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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
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| | |-+  Why don't we call for the president to stop killing IRAQI babies?
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Author Topic: Why don't we call for the president to stop killing IRAQI babies?  (Read 61296 times)
Brother Love
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« Reply #30 on: November 09, 2004, 12:47:31 PM »

Saddam and the insurgents are sworn enemies of the Jews.
The Bible is clear as to how God deals with these peoples.

 Bronzesnake
 

Bronzsnake:

You are ABSOLUTELY right.  We are told that GOD is will deal with the enemies of the Jews.  So why aren't you calling on President Bush to leave the Iraqi people alone so that GOD may deal with them and not the United States Army?  

The United States Army is not an army of God, they are not a Christian Army.  That army is not sworn to uphold the laws of God or the bible, or fight for the laws of God or the bible.  They are not sworn to defend the jews.  They are not sworn to defend the holy land in Israel.  They are sworn to defend the United States of America.

Why do you not tell the President to get the American troops out of Iraq and let "GOD deal with these peoples?"

 Cry

GOD INVITES YOU TO TRUST HIS SON AND BE SAVED!

Don’t Delay – No Time to Lose!

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You are privileged to live in a dispensation where God is administering His grace! Accept His free offer by faith (in His Son) today. After you leave this life it will be too late.
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« Reply #31 on: November 09, 2004, 01:07:05 PM »

Next we will hear how much good Saddam's boys have done, and that they were the best thing since the Boy Scouts, and that the Muslim Extremists are not really Muslim. Lips Sealed

Don't these folks realize that they are either directly or indirectly supporting the likes of Saddam and Al Queda with these antics?
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« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2004, 01:18:40 PM »

There are two things that I see happening. The first is that at least 90% of the world has rejected Christ and has therefore placed themselves directly under the laws of the Old Testament.
The second is that many have forgotten that God has used nations many times to deal with other nations. How many times did He use them to deal with Israel? I also don't think that He is finished dealing with America. We still have abortion on demand going on. We still have homosexual groups pushing their agenda on America. And we still have groups like the ACLU pushing the anti-god agenda. All it takes is for the Christian community to lay down and do nothing. Why do you think that God uses Christians that are willing to speak out against such things. We are setting here debating the issues of right and wrong and often times turning our backs on the things that are going on and pretending that they are not happening. How many of us would stand on a railroad track with a train coming right at us thinking that all we have to do is close our eyes and all will be ok?
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Shylynne
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« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2004, 01:41:28 PM »

Jesus said: Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. 1Jo 3:15
Murder is a condition of the heart. A man or woman fighting as a soldier, or accidently killing someone are not murdering,  unless there is hatred in the heart.
Can you say there is no one you hate?
The condition of our hearts is what will matter to God.
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« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2004, 01:46:05 PM »

As a general point, I absolurely reject the notion that people who speak out against the war in Iraq are somehow supporting Al-Queda.  This is the kind of easy to understand political pablum that the Bush campaign was so eager to sling at any opponent.  Simply call them unpatriotic, in a hyper-sensitive time, and everyone will condem them.  Its simple-minded to a disgusting degree.  Furthermore, to even imply that God is working through the U.S. military in order to deal with an enemy of Israel is nauseating.  In order to beleive that, one would have to close one's eyes to every action and motive of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Pearle and Wolfowitz; Ignore the fact that the initial reason for going to war was an absolute lie, and finaly, somehow come to the conclusion that God thought he could use a little more oil.  Using the Bble to justify one's warring ways is a perfect example of how easy it has become to use the holy scripture when it is convenient to do so, and tailor it a little if need be.  To beleive that W. is acting with the will of God, is to live in a sick delusion.  It is the same sort of delusion that has justified thousands of evil actions over the centuries, by many world religions.  Killing another human being while wearing a cross around your neck, or proclaiming that it is in the name of God, or for the protection of Israel does not make it God's work.  If God is to judge us all, I'm comfortable with the positions I've taken.
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« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2004, 01:50:22 PM »

As a general point, I absolurely reject the notion that people who speak out against the war in Iraq are somehow supporting Al-Queda.  This is the kind of easy to understand political pablum that the Bush campaign was so eager to sling at any opponent.  Simply call them unpatriotic, in a hyper-sensitive time, and everyone will condem them.  Its simple-minded to a disgusting degree.  Furthermore, to even imply that God is working through the U.S. military in order to deal with an enemy of Israel is nauseating.  In order to beleive that, one would have to close one's eyes to every action and motive of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Pearle and Wolfowitz; Ignore the fact that the initial reason for going to war was an absolute lie, and finaly, somehow come to the conclusion that God thought he could use a little more oil.  Using the Bble to justify one's warring ways is a perfect example of how easy it has become to use the holy scripture when it is convenient to do so, and tailor it a little if need be.  To beleive that W. is acting with the will of God, is to live in a sick delusion.  It is the same sort of delusion that has justified thousands of evil actions over the centuries, by many world religions.  Killing another human being while wearing a cross around your neck, or proclaiming that it is in the name of God, or for the protection of Israel does not make it God's work.  If God is to judge us all, I'm comfortable with the positions I've taken.

**THANK YOU**!!!!!!
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« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2004, 01:54:01 PM »

Jesus said: Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. 1Jo 3:15
Murder is a condition of the heart. A man or woman fighting as a soldier, or accidently killing someone are not murdering,  unless there is hatred in the heart.
Can you say there is no one you hate?
The condition of our hearts is what will matter to God.

Can you honestly tell me that there aren't soldiers fighting in Iraq who don't have hate for the enemy in THEIR heart?

Quit trying to turn this into something it's not.  This about how OFTEN I've read people here condemn the killing of American babies but NOT condemn the killing of foreign babies.  A weak Christian cannot apply their beliefs equally across the world, but instead rely on the rhetorical trickery of Satan to weasle their way out of their condoning of evil.
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« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2004, 03:07:29 PM »

 Let's all slow down before heads start to pop off.

 
Quote
Furthermore, to even imply that God is working through the U.S. military in order to deal with an enemy of Israel is nauseating.  In order to beleive that, one would have to close one's eyes to every action and motive of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Pearle and Wolfowitz;

 First of all Thomas, I never said America was "God's army"

If you read your Bible Thomas, you will see that God uses nations (Godless and God fearing) to fulfill His will. Babylon conquered Israel and took the Jews into captivity - does that mean Babylon was God's army? Likewise for the Egyptians, Assyrians etc.

 
Quote
Ignore the fact that the initial reason for going to war was an absolute lie, and finaly, somehow come to the conclusion that God thought he could use a little more oil.


 So, you have irrefutable proof that there was no W.M.D. pre -war in Iraq do you? Also, the last time I checked the Iraqi's were in control of their own oil, but hey, don't let little details like that get in the way of your diatribe.

 I guess you missed the Washington Post article last week which reported that Russian Special Forces were in Iraq, and specifically at the Al-Qa Qaa weapons depot immediately prior to the war. There is good evidence which suggests that weapons were in fact shipped out of Iraq and into Syria via huge a convoy of military trucks. Military and government officials have been trying to tell the public this ever since the beginning of the war, but the democrats would have non of it. I personally viewed satellite video of a large military convoy leaving Iraq and entering Syria just weeks before the war.

 Let's assume for arguments sake that there were no W.M.D. in Iraq, even though he (Saddam) used such weapons against Iran and even his own population.
 The known facts are that for twelve years Saddam ignored U.N. security council sanctions of complete disclosure of weapons and technology, including complete details of any weapons which were destroyed, dismantled, or otherwise disposed of. Saddam continuously delayed and diverted the weapons inspectors for twelve years.

Saddam was a brutal dictator who murdered hundreds of thousands of his own people.

Saddam was building nuclear weaponry, which he denied until the Israeli air-force wiped out his nuclear facilities.


Saddam launched and unprovoked attack on Kuwait and occupied that nation.

Saddam launched scud missiles into populated cities in Israel.

Saddam welcomed and cared for known al-Qaeda operatives.

Saddam attempted to assassinate a president of the United States.

Saddam stole billions of dollars of oil for food and medicine money from his own people with help from his friends - Germany - France - and Russia.

Saddam's sons were the epitome of evil - do you care about the babies they killed and tortured?

 Saddam was warned many times, and even attacked by a Democratic government (Clinton) for not abiding by the security council orders. I wonder if you care about the "babies" who no doubt were killed when Clinton attacked?
Still, Saddam refused to comply.

 If we don't follow up on threats of retaliation, the worlds dictators would soon become even more emboldened to commit crimes against humanity. I think twelve years was showing great patience and restraint, don't you?



 
Quote
Using the Bible to justify one's warring ways is a perfect example of how easy it has become to use the holy scripture when it is convenient to do so, and tailor it a little if need be.
 

 Who has used the Bible to justify war on this forum? The reality of the world we live in, demands that we must fight wars from time to time. This is a Biblical reality also, however, that does not add up to "Using the Bible to justify one's warring ways" Try to remember who attacked who first my friends.

  You don't seem to be aware of the "new enemy" We no longer face masses of armies on a battlefield. We no longer draw battle lines on the world map. We are up against a "ghost" army, where the enemy strikes with cars loaded with bombs, or aircraft aimed at civilian buildings. Mass murderers who take great joy at killing men, women, and children. They hide among the general population. We are pretty much forced into a strike first position.

 If you believe these terrorists are motivated by the "blood thirsty" evil Americans, then you are a fool. Sure, that's what the recruits are indoctrinated with. Images of the "Great Satan" with their "unprovoked" attacks on Islam.

 The real reason these terrorists attack is that they are fighting for territory, so they can set up their brutal radical Islamist states. I guess you condone the Taliban lifestyle...after-all, it's not your wives/sisters/daughters/husbands/sons/brothers/mothers/and fathers who have to live under such terror is it? It's ok, because we live free, safe and rich.


Quote
To believe that W. is acting with the will of God, is to live in a sick delusion.  It is the same sort of delusion that has justified thousands of evil actions over the centuries, by many world religions.  Killing another human being while wearing a cross around your neck, or proclaiming that it is in the name of God, or for the protection of Israel does not make it God's work.  If God is to judge us all, I'm comfortable with the positions I've taken.


 And you accuse others of being "simple minded"

 Stop trying to make Christians out to be blood thirsty radicals. No one likes war, we pray for the day when war will be wiped out of memory. The reality is that while we are here on this planet, we will fight wars, and innocent people will die. May God guide our leaders to be merciful when warranted and strong when required. Our leaders make decisions that you would run from. We are are strong, blessed nation (not perfect) The reason we are not speaking German, or praying to Allah five times a day, is because there are people who make tough decisions - people who take heat from those who haven't any clue as to how the world works, and at the end of the day, we are safe, free, and blessed.

 Your guy lost - live with it.


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Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2004, 04:30:10 PM »

Bronzesnake,

Amen.

Thank you and God bless you.

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« Reply #39 on: November 09, 2004, 05:18:08 PM »

Brothers and Sisters,

I'm sure that you've noticed, but we have a gang of trolls with us.

OR, would that be a herd of trolls?

They usually self-destruct pretty quickly. In the meantime, don't let them gore you with their horns.

Love In Christ,
Tom
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« Reply #40 on: November 09, 2004, 05:23:15 PM »

I'll second that Amen!  


Can anyone say abrakadabra?
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Tim

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« Reply #41 on: November 09, 2004, 05:27:30 PM »

I make a motion that we form a committee of three (guess who?) and take up a collection to send them to Fallujah to negotiate with Zarqawi and al Sadr.  That should at least eliminate 90%+ of the civilian deaths that are occurring over there, or........  Grin
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« Reply #42 on: November 09, 2004, 07:12:32 PM »

Bronzsnake:

what does "your guy lost" mean?

I don't understand that.  Jesus hasn't lost has he?  God hasn't lost has he?

Shouldn't we all be advocating for peace, rather than justifying war?

Ooooooh, I hope I didn't just break a rule by advocating for peace.
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« Reply #43 on: November 09, 2004, 07:15:07 PM »

I remember seeing video of some of the atrocities that where taking place in Iraq. I'm sure that most Americans saw this same video. The WMD argument that the Democrats keep throwing out there is really no argument at all. This non-since that God does not use people or nations to accomplish His will is also just that, non-since. As I said, most of the world has rejected Christ and has therefore chosen to place itself under Old Testament law. The President went to the UN many times to get them and the world to join with us in stopping Hussein and his henchmen. The reason for the UN's refusal and the refusal of France and other nations to join with us was simple. They would just as soon see Hussein kill his own people and continue giving the UN and it's cronies billions of dollars than do something to stop it. So when you go blaming the President for this war you might want to stop listening to the liberal press that is still whining over Kerry's loose. I don't know any Christian that is not appalled at the loose of life on both sides of this war. I do know that there where many Christians that turned their backs when Hitler did what he did. So you tell me. Which is worse, The one committing the atrocities or the one closing his or her eyes to the atrocities. I don't think God sees any difference.
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« Reply #44 on: November 09, 2004, 07:35:52 PM »

Bronzesnake,

Thank you for the history lesson of regarding the misgivings of Saddam.  In giving it though, I think you fell into the group to which I was reffering.  At no time did I say that I supported the actions of the Husein regime.  To do so would be madness.  It seems to be a pretty typical republican reaction to, at this stage of the game, comment on all of the horrors committed in Iraq.  This I fear is not because anyone in the U.S. administration cares about the Kurds, but because they are now gropping for new reasoning, having found no WMD's.  It is true that Saddam has used such wepons in the past, but they were provided to him by the American government. (Who incidently also sold wepons to Iran in the same war)  I also found your use of the U.N. argument to be contrary to many on your other posts.  It seems that you would act in defyance of the U.N. given any opportunity, yet you hold Saddam to a higher standard of global citezenship.  Make no mistake, the war in Iraq is not about saving the lives of the noble Iraqi, it is not about freedom, it does not make you any safer, and it is certainly not condoned by any God that I know.  Ofcourse, you are free and welcome to disagree, just don't tell me that I hold the opinions I do, because  I'm uninformed.  

As per the comments by our noble moderator, I find it odd that I would be called a troll, or have it implied that my views on this particular issue are unwelcome in some way.  I was not aware that being a good Christian meant automatic support for the War in Iraq. I hold my views on this matter because I beleive that killing innocent people is wrong, particularily when the reason behind their deaths is so ambiguous.
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