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nChrist
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« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2005, 02:25:16 PM »

Quote
If I'm totally clueless and ignorant of Bible prophecy, then perhaps you could clue me in!......What nation is the "little horn" which came out of one of the 4 kingdoms upon the earth, and of which Daniel said?:

"Out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed ecceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the "pleasant land".
And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; (to Christians) and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them".  Dan.8:9-10

So.....which "exceeding great" nation is this, which stomps upon its Christian hosts?!

FayeC,

You have already ignored sound doctrine posted in numerous areas of the board. Your question is already answered. I refuse to argue with you, as I have more important things to do with my time.

I see that you had no interest in answering my questions about JESUS. That told me a lot. Whether you are saved or not is now my concern. Much of the deeper things of the WORD are spiritually discerned with the help of the Holy Spirit, and those deeper things of the WORD would certainly include Bible prophecy. I think that you need to hear about JESUS, and I would love to share JESUS with you. Please start out in the Apologetics area with the FAQ for non-Christians, and many here will help you in any way that we can.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 8:12  Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
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« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2005, 02:49:31 PM »

Quote
If I'm totally clueless and ignorant of Bible prophecy, then perhaps you could clue me in!......What nation is the "little horn" which came out of one of the 4 kingdoms upon the earth, and of which Daniel said?:

"Out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed ecceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the "pleasant land".
And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; (to Christians) and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them".  Dan.8:9-10

So.....which "exceeding great" nation is this, which stomps upon its Christian hosts?!

FayeC,

You have already ignored sound doctrine posted in numerous areas of the board. Your question is already answered. I refuse to argue with you, as I have more important things to do with my time.

I see that you had no interest in answering my questions about JESUS. That told me a lot. Whether you are saved or not is now my concern. Much of the deeper things of the WORD are spiritually discerned with the help of the Holy Spirit, and those deeper things of the WORD would certainly include Bible prophecy. I think that you need to hear about JESUS, and I would love to share JESUS with you. Please start out in the Apologetics area with the FAQ for non-Christians, and many here will help you in any way that we can.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 8:12  Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Tom,
That's a cop-out, and you know it.

Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior of my life......Now, would you please answer the question I asked of you, which was, "Which nation today is this "little horn" which Daniel speaks about?
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« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2005, 03:12:38 PM »

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What nation is the "little horn" which came out of one of the 4 kingdoms upon the earth, and of which Daniel said?:


Sorry to butt in late here, but this is answered a few verses later.

Dan 7:24  'As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings.

The little horn is a King not a nation.  This is not my opinion, but stated from the word.

Grace and Peace!
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« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2005, 03:30:45 PM »

I openly admitt that I am not as well learned in prophicy as I should like, I am only seventeen years old but reading some of the above posts I cannot help but relay to all of you something that has been sering in my mind the past few weeks.  It is not a perfect match for the convo but I think it is close enough that it will add to the discussion.
  I love history, specifically U.S. History and something I have learned is that the puritains have been arguably the biggest factors in our national identity.  The puritain Ideaolgy of self examination and expossing wrongs so that they may be corrected is still obvious in the american mindset.  I could alaberate more if it is so desired but for now I digress.
  The puritains left europe not to seperate from the body of Christ but move away from the corruption and set up an example in a virgin wilderness.  "A City on a Hill" they believed that if they came to this wilderness they could set up a perfect Christian sociaty that would undoughtedly prove to all nations what true Christians look like and thus be a witness and example to all.  
  the above is fact to the best of my knowledge here is where I step out on faith in what I believe to be devine revalation.  I believe that when Christians step in faith as ordered by God and verbalise what I believe to be a prophetic word that America will be a city on a hill it must come to pass because when God speaks it is as good as done, it comes into existence with his speach.  I believe that when the puritains came to america it was paralell to Abraham coming out of his land to go to a new land and create a new nation.  I believe that there is a prophetic statement made by our ancestors centuries ago that God will honor for their sakes even though it has been forgotten for generation.
  I understand that it is arguable that this has been fulfilled already but I think that it has not yet been fulfilled to it's potential, I would say that we have been a city on a hill politically and in other areana's through history but I believe that we have yet to become the whitness of true christian sociaty that was prophicied over this nation by our ancestors.
  I think that befor the end there will be an awekening of the church in America to an extent that noone has ever seen and I think that this is the generation that will complete it.  I believe that before the end this nation will become a spiritual lite to the world.
the scripture says that there will be 5 virgins tha are ready for his coming and 5 that are not, personally I don't see 5 virgins that have all the oil ( spirit ) that they need.  I do not believe that Christ will return for a sad devided and defeated bride but ofr a glorious bride that is in love with Him.  I believe that before the end ther will be revival that will start here in america and spread to the world a revival that will make the great awekening look small and weak.  It is not a matter, to me, of surviving to the time that I see Christ return but instead a time for a great offencive for prayer and reclaiming of the heritage that this nation has, the promise that is over it.  
This has been constantly on my mind and my writting probably can't justify the reality of what I am thinking but
I would love to hear you opinions as to weather I could be correct in my thinking.  please do not take offence at anything I say, assume I misspoke and ask me for I never intend to offend anyone.

God Bless all of You and
God Bless America

Elear2787

Hello Elear2787!   Welcome to Christians Unite.  

Your thought process here seems to make good sense.   I think the problem believing this has fulfilled prophecy in Revelation is, that those events are yet future.   Until Christ begins breaking the seals, the rest of the events spoken of in Revelation cannot begin.   There are some that teach (endtimeprophecy.com for eg.) that we are approaching the sixth trumpet.   From my understanding of bible prophecy, this does not make sense.   I don't think there will be any question when Revelation begins in earnest.   It will be drastic, and world shapping from the first seal.   The revealing of the Antichrist will be the marker that it has begun.   The first seal, first rider.

2Th 2:2  that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Th 2:3  Let no one in any way deceive you, for it (the day of the Lord) will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

2Th 2:4  who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

(emphasis mine)

The Day of the Lord will commence when this man is revealed, and not until.

We're not there yet, but I believe we are getting close.  I do believe the Rapture will take place before the day of the Lord also, but that is better left for another thread.

Anyways, good talk!

Grace and Peace!
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« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2005, 03:45:44 PM »

Quote
What nation is the "little horn" which came out of one of the 4 kingdoms upon the earth, and of which Daniel said?:


Sorry to butt in late here, but this is answered a few verses later.

Dan 7:24  'As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings.

The little horn is a King not a nation.  This is not my opinion, but stated from the word.

Grace and Peace!

"Kings" are "peoples", Timothy.  And in this instance, it's referring to the "10 horned beast"; the "man of sin"...."son of perdition", who take over the "little horn" kingdom from it's previous hosts....And the host of that nation ends up "worshipping" them.

The "little horn" is a "kingdom"; or "nation" which,  at one time honored Christ, but "fell away" from him....called the "falling away" in 11Thes.2.

The falling away occured within the "little horn" kingdom; or that which Christ called "the holy place"  in Mat.24.15.

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« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2005, 03:47:03 PM »

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What nation is the "little horn" which came out of one of the 4 kingdoms upon the earth, and of which Daniel said?:


Sorry to butt in late here, but this is answered a few verses later.

Dan 7:24  'As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings.

The little horn is a King not a nation.  This is not my opinion, but stated from the word.

Grace and Peace!

"Kings" are "peoples", Timothy.  And in this instance, it's referring to the "10 horned beast"; the "man of sin"...."son of perdition", who take over the "little horn" kingdom from it's previous hosts....And the host of that nation ends up "worshipping" them.

The "little horn" is a "kingdom"; or "nation" which,  at one time honored Christ, but "fell away" from him....called the "falling away" in 11Thes.2.

The falling away occured within the "little horn" kingdom; or that which Christ called "the holy place"  in Mat.24.15.



I stepped on a bug once...
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« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2005, 04:09:59 PM »

Quote
"Kings" are "peoples", Timothy.  And in this instance, it's referring to the "10 horned beast";
 the "man of sin"...."son of perdition", who take over the "little horn" kingdom from it's previous hosts....And the host of that nation ends up "worshipping" them.
The "little horn" is a "kingdom"; or "nation" which,  at one time honored Christ, but "fell away" from him....called the "falling away" in 11Thes.2.

The falling away occured within the "little horn" kingdom; or that which Christ called "the holy place"  in Mat.24.15.

Let me just post the scripture this time.

Dan 7:7  "After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.
Dan 7:8  "While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth uttering great boasts.


Dan 7:19  "Then I desired to know the exact meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its claws of bronze, and which devoured, crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet,
Dan 7:20  and the meaning of the ten horns that were on its head and the other horn which came up, and before which three of them fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth uttering great boasts and which was larger in appearance than its associates.
Dan 7:21  "I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
Dan 7:22  until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.
Dan 7:23  "Thus he said: 'The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it.
Dan 7:24  'As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25  'He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.



There is a fourth KINGDOM, and there are 10 Kings that rule within this fourth Kingdom.  The little Horn is another KING that rises out of that Kingdom and pulls down three of the other Kings.    I think we both agree that the little horn is the Antichrist.   Not sure where you are getting nations from though.

The falling away in 2 Thes. is not talking about a nation.   Please supply the chapter and verse that says a particular nation will fall away?

Grace and Peace!
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« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2005, 04:17:29 PM »

Allinall Said:
Quote
I stepped on a bug once...


Alrighty then!   Begs the question...can a nation wear a shoe?  Tongue   Grin
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« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2005, 03:29:55 AM »

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FayeC Said:

Tom,
That's a cop-out, and you know it.

Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior of my life......Now, would you please answer the question I asked of you, which was, "Which nation today is this "little horn" which Daniel speaks about?

FayeC,

I've decided to be blunt and tell it like it is so that everyone will know who they are dealing with in you.

We don't allow skinhead, white supremest, or Nazi racist garbage here, and that was exactly what your post was that I deleted several days ago. The Jesus Christ that I worship loves people of all colors and died for everyone who will accept Him.

I really don't know what you agenda is here, nor do I care. I'll simply tell you bluntly that everything you do here will be reviewed and you may not be here long. There won't be any more warnings, so I suggest that you read the forum rules.

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« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2005, 03:34:26 AM »

We are spirits 1st  They have no color or race  .There is no place in the church for judging the out ward appearance ?Ask this is not TRUE judgement .
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lean not to your own understanding ,the just live by faith ,you do not need to be taught of any man ,the HOLY  SPIRIT will teach you everything .We are NEW CREATURES IN CHRIST JESUS .NOT OF THIS WORLD .WE ARE AS OUR LORD .HE WILL RETURN SOON FOR HIS BRIDE .Rev 1:6  And hath made us kings and priests
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« Reply #55 on: January 06, 2005, 08:31:06 AM »

The little horn isn't a nation. He is the anti-christ. Do a simple word study of that passage and the other passages related to it, and you'll see that the "Little-horn" is personified. Just a few thoughts.
GB

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« Reply #56 on: January 06, 2005, 11:21:39 AM »

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Daniel 8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.


Fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes.

Quote
Daniel 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

Medes-Persians{Bear - Daniel 7:5} - [Silver - Daniel 2:39] Isaiah 44:28, Isaiah 45:1-4

Quote
Daniel 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

Greek{Leopard - Daniel 7:6} - [Brass - Daniel 2:39] --- Alexander the Great

Quote
Daniel 8:22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.

Macedonia, Syria, Egypt, Asia Minor, were ruled by Alexander’s four generals --- Casander, Lysimachus, Seleucus and Ptolemy following the death of Alexander in 323 BC.

Quote
Daniel 8:23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.


Some scholars say Antiochus Epiphanes has fulfilled some of this, but also showing what the Antichrist will be like in the end times. Research the Seleucid dynasty and also Antiochus Epiphanes(antiGod of the old testament), you can find him in the Maccabees, you'll look at Daniel chapter 8 differently.
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« Reply #57 on: January 06, 2005, 11:38:44 AM »

The "Great Image" of Nebuchadnezzar.

Quote
Daniel 2:32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
Daniel 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

Quote
Daniel 2:38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

Babylon{Lion Daniel 7:4} - Jeremiah 49:14-22,28; Daniel chapter 4 used both the lion and the eagle as pictures of Nebuchadnezzar.

Quote
Daniel 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

Medes-Persians Daniel 5:28 {Bear - 3 ribs - Babylon, Egypt and Lydia. Daniel 7:5}

Greek/Roman{Leopard - Daniel 7:6} - [Belly and his thighs of brass],

Quote
Daniel 2:40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

{Dreadful and Terrible - Daniel 7:7; Revelation 13:1-2}

Quote
Daniel 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
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« Reply #58 on: January 06, 2005, 12:04:08 PM »

Very well said. I see someone's been doing their research...lol I enjoyed the commentary on the great image of nebuchanezzar. Baseed on what i've read, you're right on the money about the image. And i'm sure you'll agree with me that the 6th world power is rome. However, there is some discrepancy amongst some christians that i've seen, that the 7th kingdom is that of the anti-christ or whether it is tha tof Christ Himself...i do not think that it is the latter. But just a few thoughts to add. I couldn't have posted it better myself. God Bless and keep up the good work!

Joshua
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« Reply #59 on: January 06, 2005, 10:58:08 PM »

Quote
"Kings" are "peoples", Timothy.  And in this instance, it's referring to the "10 horned beast";
 the "man of sin"...."son of perdition", who take over the "little horn" kingdom from it's previous hosts....And the host of that nation ends up "worshipping" them.
The "little horn" is a "kingdom"; or "nation" which,  at one time honored Christ, but "fell away" from him....called the "falling away" in 11Thes.2.

The falling away occured within the "little horn" kingdom; or that which Christ called "the holy place"  in Mat.24.15.

Let me just post the scripture this time.

Dan 7:7  "After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.
Dan 7:8  "While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth uttering great boasts.


Dan 7:19  "Then I desired to know the exact meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its claws of bronze, and which devoured, crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet,
Dan 7:20  and the meaning of the ten horns that were on its head and the other horn which came up, and before which three of them fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth uttering great boasts and which was larger in appearance than its associates.
Dan 7:21  "I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
Dan 7:22  until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.
Dan 7:23  "Thus he said: 'The fourth beast will be a fourth kingdom on the earth, which will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth and tread it down and crush it.
Dan 7:24  'As for the ten horns, out of this kingdom ten kings will arise; and another will arise after them, and he will be different from the previous ones and will subdue three kings.
Dan 7:25  'He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.



There is a fourth KINGDOM, and there are 10 Kings that rule within this fourth Kingdom.  The little Horn is another KING that rises out of that Kingdom and pulls down three of the other Kings.    I think we both agree that the little horn is the Antichrist.   Not sure where you are getting nations from though.

The falling away in 2 Thes. is not talking about a nation.   Please supply the chapter and verse that says a particular nation will fall away?

Grace and Peace!

Yes, the little horn is anti-(against) Christ, but, the little horn is clearly a nation.
Again, look at the scripture which describes the little horn:

"And out of one of them (out of one of the kingdoms) came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them."

If the little horn is a man (called Antichrist as you suppose,) then are you saying that Antichrist waxs great to "Christians" on the earth?!

"The falling away is not talking about a nation.  Please suppy the chapter and verse that says a nation will fall away."

Daniel doesn't use the term "falling away"......He goes into more detail by saying, "After threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, and in the midst of the week, he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease."

It's the little horn which cuts off Messiah, and causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease, for notice 8:11-12 (still talking about the little horn.)

"Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and "by him (by the little horn) the daily sacrifice was taken away", and the place of his sanctuary was cast down."
"And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered."

The United States has indeed practiced and prospered since it cut off Christ, and took away daily school prayer back in 1962.....Don't you think?
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