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February 04, 2023, 11:33:54 PM

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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
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Author Topic: Only The Saved Are In The Lordís Church  (Read 11098 times)
Paul2
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« Reply #30 on: February 25, 2005, 09:55:19 AM »

I will have to  disagree with the premise of the title of this thread due to my training in Junior High School many years   ago.   The  teachers taught us that if any question had an all inclusive or all exclusive qualifier  then the answer was false.  It works 98% of the time.  

    Well it doesn't work 100% of the time and it doesn't work this time. You need to do some studing... You'd let a liberal Jr. highschool teacher program you that there are no absolutes in life?

    I don't even know where to begin with you. School taught me how to read and do math but not how to think. Liberal teachers love to program young minds in how they should think or what they should think. Its scary to hear that they have had such an effect on you. You need to read the Bible more and listen to the way God tells us to think.

     There are absolutes, there is a right and wrong, there is truth and there are lies. Allow God Himself to define truth from lies from His Word the Bible. Salvation is from God and God will teach you his method of Salvation. How could anyone let a mere human determine their beliefs on Salvation?

     Most of us on this forum will give our viewpoints but also give the source of our viewpoints from Scripture. Cult leaders prey upon easily convinced people who do not think or study for themselves. Know why you believe as you do and be able to defend your beliefs. No human being on planet earth has true information concerning Salvation that is from any source other than the Bible.

    If you don't believe the Bible then study the Bible's fulfilled prophecy with us and you will see the truth. The answers are there for those who seek to know the truth.

                                                        Paul2
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Mathurin
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« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2005, 07:19:02 PM »

They profess that they know God: but in their works they deny him: being abominable and incredulous and to every good work reprobate.

I don't have any idea what you were talking about.  The above passage is talking about people who are in the 'Lord's Church'.  It says explicity in the passage that unless they change they will go to Hell.  So again, your original point is stupid.  
« Last Edit: February 25, 2005, 08:34:14 PM by Mathurin » Logged
nChrist
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« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2005, 07:45:27 PM »

Mathurin,

I don't think that you understand the topic of this thread.

This thread is a discussion of a church not made with human hands. The church being discussed here is not brick and mortar, rather it is THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST.

Mathurin, the members of the CHURCH being discussed here already belong to JESUS for eternity. The denomination or the name over the door of the church building they attend means absolutely nothing. JESUS CHRIST Himself is the HEAD over this church and born again Christians are HIS BODY.

This CHURCH, THE BODY OF CHRIST, has already become a purchased possession of JESUS CHRIST. The payment JESUS made for us was on the CROSS, and it is HIS BLOOD that makes our forgiveness possible. Those who are MEMBERS OF HIS BODY believe in HIM, have faith in HIM, and have made HIM the LORD over their lives. The members have been rescued, SAVED by JESUS, and they belong to JESUS for eternity.

So please draw a distinction between two very different kinds of churches:

1- A church building on this earth that might or might not have Saved people sitting in the pews.

2- THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST that is not a brick and mortar building. All of the members of this BODY are SAVED and belong to JESUS forever. There are no lost people in this BODY.

I hope this helps. When a Christian says "In Christ", this is what they are talking about.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 2:1-7  And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2005, 05:49:42 AM by blackeyedpeas » Logged

BigD
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« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2005, 04:23:10 AM »

J-2004:

BUMP

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
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Mathurin
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« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2005, 04:17:18 PM »

BEP- I understand what a church is and I fully agree that a church is built of the members and is not just a building.  I thought that the point of discussion in this thread was that people know they are saved and haven't yet been judged.  Typically, this conclusion is derived from some of Paul's letters when Paul himself, when asked, said he did not yet know if he would merit eternal salvation because he had not yet stood before the Lord for judgement.  I feel that that is an erroneous belief based on misinterpretations.
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nChrist
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« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2005, 05:28:07 PM »

BEP- I understand what a church is and I fully agree that a church is built of the members and is not just a building.  I thought that the point of discussion in this thread was that people know they are saved and haven't yet been judged.  Typically, this conclusion is derived from some of Paul's letters when Paul himself, when asked, said he did not yet know if he would merit eternal salvation because he had not yet stood before the Lord for judgment.  I feel that that is an erroneous belief based on misinterpretations.

Mathurin,

The Apostle Paul had no doubt at all about his Salvation. He knew 100% that he belonged to JESUS.

What the Apostle Paul doubted was the quality and quantity of his faith for the work and ministry God gave him to do. Paul struggled to do what God sent him to do, and Paul referred to it as a fight and a race. The Apostle Paul described many times and many ways the Grace and GIFT of God that results in Salvation. Paul also made it exceptionally clear that no man would ever deserve or earn Salvation, that it had to be a GIFT from God based on belief and faith in JESUS and the CROSS.

The Apostle Paul believed completely for him, "Absent from the body, present with Christ." The Apostle Paul also knew with all certainty that Christians would never face a condemnatory judgment like the lost do. Paul clearly taught that the only judgment that Christians would face is for their good works and the rewards God promised to those who love HIM.

Christians already belong to JESUS, and their hearts are SEALED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. The Salvation issue is already decided for eternity IMMEDIATELY for those who have faith, believe, and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. Christians don't have to wait to find out if they are saved or not.  That reality and assurance is possible right now in this life. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ, and that is RIGHT NOW, EVEN IN THIS SHORT LIFE. The only judgment a Christian must wait for is the judgment for good works and the reward or lack of reward for the works a Christian has done in this short life.

Mathurin, the fight and the race of the Apostle Paul was not for Salvation, rather the work and ministry God sent him to do. No man can work for his Salvation. That work was completed perfectly on the CROSS by Jesus Christ. What a man SHOULD work and strive for is yielding to God and doing the work GOD has for all of us. Yielding to God and being a willing vessel for HIS work is the fight and race, not Salvation. The thief on the cross next to the CROSS OF JESUS had no good works, but he was saved most certainly and simply by his faith in JESUS. The thief didn't have to wait for judgment because JESUS told him then where he was going after death. GOD'S WORD has already told Christians where they are going after physical death. It's a beautiful and precious PROMISE BY ALMIGHTY GOD THAT WILL MOST DEFINITELY BE KEPT MOST COMPLETELY AND PERFECTLY.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 5:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Galatians 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Romans 12:1-2  I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Romans 3:24  Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Philippians 1:21  For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

Romans 5:17-18  For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)  Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 8:38-39 For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Ephesians 2:1-7  And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Colossians 1:12-14  Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Galatians 4:4-7  But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

Ephesians 1:12-14  That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

2 Corinthians 5:17-18  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
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Mathurin
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« Reply #36 on: February 27, 2005, 09:39:39 PM »

This is what Paul said:  1Cor: 4

But to me it is a very small thing to be judged by you or by man's day. But neither do I judge my own self.  For I am not conscious to myself of anything. Yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.  Therefore, judge not before the time: until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts. And then shall every man have praise from God.
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« Reply #37 on: February 27, 2005, 11:50:03 PM »

This is what Paul said:  1Cor: 4

But to me it is a very small thing to be judged by you or by man's day. But neither do I judge my own self.  For I am not conscious to myself of anything. Yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.  Therefore, judge not before the time: until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts. And then shall every man have praise from God.


Mathurin,

If you read the Scriptures I gave you in context, you will understand. First, there is a big difference between the judgment of men and the judgment of God. Second, there is a huge difference between the judgment by God for condemnation and eternal destruction and the judgment by God of Christians for their works and their rewards for those works.

Right now, this second, there are only two conditions - lost or saved.

If you are lost when you physically die, you will be judged by God for condemnation and eternal punishment.

If you are saved when you physically die, you will be absent from the body and present with the lord. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ, so Christians aren't judged for punishment - EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE - Christians are judged for rewards.

Right now - THIS SECOND - you either have the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT ON YOUR HEART AND YOU ALREADY BELONG TO JESUS - or you don't have the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT ON YOUR HEART and you don't belong to JESUS. THIS SECOND - JESUS already knows those who belong to HIM, as the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT IS ALREADY ON THEIR HEARTS and the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD lives in their hearts - RIGHT NOW - not a thousand years from now - not only after judgment - RIGHT NOW.

Mathurin, the judgment of men has nothing to do with Salvation, as only GOD knows the heart of men.

There is one judgment for the lost that involves punishment and eternal destruction. This will be at the Great White Throne Judgment.

There is a completely different judgment for the SAVED that involves judgment of works for REWARDS - NOT punishment. This will be at the Bema Seat - NOT the Great White Throne Judgment.

The easiest way to understand this is:

There is no condemnation for those who are in CHRIST. The punishment for sins was paid for by JESUS on the CROSS with HIS BLOOD. For those who believe, have faith, and accept JESUS CHRIST as their LORD AND SAVIOUR, JESUS already took our punishment in HIS own body.  (BEMA SEAT JUDGMENT FOR REWARDS).

For those who have rejected JESUS CHRIST as their LORD AND SAVIOUR, they will be judged for eternal punishment and destruction if they physically die in their sins without accepting JESUS CHRIST. (GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT FOR PUNISHMENT AND ETERNAL DESTRUCTION.)

If you want to include the judgment of men while we still physically live, man's judgment has absolutely nothing to do with whether a person belongs to JESUS or not. I hope this helps you some. Between you and GOD, you can know right now if you are SAVED or not. GOD ALREADY KNOWS RIGHT NOW AND SO CAN YOU - THIS SECOND!

Love In Christ,
Tom

II Timothy 4:8  Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
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