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FayeC
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« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2004, 08:53:11 AM »

FayeC  Smiley

It is quite obvious that Jerusalem is is the City that Daniel is talking about...because he even names the city in 9:25.    It is also quite obvious both Jesus and Daniel were talking about the Holy Place in the temple of God.   When was messiah cut off?   In 1962, or when Christ was crucified?    I wish to be gentle here, but you are translating things in scripture that need no translation.   The text makes plain sense.  Why do you seek sense that fits a model, rather than letting the text speak for itself?   We could make up anything we like about the text this way.

China for example forbids Christian prayer in school.  Its against the law to own a bible.  People caught preaching the gospel are thrown into jail.   BTW there was a China/India  War in 1962!   Theres the threescore and two weeks!   Wink  Using this method of interpretation, I could argue that Daniel was surely talking about China more than America.   See what I mean?   We can make it mean anything we want this way....But we both know Daniel is not talking about China.  (at least I hope we do)


I really mean this in the nicest way possible.   It just appears you are spiritualizing every other word for the sake of making it fit your pre-conceived idea.   This will only lead to errors.  

When the text make plain sense, seek no other sense.  

Grace and Peace!



Tim,

Daniel is NOT talking about "Christ's crucifiction" in 9:26!...He's talking about the end of the age when the "falling away" occurs!

It would appear that you are the one confused, along with most of the church world today, I might add.  For many, if not most today believe as you, but you and they are wrong.

Both Daniel and Revelation is about things which occur in the "last days" leading up to Christ's return.
According to Dan.9:25, the last days commences when Israel is restored as a nation.  That occured in 48....thus we have been living in what is called the "end-times" since 1948.  And the things written in 2Thes.2, and Daniel, and Revelation, and Mat.24:15, along with Romans 1, and a host of others, is  about none other than America; the once mighty Christian nation of which "the host" has turned their backs on God.

THAT'S what those scriptures are about, and until you realize that, you'll continue to be confused.
 

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« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2004, 09:06:43 AM »

Quote
Tim,

Daniel is NOT talking about "Christ's crucifiction" in 9:26!...He's talking about the end of the age when the "falling away" occurs!

It would appear that you are the one confused, along with most of the church world today, I might add.  For many, if not most today believe as you, but you and they are wrong.

Both Daniel and Revelation is about things which occur in the "last days" leading up to Christ's return.
According to Dan.9:25, the last days commences when Israel is restored as a nation.  That occured in 48....thus we have been living in what is called the "end-times" since 1948.  And the things written in 2Thes.2, and Daniel, and Revelation, and Mat.24:15, along with Romans 1, and a host of others, is  about none other than America; the once mighty Christian nation of which "the host" has turned their backs on God.

THAT'S what those scriptures are about, and until you realize that, you'll continue to be confused.

 Smiley   I certainly don't claim a monopoly on all of Gods truth and mysteries, nor do I wish to debate or argue about it.    Like I said before, we can agree to disagree and still Love each other in the Lord.   It does not appear we will make any headway discussing this further, so I will relent here.

May God richly bless you and keep you!

Grace and Peace!
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« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2004, 03:22:05 PM »

God deals with Israel in the End Times. The city is Jerusalem...if you can't see this then you dis-regard both History and Prophecy faye...Here's my point. You can stand there and say that the city is not Jerusalem all you want, but the fact is, that is the place where Christ will set His foot back down on this earth. It would make no sense whatsoever, nor would it follow Scripture, that Christ would set foot in America before He set foot in Israel. Also It doesn't make sense, nor does it follow Scripture, that Christ will be anointed the Holy One in America. That is clearly talking about Jerusalem. Remember that Jesus is the King of the Jews. and they will crown Him king when He comes back and sets foot in Jerusalem! Makes sense considering His Throne will be set in Jerusalem, both old and New Jerusalem. also what is failed to be taken into account is this: The Holy One hasn't been anointed as King of Israel by the Nation of Israel yet, the 70th week has not begun because there has not been a covenant between the antichrist and the nations., there has not been an end put to transgression...Israel is still a desolate nation spiritually, and Iniquity still hasn't been put to an end because of the fact that there is still violence in Israel at the moment. So to sa y that this was fulfilled in 1962, isn't right.  Also, the abomination of Desolation is clearly seen to have been done in ISRAEL considering the Temple Mount and the New Temple will be located in Jerusalem.  Jesus said that when they saw the Abomination of Desolation that He told them to flee to the mountains of Judea. Now how in the world, are we going to flee to the mountains of judea after the judgements of God? what you've posted doesn't make sense and I don't see how it lines up with Scripture, faye. So sad...I will follow Timothy's lead and i wont bring this to contention. God Bless.

Joshua
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nChrist
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« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2004, 02:51:13 AM »

AMEN 2ND TIMOTHY & JOSHUA!!

It is painfully obvious that many are being led far astray by false prophets and false teachers. I did a search on the Internet the other day and was amazed to find an unbelievable number of false prophets and false teachers with huge followings. On the surface, some of their teachings made partial sense, but that would be giving them far too much credit.

Far too many babes in Christ are buying what these snake-oil salesmen have to offer. It's very sad there are so many without an adequate foundation in the WORD and get sucked into the teachings and doctrines of just about every snake-oil salesman that comes down the pike. NOW, more than ever, people need sound teaching from HIS HOLY WORD.

There appears to be a common denominator with many of the false prophets and false teachers. They like to concentrate and isolate portions of Scripture that fit their agenda or tale. In context and the rest of the Bible is ignored for a big reason - IT EXPOSES WHAT THEY ARE SAYING AS A LIE.

I was astonished to find hundreds of self-proclaimed prophets, prophetesses, and apostles - all claiming divine revelation directly from God. I don't know how many there actually are, but they appear to be on every corner, and many of them are getting filthy rich from the offerings of poor people who think they are actually giving to someone who is REAL. Poor people by the thousands are being reeled in for brain-washing and LIES. This makes them completely blind and deaf of the TRUTH. I'll put it simply and bluntly, MUCH OF IT IS STRAIGHT FROM THE DEVIL!

Many people are still looking for miracles, signs, and wonders for belief, and the devil is giving it to them. Once they have been reeled in and brain-washed, they are blind and deaf to THE SIMPLE TRUTH OF GOD'S WORD. This is a time of growing evil and great confusion. Those who are babes in Christ or who have failed to gain strength in JESUS are being led away into the darkness and made crippled or useless as Ambassadors for Christ.

Brothers, this is a time that demands much prayer, patience, and longsuffering to continue a good fight, build each other up in Christ, and proclaim BOLDLY THE TRUTH FROM GOD'S WORD.

FayeC, I'll tell you simply and bluntly that you have been led astray. I will pray for you.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 18:46  The LORD liveth; and blessed be my rock; and let the God of my salvation be exalted.
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« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2004, 03:12:09 AM »

I think we are in a great falling away now .as hardly any one trusts in the LORD for anything .we trust the doctors ,lawyers ,friends .family ,police ,anyone but JESUS CHRIST .And our nation is spilt ,,between 2 partys ,with neither right .we are in a mess .involed in every nation on earth .our own in deep trouble . I really don"t see much hope for the world and our nation .I think if we go down as a righteous people ?which we are not now .Then evil will have its way on the earth .The rapture would cause this nation to fall in darkness .GOD had blessed this nation greatly .But now I think ,HE hates the evil we do .killing millions of little babys and teaching everything evil to our kids .everything on t.v. just about evil .even our so called christain programs . only the greatest of miracles can change us .But I fear it is too late .as I believe MY lORd is soon returning .I awoke a while ago ,with a song in my mind over and over I heard .people get ready ,the LORD will be coming soon .It may mean nothing .But it stayed in my mind over and over while asleep then while awake for a very long time .BUT you know the LORd said ?pray you are worthy to go .and for us too be looking for hIS coming .
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lean not to your own understanding ,the just live by faith ,you do not need to be taught of any man ,the HOLY  SPIRIT will teach you everything .We are NEW CREATURES IN CHRIST JESUS .NOT OF THIS WORLD .WE ARE AS OUR LORD .HE WILL RETURN SOON FOR HIS BRIDE .Rev 1:6  And hath made us kings and priests
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« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2004, 04:20:22 PM »

Brother Gary,

We can pray that God will give us the strength and guidance to stand up and keep fighting the good fight until the minute JESUS comes to take us home. It won't be easy. We will need God's help and the support of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

God is still winning souls, and God is still using us. We should give thanks for that and yield completely to what HE wants us to do.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Philippians 4:7  And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
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« Reply #36 on: December 16, 2004, 04:31:29 PM »

YES ,we have nothing too fear .HE will never leave or forsake us .And all things work for our GOOD .But I think the time is near and we should try to draw as near as we can to HIM .That we can bless others .At least plant seeds of TRUTH .Because they will grow even after we are gone .You know the LORD said ?our works do follow .Because many can be saved after and we will have a part in that !HE wants us to know ?HE will reward us .And i am sure !We will want that reward .because it will be everlasting .BLESS YOU BROTHER
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lean not to your own understanding ,the just live by faith ,you do not need to be taught of any man ,the HOLY  SPIRIT will teach you everything .We are NEW CREATURES IN CHRIST JESUS .NOT OF THIS WORLD .WE ARE AS OUR LORD .HE WILL RETURN SOON FOR HIS BRIDE .Rev 1:6  And hath made us kings and priests
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« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2005, 08:02:50 PM »

I think we are in a great falling away now .as hardly any one trusts in the LORD for anything .we trust the doctors ,lawyers ,friends .family ,police ,anyone but JESUS CHRIST .And our nation is spilt ,,between 2 partys ,with neither right .we are in a mess .involed in every nation on earth .our own in deep trouble . I really don"t see much hope for the world and our nation .I think if we go down as a righteous people ?which we are not now .Then evil will have its way on the earth .The rapture would cause this nation to fall in darkness .GOD had blessed this nation greatly .But now I think ,HE hates the evil we do .killing millions of little babys and teaching everything evil to our kids .everything on t.v. just about evil .even our so called christain programs . only the greatest of miracles can change us .But I fear it is too late .as I believe MY lORd is soon returning .I awoke a while ago ,with a song in my mind over and over I heard .people get ready ,the LORD will be coming soon .It may mean nothing .But it stayed in my mind over and over while asleep then while awake for a very long time .BUT you know the LORd said ?pray you are worthy to go .and for us too be looking for hIS coming .

And yet..... knowing all these things are true which you pointed out about our nation, gary, most Bible believing Christians will call one a false prophet if one suggests that America is end-time "Babylon".

And God forbit should one suggest that "the falling away"  commenced in America when we took away daily prayer from our nation's public schools.

And to suggest that "the taking away of those daily prayers"  is what Daniel was talking about when he spoke of "the taking away of the daily sacrifice", will get one branded a heretic.

Is it safe to say that America is worshipped by the Christians within her?  I believe so.

"And they worshipped the dragon (Babylon) which gave power unto the beast, and they worshipped the beast, saying........"  Rev.13:4

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« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2005, 12:52:46 AM »

Well FAYC .I really can not say about such things .Yes I do believe our nation is evil as a whole .Yet .God said HE will have mercy on those who bless the jewish nation .We still do that .
I know many say this nation is this and that .But until the LORD reveals this to me ?I will not judge .But personally .I see no place for us in the end times ?Of course we are somewhere ?Becuae people will be here .I think ? But we will not play a great role .Maybe we get nuked or maybe we repent .or maybe the church leaves and they start destorying each other here ?I really have no good idea .You would think ,We would be mentioned .But We MUST wait and see .if OUR LORD tarrys .I already see the great change from my childhood til now .and in one day .we could be the weakest nation on earth .And there are people who could and would humble us .It would be very easy .As our news casters tell them on t.v. where and what too do .So our nation is blind .They can not see the harm they are doing .
All I can say ?Is we must set our eyes on HIM .and never look away .Because HE alone is our HOPE .HERE, there or in the air .
You know HE is dealing with the jewish people .but not only them ?He is dealing with the whole world .His wrath is coming upon everry one still here .And many will repent .But most will not .This time coming .is a time NO PERSON will want to live .It is a evil fearful time .WORSE than ever before .I do not want to be here .But I am willing to follow my LORD ,right up to losing my head .I have given MY LIFE TO HIM .Whatever comes MY way .I will stand in FAITh .Trusting HIm with my very heart and soul .
But I do think ?We should do all in our power to draw near to HIm in these LAST days .We will need to be led by HIS HOLY SPIRIT .
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lean not to your own understanding ,the just live by faith ,you do not need to be taught of any man ,the HOLY  SPIRIT will teach you everything .We are NEW CREATURES IN CHRIST JESUS .NOT OF THIS WORLD .WE ARE AS OUR LORD .HE WILL RETURN SOON FOR HIS BRIDE .Rev 1:6  And hath made us kings and priests
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« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2005, 01:32:48 AM »

AMEN BROTHER GARY!!!

There are many disagreements about the end times of this age and dispensation of Grace, and those agreements or disagreements have nothing to do with Salvation except encouraging Christians to keep standing and sharing the GOOD NEWS.

I live in America, but I don't worship it. It isn't material at all to Salvation, but I would say with absolute certainty that America is NOT Babylon. However, I would say again this is not material to Salvation. The only thing material to Salvation is that the Christians of America and every other nation on earth keep standing and sharing the Gospel, regardless of how hard it gets. Christians in many parts of the earth are already being killed and hunted for owning a Bible, attending a worship service, or daring to mention the precious name of JESUS. In comparison to other countries, Christians in America have it easy and are soft and spoiled with the freedom to worship JESUS.

So, comparing America to other countries is still absolute nonsense, something with no Biblical basis of any kind. It actually appears that twisting and distorting Bible prophecy to support the absolute lie that America is Babylon does nothing but discourage Christians who are still standing and still fighting here, in much greater numbers than any other country in the world. As a nation, America is getting pretty sad, but the largest number of standing and fighting Christians are still here. The "falling away" tales and distortions used to discourage Christians by some DO NOT PERTAIN TO A SINGLE NATION!

I don't have a problem in being bold and blunt by saying the devil is working overtime to spread lies and other deceptions to discourage and shut up Christians all over the world. The degree of success by the devil's lies and deceptions are thousands of times more complete in countries OTHER THAN AMERICA! This does not suggest worship of America, but it does more than suggest that the largest remaining number of standing and fighting Christians are still in America.

Love In Christ,
Tom

I Corinthians 1:9  God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
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« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2005, 02:04:03 AM »

Quote
FayeC Said:

And yet..... knowing all these things are true which you pointed out about our nation, gary, most Bible believing Christians will call one a false prophet if one suggests that America is end-time "Babylon".

FayeC,

I would simply say that one suggesting this is totally ignorant of Bible prophecy and clueless. If the person suggesting this wasn't clueless and ignorant, I would question their agenda and what they hoped to accomplish with such a twisted and distorted lie. It certainly couldn't be for the edification and encouragement of Christians still standing and still trying to yield to the Will and Use of God.

UM??? - So what would it be? Could one take this a step further and say that Christians are doing the work of the devil? One could read between the lines and easily see it could be for the purpose of silencing Christians by confusing and discouraging them.

FayeC, I would simply ask you if you are trying to talk to America or the Christians in America? Which one? I will also tell you bluntly that you need to do a beginner's study on Bible prophecy before you try to teach it.

A recent post of your's that I deleted as being totally racist makes me wonder how easily you are sucked in to every deception and excuse for doctrine that comes down the pike.

Who is Jesus Christ to you?

What do you believe about Jesus Christ?

Love In Christ,
Tom

2nd Timothy 3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
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« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2005, 01:42:08 PM »

Quote
FayeC Said:

And yet..... knowing all these things are true which you pointed out about our nation, gary, most Bible believing Christians will call one a false prophet if one suggests that America is end-time "Babylon".

FayeC,

I would simply say that one suggesting this is totally ignorant of Bible prophecy and clueless. If the person suggesting this wasn't clueless and ignorant, I would question their agenda and what they hoped to accomplish with such a twisted and distorted lie. It certainly couldn't be for the edification and encouragement of Christians still standing and still trying to yield to the Will and Use of God.

UM??? - So what would it be? Could one take this a step further and say that Christians are doing the work of the devil? One could read between the lines and easily see it could be for the purpose of silencing Christians by confusing and discouraging them.

FayeC, I would simply ask you if you are trying to talk to America or the Christians in America? Which one? I will also tell you bluntly that you need to do a beginner's study on Bible prophecy before you try to teach it.

A recent post of your's that I deleted as being totally racist makes me wonder how easily you are sucked in to every deception and excuse for doctrine that comes down the pike.

Who is Jesus Christ to you?

What do you believe about Jesus Christ?

Love In Christ,
Tom

2nd Timothy 3:16  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

If I'm totally clueless and ignorant of Bible prophecy, then perhaps you could clue me in!......What nation is the "little horn" which came out of one of the 4 kingdoms upon the earth, and of which Daniel said?:

"Out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed ecceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the "pleasant land".
And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; (to Christians) and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them".  Dan.8:9-10

So.....which "exceeding great" nation is this, which stomps upon its Christian hosts?!



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« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2005, 01:43:43 PM »

I openly admitt that I am not as well learned in prophicy as I should like, I am only seventeen years old but reading some of the above posts I cannot help but relay to all of you something that has been sering in my mind the past few weeks.  It is not a perfect match for the convo but I think it is close enough that it will add to the discussion.
  I love history, specifically U.S. History and something I have learned is that the puritains have been arguably the biggest factors in our national identity.  The puritain Ideaolgy of self examination and expossing wrongs so that they may be corrected is still obvious in the american mindset.  I could alaberate more if it is so desired but for now I digress.
  The puritains left europe not to seperate from the body of Christ but move away from the corruption and set up an example in a virgin wilderness.  "A City on a Hill" they believed that if they came to this wilderness they could set up a perfect Christian sociaty that would undoughtedly prove to all nations what true Christians look like and thus be a witness and example to all.  
  the above is fact to the best of my knowledge here is where I step out on faith in what I believe to be devine revalation.  I believe that when Christians step in faith as ordered by God and verbalise what I believe to be a prophetic word that America will be a city on a hill it must come to pass because when God speaks it is as good as done, it comes into existence with his speach.  I believe that when the puritains came to america it was paralell to Abraham coming out of his land to go to a new land and create a new nation.  I believe that there is a prophetic statement made by our ancestors centuries ago that God will honor for their sakes even though it has been forgotten for generation.
  I understand that it is arguable that this has been fulfilled already but I think that it has not yet been fulfilled to it's potential, I would say that we have been a city on a hill politically and in other areana's through history but I believe that we have yet to become the whitness of true christian sociaty that was prophicied over this nation by our ancestors.
  I think that befor the end there will be an awekening of the church in America to an extent that noone has ever seen and I think that this is the generation that will complete it.  I believe that before the end this nation will become a spiritual lite to the world.
the scripture says that there will be 5 virgins tha are ready for his coming and 5 that are not, personally I don't see 5 virgins that have all the oil ( spirit ) that they need.  I do not believe that Christ will return for a sad devided and defeated bride but ofr a glorious bride that is in love with Him.  I believe that before the end ther will be revival that will start here in america and spread to the world a revival that will make the great awekening look small and weak.  It is not a matter, to me, of surviving to the time that I see Christ return but instead a time for a great offencive for prayer and reclaiming of the heritage that this nation has, the promise that is over it.  
This has been constantly on my mind and my writting probably can't justify the reality of what I am thinking but
I would love to hear you opinions as to weather I could be correct in my thinking.  please do not take offence at anything I say, assume I misspoke and ask me for I never intend to offend anyone.

God Bless all of You and
God Bless America

Elear2787
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« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2005, 01:51:11 PM »

God deals with Israel in the End Times. The city is Jerusalem...if you can't see this then you dis-regard both History and Prophecy faye...Here's my point. You can stand there and say that the city is not Jerusalem all you want, but the fact is, that is the place where Christ will set His foot back down on this earth. It would make no sense whatsoever, nor would it follow Scripture, that Christ would set foot in America before He set foot in Israel. Also It doesn't make sense, nor does it follow Scripture, that Christ will be anointed the Holy One in America. That is clearly talking about Jerusalem. Remember that Jesus is the King of the Jews. and they will crown Him king when He comes back and sets foot in Jerusalem! Makes sense considering His Throne will be set in Jerusalem, both old and New Jerusalem. also what is failed to be taken into account is this: The Holy One hasn't been anointed as King of Israel by the Nation of Israel yet, the 70th week has not begun because there has not been a covenant between the antichrist and the nations., there has not been an end put to transgression...Israel is still a desolate nation spiritually, and Iniquity still hasn't been put to an end because of the fact that there is still violence in Israel at the moment. So to sa y that this was fulfilled in 1962, isn't right.  Also, the abomination of Desolation is clearly seen to have been done in ISRAEL considering the Temple Mount and the New Temple will be located in Jerusalem.  Jesus said that when they saw the Abomination of Desolation that He told them to flee to the mountains of Judea. Now how in the world, are we going to flee to the mountains of judea after the judgements of God? what you've posted doesn't make sense and I don't see how it lines up with Scripture, faye. So sad...I will follow Timothy's lead and i wont bring this to contention. God Bless.

Joshua

Would you please pull up the quote in which I stated that Christ would set foot down in "America"?, and that He would be anointed in "America"?

I simply don't recall saying that, nor WOULD I say that.
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« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2005, 01:58:48 PM »

FayeC

If you could explain what you think that scripture prove it would be helpful because the hosts and the stars would clearly refer to angels not earthy things and in verse 11 it says,
"It even magnified itself to be equal with the Commander of the host; and it removed the regular sacrifice from him, and the place of his sanctuary was thrown down.  " daniel 8:11  
this is clearly refering to Lucifer's fall taking some of the stars or angels with him, he was the leader of worship in heaven before his fall, thus the removal of the sacrifice.  Satin stood against God the comander of the Hosts and grew in pride.  this is not an end time prophicy in my opinion and even if it where interprested that way the US is not to the N.W. of Isreal that would refer to the EU ( european union is directly north west of jerusalem so why would that refer to the US )

God bless you all richly and give you exceding wisdom and knowledge in all things
love through Christ


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