shorten those days by His glorious coming. Then God's wrath will be poured out till the end.

Note: "amad" means stand still or stand up. It is used both ways in the Old Testament.

 05975   //  dme  //  `amad   //  aw-mad'  //

a primitive root; TWOT - 1637; v

AV - stood 171, stand 137, (raise, stand...) up 42, set 32, stay 17,
still 15, appointed 10, standing 10, endure 8, remain 8, present 7,
continue 6, withstand 6, waited 5, establish 5, misc 42; 521

1) to stand, remain, endure, take one's stand
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to stand, take one's stand, be in a standing attitude,
stand forth, take a stand, present oneself, attend upon,
be or become servant of
1a2) to stand still, stop (moving or doing), cease
1a3) to tarry, delay, remain, continue, abide, endure, persist,
be steadfast
1a4) to make a stand, hold one's ground
1a5) to stand upright, remain standing, stand up, rise, be
erect, be upright
1a6) to arise, appear, come on the scene, stand forth, appear,
rise up or against
1a7) to stand with, take one's stand, be appointed, grow flat,
grow insipid
1b) (Hiphil)
1b1) to station, set
1b2) to cause to stand firm, maintain
1b3) to cause to stand up, cause to set up, erect
1b4) to present (one) before (king)
1b5) to appoint, ordain, establish
1c) (Hophal) to be presented, be caused to stand, be stood before

Notice fourth reference above-
1a2) to stand still, stop (moving or doing), cease

Michael stands still at the proper time then that wicked one is revealed.

Your Brother,

Keith
« Last Edit: January 22, 2005, 04:36:44 AM by asaph » Logged

Bronzesnake
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« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2005, 10:54:05 AM »

Hello Keith.

 I see what you are getting at. You are a mid-tribber.

 I really have grown tired of debateing this pre-mid-post tribulation rapture stuff. I have posted much on the biblical evidence which supports a pre-trib.

 However, It has been a long while since I debated this in any detail, so I am ready to do it again if you like.

 This is probably not an appropriate thread to have this discussion, so please present your mid trib rapture scriptures in the "Rapture" thread, and I will respond with pre-trib rapture verses.

 Good talking with you my friend.

Bronzesnake
« Last Edit: January 22, 2005, 10:56:07 AM by Bronzesnake » Logged
Reba
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« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2005, 11:08:06 AM »

Sheesh  I wonder how   WE all can have a different view and say, in one form or another,  this is the understanding i have because of prayer and listing to the Holy Spirit.


No place does Jesus speak of " the great tribulation" nor the whole of the Word say "the great tribulation" (I read KJV mostly) so maybe some other translation....

The whole of scripture All of God's Word and all of His words to us only use the phrase antichrist a total of 5 times. I do find it strange the man who penned Revelation does not use the word antichrist and yet he is also the man who penned the term in the 'little books' of John .... Do we have the right, justification, reason, knowledge, leading, understanding etc. etc., to make subtle changes to His Holy Word. Or, do we do this because of translation? If this is done under the guise of translation that would lead one to understand the KJV is lacking.?...
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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2005, 12:02:08 PM »

Sheesh  I wonder how   WE all can have a different view and say, in one form or another,  this is the understanding i have because of prayer and listing to the Holy Spirit.

No place does Jesus speak of " the great tribulation" nor the whole of the Word say "the great tribulation" (I read KJV mostly) so maybe some other translation....

The whole of scripture All of God's Word and all of His words to us only use the phrase antichrist a total of 5 times. I do find it strange the man who penned Revelation does not use the word antichrist and yet he is also the man who penned the term in the 'little books' of John .... Do we have the right, justification, reason, knowledge, leading, understanding etc. etc., to make subtle changes to His Holy Word. Or, do we do this because of translation? If this is done under the guise of translation that would lead one to understand the KJV is lacking.?...

 Hello my friend!

 Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Rev 2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

 1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

 Reeba; Notice how John makes a distinction in this verse?
He tells us that there are many antichrists (children of satan-seeverse below) on earth "even now" then he says that antichrist shall come (future tense) Why do you think he made such a distinction. Keep in mind that revelation tells us that satan will be hoofed out of the heavens and down here to earth in the end times. Daniel states that he will sign a seven year peace deal with "many" and that he will claim to be God. The bible thumps it into our heads that satan is the father of lies, murder, perversion, sin etc. He is "the antichrist" by definition. I don't understand your confusion with this.

 Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Take care.

Bronzesnake
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