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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
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Author Topic: Why do we celebrate Christmas?  (Read 4841 times)
Pilgrim
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« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2004, 03:19:14 PM »

Rom 14:14  I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

There is nothing unclean of itself....   If you consider a Christmas tree or even Christmas as a whole as unclean then it is unclean to you. Do not partake in it.

Hello Mr. Roger,

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. You keep bringing Roman 14 up to justify pagan celebrations. Have you read the article on Romans 14 and Christmass that I linked to earlier? You can read the article at this address: http://members.aol.com/gregscv/garnett2.htm

If we continue with your reasoning one could claim that they can practice fornication because to them nothing is unclean in it. They can claim that it is just two people celebrating the gift of sex. They can use your reasoning that nothing is unclean of itself and you could not say a word against it without making yourself out to be a hypocrite. They could say if it is unclean to you then don’t practice it, but don’t judge us who see nothing wrong with sharing love.

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Rom 14:19  Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20  For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

A tree does not destroy the work of God. It is theevil purpose in man's heart.

What is the purpose in your heart?
Why are you celebrating?
Is it for selfish worldly reasons?
Is it simply for the sake of tradition?
Do you do these things out of love for Jesus and for your brothers, sisters, neighbors, family?
Does it really matter if there is a tree and tinsel, if there is what is the purpose you place in them?

Where does God give you the right to create your own worship? Where does He say it is okay to join the world that hates Him in celebrating the birth of a god? If God said not to copy the worship of the pagans then don't do it. It is a matter of sin, not of Christian liberty.

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Do we tell our brothers that something they are doing is wrong so that we can esteem ourselves more righteous or that we have a better understanding of Gods Word?

No we tell them that what they are doing is wrong so that they may repent and serve God rather than the evil one. We tell them because it is showing Christian love to lead them away from the things of darkness to the truth of God.

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Is it so that we can put a stumblingblock in their way?

Is it so that we can say we took the thorn out of their eye?

What is in your heart?

To serve God and help my brothers and sister to know the truth. To help them from being trapped in the snares of Satan.

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Jos 24:15 ............but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

How can you serve the Lord by going against His commands to not learn the way of the pagans? How can you serve the Lord by offering Him warmed over pagan worship dress with a veneer of Christianity?

Deu 12:29  "When the LORD thy God shall cut off the nations from before thee, whither thou goest to possess them, and thou succeedest them, and dwellest in their land; 30  Take heed to thyself that thou be not snared by following them, after that they be destroyed from before thee; and that thou enquire not after their gods, saying, How did these nations serve their gods? even so will I do likewise. 31  Thou shalt not do so unto the LORD thy God: for every abomination to the LORD, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods. 32  What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it."

God bless
Pilgrim
« Last Edit: December 09, 2004, 03:20:44 PM by Pilgrim » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2004, 04:51:40 PM »

Pilgrim,

Seeing as this is not the debate thread I do not wish to debate over this. So I will say one more thing and I will drop it here.

As with most people things are taken from the Bible to mean what they perceive in it, to serve their purposes. Just as you have taken my words for your agenda. I am NOT abdicating the use of Christmas trees or of any of the traditional Christmas celebrations. I see no purpose in using such things myself.

I am saying that it is what you do with these things and with your heart that make them a sin or not. Just as the example that you gave on sex. Sex in itself is not a sin until a person practices it in a sinful manner or a sinful thought in their hearts. This is exactly what Romans 14:14 is telling us. Nothing is unclean of itself, it is what man does with it that makes it a sin.

The questions I gave were rhetorical. Thought provoking in nature. Meant for Christians to search their hearts and the scriptures for the truth and for the reasons that they do anything.

1Co 10:31  Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
1Co 10:32  Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
1Co 10:33  Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

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« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2004, 05:19:41 PM »

Pilgrim you should see the REALLY, REALLY "BIG" CHRIST-mas Tree we have. ONLY 16 more Days.

Merry CHRIST-mas Pilgrim
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Pilgrim
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« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2004, 10:09:50 PM »

Pilgrim,

Seeing as this is not the debate thread I do not wish to debate over this. So I will say one more thing and I will drop it here.

As with most people things are taken from the Bible to mean what they perceive in it, to serve their purposes. Just as you have taken my words for your agenda. I am NOT abdicating the use of Christmas trees or of any of the traditional Christmas celebrations. I see no purpose in using such things myself.

I am saying that it is what you do with these things and with your heart that make them a sin or not. Just as the example that you gave on sex. Sex in itself is not a sin until a person practices it in a sinful manner or a sinful thought in their hearts. This is exactly what Romans 14:14 is telling us. Nothing is unclean of itself, it is what man does with it that makes it a sin.


Hello Mr. Roger,

You rightly discern fornication. Sex is not wrong in and of itself, it is sex outside of marriage that is sin.

Heb 13:4 “Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.”

Now you just need to apply the same principles to worship. Worship of God is correct when done according to the will of God, but worship outside the will of God is spiritual fornication which is sin.

Jesus said that God is spirit and that He must be worshiped in Spirit and truth. Spirit and truth are the conditions God demands for true worship, if one’s worship does not meet this criteria then God will not accept it and it is sin. The term “christmas” itself is a lie. The christ of the mass is a false christ. To wish someone a “merry christmas” is using God’s name in vain. God commands us to speak to one another in truth and not to lie to one another. This cannot be done by embracing the false christ of the mass.

Pilgrim
« Last Edit: December 10, 2004, 03:36:40 AM by Pilgrim » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2004, 03:31:54 AM »

15 DAYS AND COUNTING
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« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2004, 02:27:28 PM »

To all who have responded I pray that our Lord and savior Jesus will bless each and every one of you.

I would fist like to apologize to all of you.  I was simply looking for some understanding to something I believe the Lord has placed on my heart.  I am relatively new in my walk with the Lord and sometimes have difficulty discerning whether what I think and feel are from the Lord or from me.  This is what prompts me to seek the truth in Gods word and why I created this topic.  My original post simply stated some of the things I found out and posed some questions I have about the topic.  It was never my intention to cause a division.

That being said I am amazed at the lack of love and understanding from a group of Christians.  Shortly after creating this post I was saddened by some of the responses.  So much so I deleted my account with this forum.  For some reason I was drawn back and saw the posts by Pilgrim.  

I thank Pilgrim for his conviction and willingness to share what is an unpopular view.  The posts from Brother Love once again saddened me.  It appeared to me all he was interested was causing dissention and did little to add to the topic.  I don’t believe this was the intention from Brother Love but that is how I took it.  

I then saw posts from 2nd Timothy, AJ and Pastor Roger.  I would like to thank all of you for your thoughtful responses and references to relevant verses from the word of God in support of celebrating Christmas.  

I was however saddened that the responses to Pilgrim appeared to attack instead of just presenting your views.  I can understand as some of Pilgrims convictions and statements may come across as somewhat harsh and in your face.  I don’t believe Pilgrim or anyone else intended to offend but that is the way I believe it came across.  I believe the questions Pilgrim posed were simply raised to provoke thought and get people to search for the truth themselves.  At this point both sides have become defensive of there position and I personally see very little of God’s love in this.  

There is some good that has come out of this for me though.  I now know I must seek these answers directly from God and not man.  I will continue to pray and ask God for his wisdom in this matter.

This post is not meant to offend or criticize any one individual or belief.  If I have done that I apologize as that was not my intention.

Again I thank all of you and pray the Lord will bless each and every one of you.

Love your God with all your heart
Love your neighbor as yourself.

Norm

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I am the originator of this topic and I request you close it as I can see no further good that can come of it.  Thank you.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2004, 04:49:25 PM by NRoof » Logged
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« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2004, 05:00:24 PM »

GOOOOODNITEGERTY!!![/b]  Would you listen to yourselves?  Is this not what Paul spoke about when he said...

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Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Colossians 2:6

You're free in Christ!  If you want to celebrate His birth on Christmas, go ahead!  If you want to celebrate Mishiwakawamimama or whoever, then you got a problem.  Manohman.  Some people could find a rat turd in Aunt Bee's blackberry cobbler...

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!![/b]
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« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2004, 05:05:17 PM »


Moderators

I am the originator of this topic and I request you close it as I can see no further good that can come of it.  Thank you.
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« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2004, 04:13:29 PM »

Brothers and Sisters,

It does appear this this topic has hurt some feelings and caused needless division.

The LORD I serve is Almighty God, and all days belong to HIM, including Christmas. I will celebrate Christmas and New Year's Day by having a wonderful time in the LORD with Christian friends and family, both at home and at church.

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Colossians 1:12-14  Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
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