Is Jesus God? - Part Two

[2nd Timothy]

Many posters here seem to "get it" others are having trouble with the trinity. Perhaps this will help them understand it better.
Let's think of the trinity in terms of a Storm. God the Father would be Thunder.  Jesus would be Lightning. The Holy Spirit would be the wind. Each one is a seperate entity, but all have the full power of the Storm and are inseperatable. 

WOW....I love that analogy!!!   

[Shammu]

Another good example is the 3 leaf clover. 3 separate leaves attached as one.

That is a wonderful way of putting it David James.

[def]

yes Jesus is God.was and is Forever.He is the GLory of Jehova God!  God Himself.ALLELUJAH!!!

[Soldier4Christ]

Hi def,

Welcome to Christians Unite.

[Joyfilled]

yes Jesus is God.was and is Forever.He is the GLory of Jehova God!  God Himself.ALLELUJAH!!!

Are you saying that Father and Son are the same? If so, then why have a trinity?  Why didn't Jesus ask us to pray: "Jesus Christ who art in heaven?"

[Soldier4Christ]

That is the mystery of the Trinity. They are all separate distinct personifications and yet they are one.

Mar 12:32  And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:


Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Joh 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

[def]

That is the mystery of the Trinity. They are all separate distinct personifications and yet they are one.

Mar 12:32  And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:


Joh 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


Joh 1:14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

well i guess i just want to say my peace.OK pastor roger there it goes ....GEN,1:26and God said"Let us make man in our image,after our likeness;THE SPEAKER AND THE ONES SPOKEN TO compound UNITY...GOD IS Plural noun in created a singular verb"together they do the stuff.they are always together"when they do something it is a singular verb" there is one God in Three the trinity...take the example of " ONE DAY" morning `noonèvening`=ONE DAY  "24 hours in a day"3-8hour=24 hours=ONE DAY compound unity..but in the plan of salvation the one called the Son had to leave his Deity to become a human"man"son of man..and Mercy mercy there was a separation at the cross of the trinity for Jesus died for me...imust go now i said enough

[def]

well i guess i just want to say my peace.OK pastor roger there it goes ....GEN,1:26and God said"Let us make man in our image,after our likeness;THE SPEAKER AND THE ONES SPOKEN TO compound UNITY...GOD IS Plural noun in created a singular verb"together they do the stuff.they are always together"when they do something it is a singular verb" there is one God in Three the trinity...take the example of " ONE DAY" morning `noonèvening`=ONE DAY  "24 hours in a day"3-8hour=24 hours=ONE DAY compound unity..but in the plan of salvation the one called the Son had to leave his Deity to become a human"man"son of man..and Mercy mercy there was a separation at the cross of the trinity for Jesus died for me...imust go now i said enough

Pastor  Rogers It was a mistake  for the letters not being capital..so sorry if it happen again please excuse me i only have one good hand.OK

[Soldier4Christ]

well i guess i just want to say my peace.OK pastor roger there it goes ....GEN,1:26and God said"Let us make man in our image,after our likeness;THE SPEAKER AND THE ONES SPOKEN TO compound UNITY...GOD IS Plural noun in created a singular verb"together they do the stuff.they are always together"when they do something it is a singular verb" there is one God in Three the trinity...take the example of " ONE DAY" morning `noonèvening`=ONE DAY  "24 hours in a day"3-8hour=24 hours=ONE DAY compound unity..but in the plan of salvation the one called the Son had to leave his Deity to become a human"man"son of man..and Mercy mercy there was a separation at the cross of the trinity for Jesus died for me...imust go now i said enough

Hi def,

There are three in one God. The son did not leave His deity. God maintained His deity but also became man. God as Jesus Christ was both fully man and fully God. If He had given up His deity He would not have been the perfect sacrifice for our sins.

 

[def]

Hi def,

There are three in one God. The son did not leave His deity. God maintained His deity but also became man. God as Jesus Christ was both fully man and fully God. If He had given up His deity He would not have been the perfect sacrifice for our sins.

 

yes yes yes  ..the perfect Lamb the God Lamb..WOW..thank you Pastor Rogers I sure will meditate tonight on that with gratitude... thank you Pastor Rogers and have a good night..your sister Def..love in Jesus.

[nChrist]

" One God: Three Entities " - Page 1


VW NOTE:

The following is taken from the "Israel My Glory" magazine published by
Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry. It addresses a topic, written by an
Israeli pastor, that most Jews have this crucial doctrine messed up.
They proclaim the "shema", but don't believe in the "Trinity". They seem
to think that any sort of Trinity would also indicate more-than-one God.
Many of them also conclude that the doctrine of the Trinity originates
from Rome. I'm sure many of you have been confronted by these arguments,
as well, like I have. I've always wondered 'why' Jews refuse God's
Trinity. As it turns out, it has to do with a famous rabbi some
centuries ago who -changed- one of the Hebrew words of Scripture. As you
read, perhaps this will provide another example of why we spend so much
time with "what does the Word -say-?"

They rejected Jesus who proclaimed, "I and the Father are one" (Jn10:30)
In speaking of the continual worsenning of English translations, we have
observed that, in something like "the message", they now have a
translation that says, directly, what they believe.  When the rabbi
changed that one word, he provided the 'authentication' they were
looking for, to legitimize their rejection of "that man".

We have addressed this topic in the past from the various Scripture
passages where God presents Himself as Trinity, as well as the 'plural'
forms of words. This article also addresses those, but also gives the
foundation of the Hebrew words and their meanings; and in Part2, the
word the rabbi changed.



One God, Three Entities (Part 1)
by Meno Kalisher
(Israel My Glory January/February, 2007 pg38)

The prayer of the Shema ("Hear, 0 Israel," Dt6:4) has always been the
fundamental declaration of faith of the Jewish people and the State of
Israel. In one short verse, Moses presented a great truth about the
Godhead as a whole. This Scripture is inscribed on parchment scrolls and
placed in mezuzot (wooden or metal cases) that are fixed onto the
doorposts of every home in Israel. It is a verse that calls the people
of Israel to serve and worship one God:

Hear 0 Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one (Dt6:4, Masoretic
text).

The Hebrew Bible actually reads, "Shema Yisrael, Yehovah [YHVH]
Eloheinu, Yehovah [YHVH] Ehad" Jewish people, however, do not say the
word Yehovah for fear of taking the Lord's name in vain. Instead, they
substitute the words Adonai, Hashem ("the Name"), Elohim, or Adoshem.
The spoken Shema is usually, "Shema Yisrael, Adonai Eloheinu, Adonai
Ehad"

The Hebrew words Adonai ("Lord") and Eloheinu ("our God") use plural
forms of the word God. The word Eloheinu is a combination of Elohim
shelanu, meaning "our God." The Word Elohim is the plural form of the
word Elohah.

Why does the Lord present Himself as plural? And why, after repeating
the word God three times, does Deuteronomy 6:4 end with the word one?

To understand the verse better requires examining the meaning of the
Hebrew word ehad ("one") in the Old Testament.

==========================See Page 2

[nChrist]

" One God: Three Entities " - Page 2


EXAMPLES of EHAD

(1) "So the evening and the morning were the first day" (Gen1:5)
The Hebrew actually says "one" (ehad) day rather than "the first" day.
Morning and evening are two nouns that follow each other and, together,
constitute one day. Ehad is the union of morning and evening.

(2) "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to
his wife, and they shall become one [ehad] flesh" (2:24).
A man and a woman are two separate people whose joining together creates
one flesh.

(3) "The whole [ehad] assembly together was forty-two thousand three
hundred and sixty" (Ezra2:64; cf. Neh7:66).
The "whole" (chad), meaning 42,360 individuals gathered together,
constituted one assembly.

The word ehad does not necessarily refer to a single, individual item.
It also may mean a combination of items that constitutes a complete
whole. The Hebrew language uses a different word to describe an
undivided unity. That word is yahid.


PLURAL WORDS for GOD

To whom was the Lord speaking in Genesis 1:26?
Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the
air, and over the cattle, over all the carth and over every creeping
thing that creeps on the earth."

He was not speaking to human beings because they were not yet created.
Neither did He consult with the angels, because angels were not active
partners in creation. The Old Testament states clearly that God alone
created the world:

You alone are the LORD, You have made heaven, the heaven of heavens,
with all their host, the earth and everything on it, the seas and all
that is in them, and You preserve them all. The host of heaven worships
You (Neh9:6).

When God interrogated Job, He asked, "Where were you ... when the
morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"
(Job38:4,7). God was telling Job that when He created the universe, the
angels shouted to Him for joy.

The New Testament strongly confirms that God alone is the Creator:
For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on
earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or
principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for
Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist
(Col1:16-17),

Therefore, in Genesis 1:26 the Lord was speaking to an entity or
entities equal to Himself in image and in power to create.

King Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived, summarized the essentials
of human life by saying, "Remember now your Creator in the days of your
youth, before the difficult days come, and the years draw near when you
say, 'I have no pleasure in them'" (Ecc12:1).

The word Creator appears in Hebrew in the plural form, indicating a
plurality of Creators. Since the Creator is God, there must be a
plurality of entities in the one true God.

Plural forms of words referring to God also appear in Isaiah 54:5 ("For
your Maker is your husband, the LORD of hosts is His name") and Psalm
149:2 ("Let Israel rejoice in their Maker"). In both cases, the word
Maker is plural, as is the word husband.

Thus the word ehad describes a wholeness that consists of several
entities. The Shema of Deuteronomy 6:4 says that God is one whole who
consists of several entities and that the people of Israel must worship
this wholeness.

======================See Page 3

[nChrist]

" One God: Three Entities " - Page 3


One God, Three Entities (Part 2)
(Israel My Glory March/April, 2007 pg38)

In his 13 basic principles, renowned Rabbi Moshe Ben Maimon (1135-1205),
also known as Maimonides and the great Rambam, replaced the Hebrew word
ehad ("one") with yahid ("only one") to describe God's nature. Ehad
often denotes a compound unity, whereas yahid does not.

Although the idea of yahid stands in contrast to the Old Testament,
rabbinical Judaism embraced it and argues that God is an undivided
wholeness. However, the Bible provides many examples that clearly
testify to a plurality in the one God. God is one, but not one entity.
There is a single Godhead, one God to whom there is no equal; but that
one God exists in a plurality of entities.

The Hebrew Scriptures contain verses that refer to each of the entities
in the Godhead and clearly indicate their number.


THE SPIRIT of GOD

And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters (Gen1:2).
The Spirit of God existed from the beginning. He took part in the
creation. But the Spirit was never created; therefore He is equal to
God. The Spirit of God is an independent, vibrant entity, not merely a
trait or dormant, sense- less power. The Spirit of God can be grieved;
therefore He is a person in Himself.

There are further examples of the Spirit's existence as an individual
entity:

The Spirit of God has made me. Do not cast me away from Your presence,
and do not take Your Holy Spirit from me. Where can I go from Your
Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? The Spirit of the LORD
shall rest upon Him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit
Of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the
LORD. Who has directed the Spirit Of the LORD, or as His counselor has
taught Him? Job33:4; Ps51:11; 139:7; Isa11:2; 40:13).

But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit. ... "Where is He who put
His Holy Spirit within them...? " As a beast goes down into the valley,
and the Spirit of the LORD causes him to rest, so You lead Your people,
to make Yourself a glorious name (63:10-11,14).

And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of
Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on
Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his
only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn (Zech12:10).


SEEN and UNSEEN

Clearly, at least two entities compose the Godhead.
(1) An entity no one can see face to face and live: "But He said, 'You
cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live"' (Ex33:20).
God was speaking to Moses and promised to bless and accompany him
throughout the Israelites' journey in the desert. Moses wanted to see
the face of the Lord who was speaking to him, but was refused. Finally
Moses was allowed to see the back of the One with whom he spoke; but he
was not allowed to see His face.

If he had seen the entity's face, he would have died instantly.
Therefore, Moses clearly spoke with a God entity whose face he was
forbidden to see.

(2) An entity man could see face to face: "So the LORD spoke to Moses
face to face, as a man speaks to his friend" (Ex33:11).
The same chapter describes a special encounter between God and Moses. To
emphasize the physical closeness between them, the verse says the
encounter took place "face to face," as a man speaks to a friend. This
meeting was not a vision, dream, or voice heard from heaven, but a
face-to-face dialogue.

===================See Page 4

[nChrist]

" One God: Three Entities " - Page 4

According to Jewish rabbinical opinion, the Lord spoke to Moses through
a reflected image. However, this view is inconsistent with God's Word.
If the Lord had spoken to Moses through a reflection, the verse would
have said so instead of saying "face to face, as a man speaks to his
friend."

Using a literal, grammatical interpretation of the text, it becomes
evident that verses 11 and 20 speak of two separate entities, both of
which are referred to as "LORD."

Another example of a visible entity within the Godhead is found in
Exodus 24:9-11. Moses, Aaron, Aaron's sons Nadab and Abihu, and 70
elders of Israel ascended Mount Sinai and "saw the God of Israel. And
there was under His feet as it were a paved work of sapphire stone....
But on the nobles of the children of Israel He did not lay His hand. So
they saw God, and they ate and drank" (vv.10-11).


ISAIAH'S REVELATION

How many entities make up the Godhead? Isaiah the prophet solved the
mystery and cast a light on the relationship between the persons who
compose the living God.

In Isaiah 44:6, God says, "I am the First, and I am the Last." In Isaiah
48, the Lord describes Himself as the One who founded the earth and made
the heavens; and He declares that all are ready to do His will.

The Lord continues to speak and says that the kingdoms of those days
acted under His sovereignty. Then He says the following:

Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the
beginning, from the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD
[Adonai YHVH] and His Spirit have sent me (v.16).

The Hebrew text says, "has sent me." The verse combines the names Adonai
Yehovah [YHVH] into one entity, using the singular verb form "has sent"
rather than "have sent."

Thus the speaker is God (entity one). And He was sent by the Lord GOD
(entity two) and His Spirit (entity three). Isaiah teaches that the
oneness of the Godhead is comprised of three entities: The Spirit of God
and two others who are called "Lord."

Therefore, the meaning of the Lord's words in the Shema of Deuteronomy
6:4 becomes obvious: "Hear, 0 Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is
one." The names of the Lord appear three times in this verse, which ends
with the word ehad - "one" - to teach us that one Godhead is composed of
three entities.

Meno Kalisher is a native of Jerusalem and pastor of the Assembly House
of Redemption in Jerusalem.

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[nChrist]

*** MORSELS ***


Re: One God: three Persons

"Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the
beginning. From the time it existed, I was there; and now the Lord
Jehovah, and His Spirit, has sent Me." (Is48:16)

"For My Angel will go before you and bring you in to the...." land of
promise (Ex23:23)

"Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be ignorant, that all our
fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea, and all
were immersed into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, and all ate the
same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they
drank out of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was
Christ." (1Co10:1-4)

"Go therefore and instruct all the nations, immersing them into the name
of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," (Mt28:19)

"And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into
your hearts, crying out, Abba, Father!" (Ga4:6)

"I and the Father are One." (Jn10:30)

"And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and
a voice came from Heaven which said, You are My beloved Son; in You I am
well pleased." (Lk3:22)

"For there are three that bear witness in Heaven: the Father, the Word,
and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one." (1Jn5:7)

"Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your
presence?" (Ps139:7)

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