Prophecy and End Time Series. - Israel

[Shammu]

Faruq Qaddumi: At this stage there will be two states. Many years from now there will be only one.

Wonder if he knows just how true that statement really is?  

[scarsm]I don't think sooooooo.[/scarsm]

[Evangelist]

Ezek. 38 & 39 make reference to the invasion of Israel by "Gog".  Much has been said here, and other places, about the correlation between Gog and Russia, based primarily on references to Gog coming out of the north, but occasionally because of the word "rosh" in the Hebrew. Considering also the recent events involving Iran, I think it good to look at a couple of things.

The people referred to as those of the land of Magog were the ancient Sycthians. In the time of Ezekiel they lived in an area which was north of Israel, between the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea with the Caucasus Mountain Range as their southern border. Gog of Magog is the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. Both Meshech and Tubal, along with Magog are listed in Gen. 10:2 as sons of Japheth, a son of Noah. The ark landed on Mount Ararat in the Caucasus Mountains. These three grandsons of Noah settled north on the mountains in the southeastern region of the former Soviet Union. The basic area now known as eastern Turkey, Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan, and only incidentally includes a very minor portion at the far southern reaches of Russia.

Gog's forces will be augmented by other armies, among them Persia, Cush, and Put . Coming against Israel from the east will be Persia. Persia changed it's name in 1935. It is now known as Iran. Cush and Put will attack Israel from the south. Cush is located to the south of Egypt and is today the eastern part of the Sudan and Ethiopia. Put is to the west of Egypt in the region of Libya (Ezek 38:5). Both are descendants of Noah through Ham (Gen. 10:6). Also allied with Gog in his invasion will be Gomer and Togarmah. These Japhethite grandsons of Noah settled in Asia Minor;Gomer in Germany and central Turkey, and Togarmah in eastern Turkey and Armenia.

It  is highly unlikely that Russia itself is Magog (Gog), but is instead a collection of countries that today are predominately Islamic, which would have a great deal to do with their spiritual attitude towards Israel. OTOH, Russia is predominately secular/Orthodox.

[nChrist]

Evangelist,

Fascinating!! Thanks Brother!!

I really enjoy your writing and Bible studies, so I'm very happy that you are participating in this thread. Brother, you've given me many beautiful things to study, both here and your web site.

Love In Christ,
Tom

I Timothy 4:6  If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

[2nd Timothy]

Absolutely Evangelist.  Sorry none of us were clearer on that.  Ezekiel gives pretty good details of Gog and Magog along with her allies.   I think they would be as follows....

Persia = Iran
Cush = Ethiopia
Phut (or Put) = Libya
Gomer = the Cimmerians / Germany
Togarmah = Turkic Tribes / Armenia
Meshech & Tubal = ancient Anatolia / Turkey

Also mentioned in Eze 38 is SHEBA and DEDAN, which would now be considered Saudi Arabia.

Eze 38:3  And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
Eze 38:4  And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
Eze 38:5  Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
Eze 38:6  Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.
and

Eze 38:13  Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?


Gog and magog in itself is really a whole study in itself.   There is much confusion as to when it takes place.  Some believe it happens at the beginning of Tribulation, others believe it happens after the 1000 year peace because Gog is mentioned yet again. in Rev 20 I believe.   Some believe this war is actually armageddon, but I disagree with that.

Either way its a facinating study.   Sorry I was not clearer on my views of who Gog was....I think gerneral consinsus is that Russia is a major player, with many allies in the war.

Grace and Peace!

[2nd Timothy]

Oh, I forgot to add...that this war which has not taken place yet, is excellent evidence that Israel did indeed have to become a nation again.   These armies are coming to Israel, Gods land to fight.    

38:8[...]in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations,


Not possible until 1948      

Grace and Peace!

[Shammu]

Austrialia Attacks Against Jews Increasing

Sun Dec 5, 1:18 AM ET
   
SYDNEY, Australia - Attacks against Jews have increased in Australia, a report by a major Jewish organization released Sunday showed.

The Executive Council of Australian Jewry, the elected body representing Australian Jews, said in its annual report on anti-Semitism in Australia that physical assaults, property damage and face-to-face harassment for the year ending in September was 50 percent higher than the average for the previous 14 years.

"The worst of these incidents included the smashing of windows at synagogues, eggs thrown at Jewish people on their way to or from religious ceremonies and a firecracker thrown at the door of the home of an Orthodox Jew after a person called out 'Let's get the Rabbi,'" the report said.

In the last year, the council received 455 reports of violence and harassment against Jews — the third consecutive year in which the number of reports rose above 450.

The report said harassment not involving violence was up 81 percent above the average for all years since 1989, when the council began compiling figures.

The report also said anti-Semitic graffiti was up 30 percent.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20041205/ap_on_re_au_an/australia_jews

Rather then start a new thread, I posted this here. As it some what fits in........

Resting in the Lord's arms.
Bob

[Shammu]

Hamas Rejects Cease-fire with Israel
Sun Dec 5, 2004 08:40 AM ET
   
By Nidal al-Mughrabi

GAZA (Reuters) - Hamas ruled out any truce with Israel Sunday and repeated its desire to destroy the Jewish state, rejecting what had appeared to be more conciliatory comments by one of the Islamic militant group's leaders.

"There is no talk about a truce now at all," Mahmoud Al-Zahar, a top Hamas leader, told reporters.

"Our strategy is to liberate all Palestinian soil," Zahar said, referring to the West Bank, Gaza and Israel.

Hassan Youssef, the top Hamas official in the West Bank, said Friday the group could accept creation of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza and a long-term truce with Israel, signaling a possible new overture to end hostilities.

Palestine Liberation Organization leader Mahmoud Abbas has been trying to persuade militant groups to halt attacks against Israel to smooth the path of a presidential election on Jan. 9 to succeed Yasser Arafat, who died last month.

Hamas has killed hundreds of Israelis in suicide bombings and attacks. Palestinian officials are worried further assaults could provoke Israeli retaliation and disrupt the presidential election, the first since 1996.

Zahar said that although Hamas would boycott the presidential vote, it would consider taking part in the Palestinian legislative election, scheduled for the spring.

"Our will to participate in the election is a national demand after the longstanding system of corruption affected the national goal, the internal integrity of the Palestinian people," Zahar said.

In 1996, Hamas boycotted presidential and legislative elections, citing its opposition to interim Israeli-Palestinian peace accords.

Hamas expressed interest in joining the Fatah-controlled Palestinian government after Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon unveiled his plan to withdraw from Gaza in 2005. Zahar said the group had already begun talks with Fatah over Gaza's future.

Israel, fearing a militant takeover of the territory after the pullout, had pushed for Egypt to train Palestinian security officers to maintain control of it.

Hamas and other militant groups have grown in popularity, especially in Gaza, since the start of the uprising against Israel in September 2000.

Zahar, who survived an Israeli assassination attempt last year, said Abbas would meet Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal in Syria. Abbas is due in Damascus later in the day to meet President Bashar al-Assad.

© Reuters 2004. All Rights Reserved.
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=6996536

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

There appears to be some common denominators in many of the posts and articles: The world hates Israel, and the world hates America for supporting Israel.

George Bush didn't start the world hating America. That was started and grew in the 50s and 60s. However, the hatred did intensify recently with the global war against terrorism. The hatred also increased with the statements of faith by George Bush. We should all know that the world is not happy to hear anything about God or Jesus.

Tell me if you think that I'm mistaken, there also appears to be a growing isolation of Israel and the US. It appears to be many years of hard and careful work by many around the world, long before George Bush took office. He's just a convenient scapegoat, especially because of his faith in Jesus.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Proverbs 16:3  Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.

[Evangelist]

Tom....I agree.

Also, keep a sharp eye out for a sudden escalation in "end-time" events.
As of today, Hamas has said it will accept the right of Jews for their own state, and Egypt has suddenly thawed out its relations with Israel.

A lot of the players are moving into the sphere of politics that will cause many in Israel to say "peace-peace", when there is none. This is the kind of thing (imo) that will end up with Israel having their guard down just a little, and suddenly the nations will rise up against them....and when that happens........

Time to fly!!

[xaoz]

i also agree.  we know we are doing something 'right' if we are persecuted.  the devil leaves us alone if we're doing nothing against him.  praise the Lord for our president!  
i don't believe there is any prophecy left to be fulfilled that would keep Jesus from returning for his church. only the grace that hopes yet another would be saved.   i believe it was on this site that i read info regarding the EU Supreme Foreign Minister Javier Solana?  hmmm.  an elderly pastor we used to have also thought that the old european dynasty of the Hapsburgs would possibly have something to do with the 'end of days'.  anyone heard things of this nature recently?

[Shammu]

Hamas Deputy Vows Continuing Resistance
Dec 5, 7:14 PM (ET)
By ALBERT AJI

(AP) Mousa Abu Marzouk, a leader of the Palestinian militant Islamic Hamas group, in an interview with...

CHTOURA, Lebanon (AP) - A senior Hamas official expressed hope Sunday that the United States and European Union would be "fairer" in mediating the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, but he said his group would continue its resistance even if a Palestinian state was established.

Moussa Abu Marzouk, deputy head of Hamas' political bureau, told The Associated Press a Palestinian state was a right "stipulated by all international accords" but was not a reason for Hamas to stop its resistance.

"There are other rights for the Palestinian people that cannot be forgotten or be conceded," Abu Marzouk said without elaborating.

Hamas refuses to accept Israel's right to exist, and it rejected late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's peace accords with the Jewish state.

Abu Marzouk said comments Friday by Sheik Hassan Yousef, Hamas' top leader in the West Bank, did not amount to a truce with Israel.

Yousef told the AP he sees a long-term truce in which Israel and a Palestinian state "live side-by-side in peace and security for a certain period."

In the past, Hamas has said it would accept a Palestinian state in the pre-1967 borders as a first step to taking over Israel.

The militant group, regarded by the United States as a terrorist movement and responsible for multiple suicide attacks killing scores of Israelis, is one of numerous militant factions Palestinian leaders want brought on board in the post-Arafat era to push efforts to achieve Palestinian statehood.

Abu Marzouk, speaking to the AP in Chtoura, near the Syrian border, on his way back home to the Syrian capital of Damascus, said he hoped the United States would adopt a more fair policy toward the Palestinians following Arafat's death last month.

"The U.S. is a superpower and a very influential factor in the region," he said. "We hope it will be fairer to the Palestinian people than ever before. We hope it will listen to the oppressed Palestinian people at this stage."

Abu Marzouk also said the EU should play a bigger role in mediating the Israeli-Palestinian conflict "provided that the European visions would be independent from those of America."

Abu Marzouk confirmed that interim Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, who is scheduled to visit Damascus on Monday, had asked to meet with Hamas leaders, but he said no date had been set.

Abu Marzouk said Hamas had differences with Abbas over the Palestinian presidential elections set for Jan. 9. The group declared it would boycott the vote, and Abu Marzouk said Hamas would not participate in any future Palestinian government.

"We demanded that a timetable and schedule be set for municipal and legislative elections as well in order for the elections to be more disciplined and for the Palestinian people's will not to be falsified," Abu Marzouk said.

He accused the PLO's mainstream Fatah movement of "trying to grab power" through the elections.

"We think this is not an appropriate behavior for the upcoming stage. That's why we will boycott the elections," he said.

He said there were disagreements with Abbas over his vision and policy, "and we think that he must listen to the Palestinians' pulse and to all Palestinian factions."

"We want the leadership to express the aspirations and ambitions of the Palestinian people and their uprising and resistance to Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands," Abu Marzouk said.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041206/D86PQ90G0.html

[Symphony]

Brothers and Sisters,

There appears to be some common denominators in many of the posts and articles: The world hates Israel, and the world hates America for supporting Israel.

George Bush didn't start the world hating America. That was started and grew in the 50s and 60s. However, the hatred did intensify recently with the global war against terrorism. The hatred also increased with the statements of faith by George Bush. We should all know that the world is not happy to hear anything about God or Jesus.

Tell me if you think that I'm mistaken, there also appears to be a growing isolation of Israel and the US. It appears to be many years of hard and careful work by many around the world, long before George Bush took office. He's just a convenient scapegoat, especially because of his faith in Jesus.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Proverbs 16:3  Commit thy works unto the LORD, and thy thoughts shall be established.

   

[2nd Timothy]

Hamas Deputy Vows Continuing Resistance
Dec 5, 7:14 PM (ET)
By ALBERT AJI

(AP) Mousa Abu Marzouk, a leader of the Palestinian militant Islamic Hamas group, in an interview with...

CHTOURA, Lebanon (AP) - A senior Hamas official expressed hope Sunday that the United States and European Union would be "fairer" in mediating the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, but he said his group would continue its resistance even if a Palestinian state was established.

Moussa Abu Marzouk, deputy head of Hamas' political bureau, told The Associated Press a Palestinian state was a right "stipulated by all international accords" but was not a reason for Hamas to stop its resistance.

"There are other rights for the Palestinian people that cannot be forgotten or be conceded," Abu Marzouk said without elaborating.

Hamas refuses to accept Israel's right to exist, and it rejected late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's peace accords with the Jewish state.

Abu Marzouk said comments Friday by Sheik Hassan Yousef, Hamas' top leader in the West Bank, did not amount to a truce with Israel.

Yousef told the AP he sees a long-term truce in which Israel and a Palestinian state "live side-by-side in peace and security for a certain period."

In the past, Hamas has said it would accept a Palestinian state in the pre-1967 borders as a first step to taking over Israel.

The militant group, regarded by the United States as a terrorist movement and responsible for multiple suicide attacks killing scores of Israelis, is one of numerous militant factions Palestinian leaders want brought on board in the post-Arafat era to push efforts to achieve Palestinian statehood.

Abu Marzouk, speaking to the AP in Chtoura, near the Syrian border, on his way back home to the Syrian capital of Damascus, said he hoped the United States would adopt a more fair policy toward the Palestinians following Arafat's death last month.

"The U.S. is a superpower and a very influential factor in the region," he said. "We hope it will be fairer to the Palestinian people than ever before. We hope it will listen to the oppressed Palestinian people at this stage."

Abu Marzouk also said the EU should play a bigger role in mediating the Israeli-Palestinian conflict "provided that the European visions would be independent from those of America."

Abu Marzouk confirmed that interim Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, who is scheduled to visit Damascus on Monday, had asked to meet with Hamas leaders, but he said no date had been set.

Abu Marzouk said Hamas had differences with Abbas over the Palestinian presidential elections set for Jan. 9. The group declared it would boycott the vote, and Abu Marzouk said Hamas would not participate in any future Palestinian government.

"We demanded that a timetable and schedule be set for municipal and legislative elections as well in order for the elections to be more disciplined and for the Palestinian people's will not to be falsified," Abu Marzouk said.

He accused the PLO's mainstream Fatah movement of "trying to grab power" through the elections.

"We think this is not an appropriate behavior for the upcoming stage. That's why we will boycott the elections," he said.

He said there were disagreements with Abbas over his vision and policy, "and we think that he must listen to the Palestinians' pulse and to all Palestinian factions."

"We want the leadership to express the aspirations and ambitions of the Palestinian people and their uprising and resistance to Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands," Abu Marzouk said.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041206/D86PQ90G0.html

I am seeing conflicting reports about this DW.  I'm not sure which story to believe.   It seems likely that Hamas is broken up into factions, and only the hard core factions are insisting on resistance?   Syria as well as Egypt appear to be making peace overtures to Israel....(although I don't trust them)  To me it seem obvious none of them want Israel to exist, but the different groups are of seperate minds as to how they will fulfill their ultimate goal of destroying Israel.   By false peace, or bitter resistance?   I think from scripture we know who which factions will wind up falling in line with the AC.   Those who pretend to want peace.  

Like Tom says, America and Israel are becoming obsticles for the rest of the worlds agenda.   I look for the EU to continue its crusade of uniting as many nations as it can via the European neighborhood policy in an attempt to isolate both Israel and America.   In the mean time, I don't expect any lasting peace deals to be brokered between these nations.   That IMO would undercut the problems the AC would need to implement his peace deal (which might even be the ENP...who knows?).   They will try and try, but eventually the AC will come on the scene to rescue all their failings.  While I have an idea, I'm still not sure who that man is, but I think he's alive and watching current events just like we are today, awaiting his time.   Like Evangelists says, all these manueverings are just fine tunings.   This last wave has been a doozy of a wave.   The next wave should be closer and more intense.

Grace and Peace!

[Shammu]

Hamas Deputy Vows Continuing Resistance
Dec 5, 7:14 PM (ET)
By ALBERT AJI

(AP) Mousa Abu Marzouk, a leader of the Palestinian militant Islamic Hamas group, in an interview with...

CHTOURA, Lebanon (AP) - A senior Hamas official expressed hope Sunday that the United States and European Union would be "fairer" in mediating the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, but he said his group would continue its resistance even if a Palestinian state was established.

Moussa Abu Marzouk, deputy head of Hamas' political bureau, told The Associated Press a Palestinian state was a right "stipulated by all international accords" but was not a reason for Hamas to stop its resistance.

"There are other rights for the Palestinian people that cannot be forgotten or be conceded," Abu Marzouk said without elaborating.

Hamas refuses to accept Israel's right to exist, and it rejected late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's peace accords with the Jewish state.

Abu Marzouk said comments Friday by Sheik Hassan Yousef, Hamas' top leader in the West Bank, did not amount to a truce with Israel.

Yousef told the AP he sees a long-term truce in which Israel and a Palestinian state "live side-by-side in peace and security for a certain period."

In the past, Hamas has said it would accept a Palestinian state in the pre-1967 borders as a first step to taking over Israel.

The militant group, regarded by the United States as a terrorist movement and responsible for multiple suicide attacks killing scores of Israelis, is one of numerous militant factions Palestinian leaders want brought on board in the post-Arafat era to push efforts to achieve Palestinian statehood.

Abu Marzouk, speaking to the AP in Chtoura, near the Syrian border, on his way back home to the Syrian capital of Damascus, said he hoped the United States would adopt a more fair policy toward the Palestinians following Arafat's death last month.

"The U.S. is a superpower and a very influential factor in the region," he said. "We hope it will be fairer to the Palestinian people than ever before. We hope it will listen to the oppressed Palestinian people at this stage."

Abu Marzouk also said the EU should play a bigger role in mediating the Israeli-Palestinian conflict "provided that the European visions would be independent from those of America."

Abu Marzouk confirmed that interim Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, who is scheduled to visit Damascus on Monday, had asked to meet with Hamas leaders, but he said no date had been set.

Abu Marzouk said Hamas had differences with Abbas over the Palestinian presidential elections set for Jan. 9. The group declared it would boycott the vote, and Abu Marzouk said Hamas would not participate in any future Palestinian government.

"We demanded that a timetable and schedule be set for municipal and legislative elections as well in order for the elections to be more disciplined and for the Palestinian people's will not to be falsified," Abu Marzouk said.

He accused the PLO's mainstream Fatah movement of "trying to grab power" through the elections.

"We think this is not an appropriate behavior for the upcoming stage. That's why we will boycott the elections," he said.

He said there were disagreements with Abbas over his vision and policy, "and we think that he must listen to the Palestinians' pulse and to all Palestinian factions."

"We want the leadership to express the aspirations and ambitions of the Palestinian people and their uprising and resistance to Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands," Abu Marzouk said.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041206/D86PQ90G0.html

I am seeing conflicting reports about this DW.  I'm not sure which story to believe.   It seems likely that Hamas is broken up into factions, and only the hard core factions are insisting on resistance?   Syria as well as Egypt appear to be making peace overtures to Israel....(although I don't trust them)  To me it seem obvious none of them want Israel to exist, but the different groups are of seperate minds as to how they will fulfill their ultimate goal of destroying Israel.   By false peace, or bitter resistance?   I think from scripture we know who which factions will wind up falling in line with the AC.   Those who pretend to want peace.  

Like Tom says, America and Israel are becoming obsticles for the rest of the worlds agenda.   I look for the EU to continue its crusade of uniting as many nations as it can via the European neighborhood policy in an attempt to isolate both Israel and America.   In the mean time, I don't expect any lasting peace deals to be brokered between these nations.   That IMO would undercut the problems the AC would need to implement his peace deal (which might even be the ENP...who knows?).   They will try and try, but eventually the AC will come on the scene to rescue all their failings.  While I have an idea, I'm still not sure who that man is, but I think he's alive and watching current events just like we are today, awaiting his time.   Like Evangelists says, all these manueverings are just fine tunings.   This last wave has been a doozy of a wave.   The next wave should be closer and more intense.

Grace and Peace!

I believe that Hamas is splintering into groups, 2T. I wouldn't trust Syria, to a lesser degree Egypt. I know that Egypt will attack Israel again though.

The EU, now that a team worth watching. I wouldn't trust them at all. I would imagine that they are behind, some of the hate we are seeing. This last wave has been a doozy okay. The next bunch should be closer, more intense and one we should keep an eye on!

Get ready to fly..................... when that happens, I would imagine.

Resting in the Lord's arms.
Bob

[2nd Timothy]

Egypt heralds Mideast peace 'breakthrough'

CAIRO (AFP) - Egypt raised the prospect of a framework for a Middle East peace deal and said it could soon return an ambassador to Israel, a move that would revive full diplomatic ties after a four-year break.


Quoting "high-level" Egyptian sources, state news agency MENA said key players in the search for peace have reached understanding on a plan that could lead to a comprehensive settlement.


"An important understanding that could constitute an agreement in principle has been reached by Egypt, Israel, the Palestinians and the significant international parties -- the United States and the European Union (news - web sites) -- on a comprehensive solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict," MENA said.

entire story here @ yahoo

This seems more relevant to Egypt/Israel if I understand it right.   However, it still brings us one step closer to the covenant with many.

Grace and Peace!