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Author Topic: Bible contradictions or interpretive contradictions  (Read 3085 times)
Melody
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« on: December 20, 2004, 09:09:55 PM »

Let's see if I can do this again in a much clearer way since someone already misread my question.

If we must obey one of the old testament laws, why do we not have to obey all of them.  Someone told me that it is because some are moral laws and some are cultural laws.  Sorry....I'm forbidden to mention the specific law in question so I can't be any more specific than that.

However, if this is true, how do you decide which laws are moral and which are cultural?  


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Kris777
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« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2004, 09:52:41 PM »

I have found that some old rules are replaced.  Some examples:  I don't have the exact location in the bible, but in the Old Testament the Lord had animals that if people touched or ate it would defile them, but in the New Testament Paul says that we can eat anything.  Also in the Old Testament things had to be done a certain way and you had to present yourself and your offerings to God in a certain way for them to be acceptable.  Now sence Jesus came and died on the cross for us it made us able to come to God boldly. I don't know why you would be forbidden to ask a specific question, but hope that I helped some way.  Also I have a hint that you might be a little caught up in the law.  Don't do that.  Yes it is important to try to please God, but don't go over board.  God has created these rules for us to follow because He wants us to see how sinful we are and realize how much we need Him.  Check out Romans.  Believe me I can be a rule keeping nut.  I just haven't figured out how much is healthy and when I go overboard because if you go overboard it knocks you away from God because you are constantly to afraid to come to Him.

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Kris
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Melody
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« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2004, 10:07:13 PM »

I have found that some old rules are replaced.  Some examples:  I don't have the exact location in the bible, but in the Old Testament the Lord had animals that if people touched or ate it would defile them, but in the New Testament Paul says that we can eat anything.  

What happens if the particular law isn't mentioned in the NT?  Are you saying you think that means then we go by what the OT says?

Also I have a hint that you might be a little caught up in the law.  

No, I'm trying to get a handle on why some people use the OT as a reason for considering something sinful, but pick and choose which parts of the OT they use.  This seems contradictory and leaves me more confused than ever.

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Symphony
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« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2004, 10:28:22 PM »

No, I'm trying to get a handle on why some people use the OT as a reason for considering something sinful, but pick and choose which parts of the OT they use.  

When you are reading the Old Testament, Melody, you are looking into the mind of God.


This seems contradictory and leaves me more confused than ever.

Precisely.  "...things into which angels long to look."

The angels, Satan along with them, expected God to act according to His own Old Testament law.

You are exactly right.  Indeed, by Old Testament law, we should all be dead now, as the Flood demonstrated, and as is our desserts:  "...the soul that sins, shall surely die."

It is exactly a contradiction, because How can a "just" God let any of us then go free??

And why are we even "alive", in this body of death, today?
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Melody
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« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2004, 10:34:09 PM »

No, I'm trying to get a handle on why some people use the OT as a reason for considering something sinful, but pick and choose which parts of the OT they use.  

When you are reading the Old Testament, Melody, you are looking into the mind of God.


This seems contradictory and leaves me more confused than ever.

Precisely.  "...things into which angels long to look."

The angels, Satan along with them, expected God to act according to His own Old Testament law.

You are exactly right.  Indeed, by Old Testament law, we should all be dead now, as the Flood demonstrated, and as is our desserts:  "...the soul that sins, shall surely die."

It is exactly a contradiction, because How can a "just" God let any of us then go free??

And why are we even "alive", in this body of death, today?

Ok...if it's possible to be even more confused..... Undecided
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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2004, 10:49:47 PM »

The Bible, doesn't always speak, plainly, like a telephone directory, or a technical manual, Melody.

In the NT, Jesus tells the disciples He speaks in parables for a specific reason.

Also, the OT is, in many places, an enigma.  Though it is the most published book in the world.

But if it were spelled out clearly, would we even read it.

And Paul in the NT acknowledges that, "Behold, I tell you a mystery..."

Which is part of the beauty.

But if it seems in the OT like you're cherry picking to support only what you want it to support, perhaps think again.

Perhaps the substance of what you are interpreting is "spiritually discerned"?

How do you know that something is right, or wrong?

Because you can see that it is.

That is what is meant, in numerous places, by "walking in the Spirit".

Do you have disobedience anywhere in your own life?

Then likely that spiritual discernment will leave you, leaving you to figure things out on your own.

(Romans 1:24)  "Therefore God gave them up..."

Obedience to God brings us back into a right relationship with Him, from which then He gives us His Spirit, which brings with it that discernment.

You know that something is wrong, then, because "you can see that it is".   Not because of some law somewhere(although that may indeed be there somewhere confirming what you already know...).

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Melody
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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2004, 12:20:33 AM »

But if it seems in the OT like you're cherry picking to support only what you want it to support, perhaps think again.

How do you know that something is right, or wrong?

Because you can see that it is.


Interesting choice of words -- cherry picking.  That's what those on the other side of the fence have been calling it.  Hmmmm.....

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nChrist
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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2004, 03:02:59 AM »

Melody,

Read Romans. There are no contradictions or confusion. This is the dispensation of Grace, and many of the same sins from the Old Testament are mentioned again, including what you can't and will not be allowed to discuss here.

I gave you the answer, so I'll give it to you again. Homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of God both in the Old Testament and the New Testament. The only difference is that we are no longer commanded to stone them to death. Your point will not be made or accomplished here. There is no pulpit for that agenda here, and there won't be one.

Forget about someone who gave you some technical mumbo jumbo about sin and read what the Bible says about it. Romans will do just fine for a start. It's as plain, blunt, and to the point as you can get. There is no confusion at all except what the devil wants to create.

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Melody
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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2004, 07:37:09 AM »

Melody,

Read Romans. There are no contradictions or confusion. This is the dispensation of Grace, and many of the same sins from the Old Testament are mentioned again, including what you can't and will not be allowed to discuss here.

I gave you the answer, so I'll give it to you again. Homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of God both in the Old Testament and the New Testament. The only difference is that we are no longer commanded to stone them to death. Your point will not be made or accomplished here. There is no pulpit for that agenda here, and there won't be one.

Forget about someone who gave you some technical mumbo jumbo about sin and read what the Bible says about it. Romans will do just fine for a start. It's as plain, blunt, and to the point as you can get. There is no confusion at all except what the devil wants to create.

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Again...you are completely misunderstanding me!  I do not want to discuss that topic, nor am I trying to make a point about it!  It was merely the most obvious of what people are pulling as a sin from the OT while apparently overlooking others.

My question was...and still is....what determination is made when deciding what to keep from the OT....because some things are not.  I *have* read Romans.  It did not answer my question.

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Melody
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« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2004, 07:56:17 AM »

BEP,
You are, and have been, making the assumption that I have some agenda I'm trying to push on this topic.  Please leave off your preconceived notions which this word seems to trigger.  I don't give a rat's toenail about what people think of that particular topic.  I do not want to talk about that particular topic (how many times and ways can I say that?).  I am merely trying to understand the Bible.  

There are many things that I find contradictory about the Bible and I am trying to resolve them because if the Bible is the Word of God then there should not be any contradictions.   If the contradictions cannot be explained, then that poses a problem for me.  Hence my question...and perhaps my answer as well.

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Melody
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« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2004, 08:10:45 AM »

There is no longer a need to respond to this thread.  I reread Romans this morning in the KJV....and am a little stunned that the answer is so clear where the other 4 versions I've read are murky.  Either that or God just hit me over the head with the Bible....which He's done before when I seem to be a bit dull witted.


Thank you to those who responded though.

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nChrist
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« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2004, 02:25:28 PM »

Sister Melody,

Please forgive me if I misunderstood. That topic was in the original post, and we have had an untold number of people almost determined to discuss that sin and others as being acceptable behavior in the New Testament or because Jesus died on the cross for us. Jesus Christ did die on the cross for us and will forgive us our sins if we confess and repent.

Many other portions of the New Testament bluntly state that Jesus didn't die for us so we could continue in open and on purpose sin.

Again, I apologize if I misunderstood. Maybe you were thinking about some of the nearly 700 laws of the Old Testament that were given by men or given for a time and a people before Jesus walked this earth in the form of a man and died for us. Many of those 700 laws no longer apply. They involved cleansing rituals, burnt offerings, animal sacrifices, and many other laws that Jesus fulfilled completely and forever on the CROSS.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 4:14  But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
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Melody
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« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2004, 02:36:04 PM »

Sister Melody,

Please forgive me if I misunderstood.

Maybe you were thinking about some of the nearly 700 laws of the Old Testament that were given by men or given for a time and a people before Jesus walked this earth in the form of a man and died for us. Many of those 700 laws no longer apply. They involved cleansing rituals, burnt offerings, animal sacrifices, and many other laws that Jesus fulfilled completely and forever on the CROSS.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Thank you.  That did answer part of my question and the KJV Romans also clarified.    Smiley
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« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2004, 11:14:35 PM »

There are many things that I find contradictory about the Bible and I am trying to resolve them because if the Bible is the Word of God then there should not be any contradictions.  If the contradictions cannot be explained, then that poses a problem for me.  Hence my question...and perhaps my answer as well.


Again, if it were all spelled out, clear as a telephone directory, would we even consult it?

Or perhaps more importantly, would it be too strong for us.

Don't we have to have things watered down, diluted, put in any number of different ways(how many prophets, major and minor, are there in the OT, spelling out basically the same message, in any number of ways...??), in parable form, in obscurity, just so we'll try to figure them out?

A God coming down and offering Himself up for His own rebellious creation, in the name of nothing more than "love", is revolutionary, unthinkable, to say the least.  Is there any other "god", in all the pantheon of human mythology or theology, of such a nature - or story?

Could that same God be expected to spell out to his creation something only in stark clarity, or would he, or should he, do so in some degree of obscurity, veiled indirectness, etc.?

After all, His birth, the Christmas manger, was in obscurity and - no room in the inn.

Perhaps, however, on a slightly different note, who am I, to dictate to God, that His inspired Word to me, should only be to me as I think fit?  And who am I, to decide, precisely what is, or what isn't, a contradiction, in the first place?

Could the appearance of a contraction in the Old or New Testament possibly mean my own inadequacy to understand what is really being said, or is it always just God's fault?

Or, perhaps more to the point, is the burden of proof as to God's acceptability, always up to Him, to demonstrate to me?

And if that is true, then aren't I really the one who is God, and Him really just my inadequate servant, since He's failed to iiron out or remove what to me must certainly be obvious contradictions in the Bible?

Or is any of this line of reasoning unfair?
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Saved_4ever
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« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2004, 07:04:01 AM »

There is no longer a need to respond to this thread.  I reread Romans this morning in the KJV....and am a little stunned that the answer is so clear where the other 4 versions I've read are murky.  Either that or God just hit me over the head with the Bible....which He's done before when I seem to be a bit dull witted.


Thank you to those who responded though.



That's cause the KJV is best.   Wink
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