After the "Mark of the Beast, Christ comes...

[DareDevil]

 After the testing process, (Mark of the Beast) whereby every person on earth will make their choice for, or against Jesus Christ...THEN Jesus will come again, to gather his people to take them back to heaven.
  The Great Tribulation will be ...the 'Day of Judgment', for those living just before Christ returns.

[Don]

Well .. maybe you meant to make that a little clearer. During the Great Tribulation 144,000 Jewish Believers will minister to those that are still here, following the rapture of the church. At the end of the Great Tribulation the Second Coming occurs, Jesus coming with the church. Perhaps I didn't see another comment that you were responding to.  

[John the Baptist]

After the testing process, (Mark of the Beast) whereby every person on earth will make their choice for, or against Jesus Christ...THEN Jesus will come again, to gather his people to take them back to heaven.
  The Great Tribulation will be ...the 'Day of Judgment', for those living just before Christ returns.

******
John here:
I see some judged before this time? The 1 Peter 4:17 ones are  judged FIRST. These faithful ones of Rev. 3:10 are promised.. "I will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon [all the world, to try them]."  

The Mark of the beast is the test, agreed?? So the ones that are giving the warning from Rev. 14:6-10 surely must know what warning Christ has them giving, right???  

So, as Israel of old were JUDGED FIRST, (Midnight Cry of Matt. 25) it seems that this last denomination with this message of warning also must also have their cleansing & falling away before the worlds final 666 testing? 70AD's Loud cry likeness? (testing of professed Christians)

Notice that Matt. 10 is for Israel of old? (verse 5-6) Christ said in verse 7, "And as ye go, PREACH, SAYING THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND."  Was it??? Christ was right there Himself! It was judgement time for VIRGIN ISRAEL. (His own) They had their judgement FIRST. Check John 9:39-41 & See Matt. 23:38? "Behold, your house (denomination) is left unto you DESOLUTE." (of Christ)

---John

[DareDevil]

Well .. maybe you meant to make that a little clearer. During the Great Tribulation 144,000 Jewish Believers will minister to those that are still here, following the rapture of the church. At the end of the Great Tribulation the Second Coming occurs, Jesus coming with the church. Perhaps I didn't see another comment that you were responding to.  

No, the Bible says that the Anti-christ must be revealed before the gathering of the church, ( 2 Thessaloians 2:1-3).
    Revelation 20: 4,5 shows that the first resurrection comes at the end of the Beast reign.

[John the Baptist]

Well .. maybe you meant to make that a little clearer. During the Great Tribulation 144,000 Jewish Believers will minister to those that are still here, following the rapture of the church. At the end of the Great Tribulation the Second Coming occurs, Jesus coming with the church. Perhaps I didn't see another comment that you were responding to.  

******
The Mark of the Beast [is] the Great Tribulation. Christ's Second Coming follows very soon after that! There is [no one] that is alive on earth then, other than satan & his evil angels. It is the 'Blessed and Holy that hath part in the FIRST resurection' & 'the rest of the dead lived not until the 1000 years were FINISHED'.

The wicked who had died do not come up from the grave in the first resurection. They stay put until the 1000 years are ended. See 1 Thess. 4:15-16 (notice the last 6 Words)

And the wicked living when Christ comes? They will be slain by His Brilliance & Glory! (ALL WICKED ARE THEN DEAD) See 2 Thess. 2:8 & Rev. 6:14-17.

Do you remember what happened at Christ's tomb when just two angels appeared? The guards fell like dead men!  Just try to imagine what will happen when Christ comes in ALL OF HIS GLORY with ALL OF THE HEAVENLY ANGELS!??
---John

[Petro]

So it sounds as though, after Rev 20:4-5, IF all the Christian church is removed from off the earth, there shouldn't be anyone that is a Christian on the earth.

This passage does not give the impression there is a rapture at this point, at verse 11, there is the great white throne judgement. It sounds like the end of the age.


It is clear from Mat 24:29-30, Jesus returns "imediately after the tribulation of those days,

And verse 31, says;  "his angels will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Question.............. if this is after the end of the Tribulation of these days, and this is the Rapure, which according to vs 31, includes every last Christian from one end of heaven to the other;

How is it there is a camp of the saints, here on the earth??,  surrounded by the armies of the nations of the world which Satan (at verse 9 of Rev 20), brings around the beloved city, Jerusalem, and this can not be the heavenly Jerusalem, since it has not come down from heaven, yet..

The heavenly Jerusalem comes down after God creates a new heaven and a new earth.

Something doesn't sound right, here??




Petro

[John the Baptist]

So it sounds as though, after Rev 20:4-5, IF all the Christian church is removed from off the earth, there shouldn't be anyone that is a Christian on the earth.

This passage does not give the impression there is a rapture at this point, at verse 11, there is the great white throne judgement. It sounds like the end of the age.


It is clear from Mat 24:29-30, Jesus returns "imediately after the tribulation of those days,

And verse 31, says;  "his angels will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Question.............. if this is after the end of the Tribulation of these days, and this is the Rapure, which according to vs 31, includes every last Christian from one end of heaven to the other;

How is it there is a camp of the saints, here on the earth??,  surrounded by the armies of the nations of the world which Satan (at verse 9 of Rev 20), brings around the beloved city, Jerusalem, and this can not be the heavenly Jerusalem, since it has not come down from heaven, yet..

*****
John here:
New Jerusalem comes down to earth, the rest of the dead have their promised resurection to die the second death. The wicked were judged lost using the standard of James 2:8-12 & Eccl. 12:13-14. This is the only question asked when Christ comes after the 666 testing. The testing will be the same as Ex. 16's testing before they were to (we) enter their (OUR) NEW JERUSALEM.

All of the world & the professed Chtristian world are judged saved or lost at this 666 testing! Now, ALL DEAD ARE LOST. The saints are told that they will have a part in the judgement phase. (1 Cor. 6:2-3) But judge what? The dead are already judged lost when Christ comes the second time! OK: That is a good question:

You asked about the [wicked] 'camping' around the decending New Jerusalem. Inside the City are Christ & His saints +! [Outside] the 'CAMP' are ALL OF HISTORY'S LOST, BUT, THEY HAVE JUST BEEN RESURRECTED FROM THE DEAD. They went into their graves lost, and come up out of their graves the same way. This time they will listen to their leader that knows that his time has come. He will, with ALL OF HIS [DESIRED] followers, (Gen. 4:7) make their [LAST STAND AGAINST CHRIST] (Obad. 16)

It is at this time that each individual will die by the fire that God sends down from heaven. (it ALSO cleanses the whole earth of sins destruction) It is a HOT HELL. Yet each lost one will have had a heavenly just RECORD BOOK JUDGEMENT. (try Luke 12:47-48 for the worse offenders! & also try Matt. 10:14-15. Wow! huh?)

This judgement is the penalty stage of (or) execution. Each resurected sinner will be 'beaten with stripes' Surely David was told that we will see this destruction of the wicked. And satan will suffer the most. (interesting Eze. 28 verses?) His angels next? And then so on.

Some most likely will not even be resurrected to die the second death perhaps??? And Christ told of a special resurection of those who killed him, these will require a third death!

But, regardless the worst will suffer the worse according to Christs REQUIRED statement in Luke 12:47. And the worse are the 'knowledgeable' lost ones. Heb. 6:6 Peter's comment about some returning to their own 'vomit'. And surely the Rev. 3:16-17 ones that Christ takes NO ISSUE with in their knowledge of Truth, yet, He IS MADE SICK BY THEIR [ACTIVE] LUKWARM LOVE! And these ones are the MOST ACCOUNTABLE. CHRIST STATES THAT THEY ARE SPEWED OUT. (Judged worse than that of the vile sinners! Hell will last longer for these ones.)

---John
******
The heavenly Jerusalem comes down after God creates a new heaven and a new earth.

Something doesn't sound right, here??




Petro

[AngelicMan]

From Swedenborg's writings:

Rev.13:11.
And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, signifies the clergy in the churches of the Reformed who are in the doctrine and faith of the dragon concerning God and salvation.

What the faith of the dragon is and its quality, may be seen above.

That it is the laity that are meant by "the beast which came up out of the sea," and the clergy by "the beast which came up out of the earth," because by "the sea" is signified the external of the church, and by "the earth" its internal.

The laity are in the externals of the doctrine of the church, and the clergy are in its internals.

That the clergy are now described, appears from all the particulars which follow, when understood in the spiritual sense; and manifestly from this, that this beast is also called "the false prophet" (Rev. 16:13; 19:20; 20:10).

Especially from the following passage:
 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that did signs before him, by which he seduced them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that adored his image (Rev. 19:20).

That this beast did signs before the other, by which he seduced them, is said in this chapter in these words:
    And he doeth great signs, and he seduceth them that dwell on the earth, on account of the signs which it was given him to do before the beast, saying to them to make an image to the beast, and adore it (Rev. 13:13-15).

Harry
 

[AngelicMan]

Rev.16
 Verse 1. "And I heard a great voice out of the temple, saying to the seven angels, Go, and pour out the vials of the anger of God into the earth," signifies influx from the Lord from the inmost of heaven into the church of the Reformed, where they are who are in faith separated from charity as to doctrine and as to life.

Verse 2. "And the first went forth, and poured out his vial on the earth," signifies into those who are in the interiors of the church of the Reformed, and study the doctrine of justification by faith alone, and are called the clergy. "And there came an evil and noxious sore," signifies interior evils and falsities destructive of all good and truth in the church. "Upon the men that had the mark of the beast, and that adore his image," signifies in those who live faith alone and receive the doctrine of it.

Verse 3. "And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea" signifies influx among those there who are in its externals, and in that faith, and are called the laity. "And it became blood as of one dead, and every living soul died in the sea," signifies infernal falsity with them, by which every truth of the Word and thence of the church and of faith was extinguished.

Verse 4. "And the third angel poured out his vial into the rivers and the fountains of waters," signifies influx into the understanding of the Word with them. "And they became blood," signifies the truths of the Word falsified.

Verse 5. "And I heard the angel of the waters saying," signifies the Divine truth of the Word. "Thou art just, O Lord, who art, and who wast, and art holy, because Thou hast judged these things," signifies that this is from the Divine Providence of the Lord, who is and who was the Word, which otherwise would be profaned.

 Verse 6. "Because they have poured out the blood of saints and prophets," signifies that this is for the reason, that this alone, that faith alone without the works of the law saves, being received, perverts all doctrinal truths from the Word. "And Thou hast given them blood to drink, for they are worthy," signifies that it was permitted those who have confirmed themselves in faith alone in doctrine and in life, to falsify the truths of the Word, and to imbue their life from falsified things.

 Verse 7. "And I heard another out of the altar, saying, Yea, O Lord God Almighty, true and just are Thy judgments," signifies the Divine good of the Word confirming that Divine truth.

 Verse 8. "And the fourth angel poured out his vial into the sun," signifies influx into their love. "And it was given him to scorch men with fire," signifies that love to the Lord tortured them, because they were in the lusts of evils from the delight of their love.

Verse 9. "And men were scorched with great heat, and they blasphemed the name of God who hath authority over these plagues," signifies that on account of the delight of the love of self arising from vehement lusts of evils they did not acknowledge the Divinity of the Lord's Human, from which nevertheless flows all good of love and truth of faith. "And they repented not to give Him glory," signifies that on that account they cannot receive with any faith that the Lord is the God of heaven and earth as to His Human also, although the Word teaches it.

Verse 10. "And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the throne of the beast,"  signifies influx into their faith. "And his kingdom (church) became dark," signifies that nothing but falsities appeared.

To be continue


 

[AngelicMan]

Continue

Verse 11. "And they gnawed their tongues for distress," signifies that they could not endure truths. "And they blasphemed the God of heaven for their distresses and for their sores," signifies that they could not acknowledge the Lord alone to be the God of heaven and earth on account of resistance from interior falsities and evils. "And repented not of their works," signifies that though instructed from the Word, they still do not recede from falsities of faith and the evils of life thence.

 Verse 12. "And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates," signifies influx into their interior reasonings, by which they confirm justification by faith alone. "And the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings from the rising of the sun might be prepared," signifies that the falsities of their reasonings were removed with those who are in truths from good from the Lord, and are to be introduced into the New Church.

Verse 13. "And I saw out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet," signifies the perception that from a theology founded upon the doctrine of the Trinity of Persons in the Divinity, and upon the doctrine of justification by faith alone without the works of the law. "Three unclean spirits like frogs," signifies that there arose mere reasonings and lusts of falsifying truths.

Verse 14. "For they are spirits of demons," signifies that they were the lusts of falsifying truths and of reasoning from falsities. "Doing signs, to go away unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them together to the battle of that great day of God Almighty,"signifies attestations that their falsities are truths, and the stirring up of all in the whole of that church who are in the same falsities, to attack the truths of the New Church.
 

Verse 15. "Behold, I come as a thief; happy is he that is awake and keepeth his garments," signifies the Lord's coming, and heaven then for those who look to Him, and remain steadfast in a life according to His precepts, which are the truths of the Word. "That he may not walk naked, and they see his shame," signifies lest they should be with those who are in no truths, and their infernal loves should appear.

Verse 16. "And he gathered them together into a place called in Hebrew Armageddon," signifies the state of combat from falsities against truths, and the disposition of destroying the New Church, arising from the love of dominion and supereminence.

Verse 17. "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air," signifies influx into all things together with them. "And there went forth a great voice out of the temple of heaven from the throne, saying, It is done," signifies that it was made manifest by the Lord, that all the things of the church were devastated, and that now the Last Judgment is at hand.

Verse 18. "And there were voices, and lightnings and thunders," signifies reasonings, falsifications of truth, and arguments from the falsities of evil. "And there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, such an earthquake, so great," signifies as it were shakings, convulsions, overturnings, and the drawing down from heaven of all the things of the church.

Verse 19. "And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell," signifies that the church as to doctrine was altogether destroyed by them, and so too all the heresies which have emanated from it. "And great Babylon came into remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the wrath of His anger," signifies the destruction also at that time of the dogmas of the Roman Catholic religion.

 Verse 20. "And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found," signifies that there was no longer any truth of faith, nor any good of love.

Verse 21. "And great hail as of the weight of a talent cometh down from heaven upon men," signifies direful and atrocious falsities, by which every truth of the Word and thence of the church was destroyed. "And they blasphemed God because of the plague of hail, for the plague thereof was exceeding great," signifies that because they confirmed such falsities with themselves, they denied truths to such a degree that they could not know them, on account of repugnances arising from their interior falsities and evils.

Harry

[Petro]

Pardon my ignorance, but who is Swedenborg, and why should anyone believe what it has to say, over what the scriptures speak of plainly??

If this guy has anything to do with the Lutheran church, say no more...........


Petro

[John the Baptist]

  Have not God's creation minds to explain for themselves?
Instead we see ream & reams of others 'junk'!
---John

[AngelicMan]

Pardon my ignorance, but who is Swedenborg, and why should anyone believe what it has to say, over what the scriptures speak of plainly??

If this guy has anything to do with the Lutheran church, say no more...........
Petro

Petro
Emanuel Swedenborg
January 29, 1688 - March 29, 1772

1688  Born in Stockholm, Sweden, on January 29.  
1699-1709  Attended Uppsala University.  
1710-1715  First journey abroad, to England and the Continent.  
1716  First publications by Swedenborg in the magazine Daedalus.  
1716  Appointed Assessor in the Royal College of Mines.  
1718  Ennoblement of Swedberg family with name changed to Swedenborg. Assumption by Swedenborg of seat in House of Nobles of Swedish Diet.  

1720  Publication of Swedenborg's first book, a philosophic work titled Principles of Chemistry.  

1729-1734  Writing and publication of his most important philosophical works in three volumes, titled Philosophical and Mineralogical Works.
 
1735-1744  Period of intensive study, writing, and publication on the nature of human existence, particularly as regards the concept of the soul.
 
1743-1744  First transcendent experiences, visions or dreams, in Holland and England.
 
1745  "Call" to become a revelator, London, England.  
1747  Resignation from the Swedish Board of Mines to allow time for theological writing.  
1747-1758  Writing and publication of the twelve-volume Arcana Coelestia, Swedenborg's first major theological work.
 
1759-1761  Incidents of the Stockholm fire, the Dutch ambassador's receipt, and the Queen's secret illustrating Swedenborg's clairvoyance.
 
1769-1771  Heresy trial at Gothenburg, Sweden, involving state church accusations against Swedenborg's theology.
 
1771-1772  Publication of the two-volume True Christian Religion in Amsterdam, Holland, his last major theological work.  

1772  Death in London, England, at age 84, on March 29.  

From myself:
Swedenborg didn't start his own church. It was started after his death.

He wasn't happy with his first religion,and so was I. I use to be a Catholic. I agree with the Catholics on faith and good works, but not with their doctrine on three Divine persons. Good works is a must for salvation.

Many Protestants are misunderstanding Paul's writings on good works in Romans.

 The church I belong to is the New Church. Its doctrine is base on the writing of Swedenborg. The writings has nothing to do with the Lutheran church. We don't shun good works like their do.

Harry

[AngelicMan]

To All,
The writings in the book of Revelation has nothing to do with nations and people. It has something to do with heaven and the church. The fall of the Catholic and the Protestant Church is in the book of Revelation.

Harry

[John the Baptist]

To All,
The writings in the book of Revelation has nothing to do with nations and people. It has something to do with heaven and the church. The fall of the Catholic and the Protestant Church is in the book of Revelation.

Harry

********
John here:
You need to watch your tongue in [this] post!
It is contradictory of the Word of God! Read both the Lord's question & its answer in Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15