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Author Topic: How to Handle Contraditions in Scripture  (Read 10226 times)
Bluewolf
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« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2004, 05:58:37 PM »

Thanx, Tom, that was cool  Cool

I have wrestled with 1 John because he says that if you say you are without sin, you are a liar - but on the other hand, he says that if you belong to God, you cannot sin.


i john is one of my favorite epistles. I always liked the simplicity of it. I do not know why this is hard.

We cannot be saved by doing the law. We have sewers for souls. Jesus 'imparts righteousness' to us. So, if we say we have never sinned or that sin is not in us, we are liars. But in Christ, the Holy Spirit convicts us of sin, and if we keep doing the sins that God has convicted us of in a habitual matter, then we demonstrating that we are not of Christ. But that is an inside job, each person knows what the Holy spirit has convicted them of. This is not a license to judge others.

So we work to not sin (the ones we know about as they are revealed) but we will never be perfect nor is it even possible to get rid of our 'sinful nature', the soul core of sin.

That is how I see it. never really thought much about it.

Laura
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« Reply #31 on: November 22, 2004, 07:58:46 PM »

Guys
The question was posed as to what we are to do w/ contradictions in scripture. and the example given was law vs grace. Thanks to God, I believe I have a good explanation.
Though the bible is inspired by God via His vessels who wrote it, those who wrote it had different degrees of revelation of what was revealed to the church at the time of thier writings.
The Church didnt know of the gifts of the Holy Spirit until Pentecost.  They did not know the revelation of the gentiles coming to Christ, until Cornelius got saved.  In fact, in Acts its reported that the jewish church (jerusalem) was still teaching the law to the jewish christians while the gentile church was not required to do so.

Acts 21:
[17] And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.
[18] And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
[19] And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
[20] And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
[21] And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
[22] What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
[23] Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
[24] Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
[25] As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

So, There are some books in the NT, such as James that encourage practicing the Law, .. and if you see the 1st verse of James youll see it is written to the 12 tribes.  the jewish christians.

I personally believe that the reason Paul went to jerusalem, was to convince the elders of the church of the gospel of grace.  but he never got that far.
nonetheless, from the book of hebrews we can see that Paul (who I believe wrote it) did reach those in the church of jerusalem via the book.  and we see from the later books of 1+2nd Peter and John and 1,2,and 3rd John that they later embraced grace.
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Ro 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
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« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2004, 05:00:51 PM »

Guys

t
So, There are some books in the NT, such as James that encourage practicing the Law, .. and if you see the 1st verse of James youll see it is written to the 12 tribes.  the jewish christians.

I personally believe that the reason Paul went to jerusalem, was to convince the elders of the church of the gospel of grace.  but he never got that far.
nonetheless, from the book of hebrews we can see that Paul (who I believe wrote it) did reach those in the church of jerusalem via the book.  and we see from the later books of 1+2nd Peter and John and 1,2,and 3rd John that they later embraced grace.


Never saw James as advocating the law. The way I read it is that the works he spoke of did not earn salvation. We are saved by grace. Works demonstrate that we are saved by grace. If I person says they are saved, yet is not demonstrating the love of Christ by feeding the poor, etc, you have to wonder if they were really saved. It is not the works that save them, but if a person loves jesus, they will be demonstrating that love.

Like to paraphrase 'you say you believe...even the demons believe and shudder'

Believe, the word translated from greek includes 'adheres to, trusts in and relies on'(john 3:16). It is not just a 'head' belief. A total belief results in action, although the action/law is not what saves a person.

Don't see any contradiction...

Laura
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nChrist
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« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2004, 02:18:34 PM »

Brothers and Sisters,

There are no contradictions in the Holy Bible. What may appear to be contradictions are easily explained by looking at the time, the speaker, the audience, and the purpose. One must make a huge distinction between before the CROSS and after the CROSS. One must also realize that Israel is NOT the Church which is the BODY OF CHRIST.

1 John is an excellent example, as are many others when the subject is apparent contradictions. Reading the first chapter of 1 John solves a lot of apparent contradictions. It is very important to put portions of Scripture into context and understand who the audience is and what the purpose is for the Scripture. As an example, there is a huge difference in the requirements for Salvation, as opposed to what the testimony before men should be. Christians are definitely instructed to live a testimony before men that is pleasing to God.

Regarding works, Christians are instructed to do good works in love and appreciation. The Holy Bible is clear that any good works that we do as a duty, instead of love, will be burned up.

I think that the single most important thing to do while studying the Holy Bible is to study Scripture in context. Isolating portions of Scripture without the context usually leads to the so-called contradictions that don't exist.

Love In Christ,
Tom
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« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2004, 02:44:08 PM »

AMEN PASTOR ROGER AND MALKYEL,

Brother and Sister, I can easily see that both of you and I share the peace of God that is found only in Jesus Christ. I give thanks for the simplicity of the Gospel of the Grace of God and our joy in Jesus.

There are no contradictions in the Holy Bible. The Holy Bible  records the beautiful truth of Jesus coming unto His own, and His own rejected him. Thankfully, there is a huge difference between Israel and the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. The Apostle Paul spent much of his life in conflict with those who taught the Law instead of the Gospel of the Grace of God. He rebuked, corrected, and taught them, but his entire life was still spent in conflict. Many of the same conflicts Paul faced are quite real today.

One can look at the counsels of his time and see that many were slow to understand:  (1) The Law of Faith in Jesus Christ sets us free from the curse of sin and death;  (2) The CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST is not Israel;  (3) This is the dispensation of the Grace of God, not the Millennial Kingdom of God where Jesus Christ will rule and reign from the Throne of David.

Paul really spent his life trying to preach the pure and simple Gospel of the Grace of God. Paul longed for fellow believers to rejoice in their fellowship within the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. It was hard to explain that the real church wasn't made by human hands. Paul had many obstacles in his path, many dealing with the Law and the traditions of men. In fact, many of his obstacles were the teaching of men who were opposed to the Gospel of the Grace of God. It was a hard and difficult time for Paul, and it appears those times are still with us.

(1)  Many are still waiting for the Messiah, as they continue to reject Jesus Christ.

(2)  Many look for the King to take HIS Throne, and HE most certainly will at His appointed time. However, that time is not now.

(3)  Many already have the Kingdom of God in their hearts, Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour forever. The Kingdom of Heaven should not be confused with the Millennial Kingdom rule and reign of Jesus from the Throne of David. The Apostle Paul taught that we can have Jesus Christ in our hearts right now. We don't have to wait for the Millennial Kingdom to have Jesus Christ as LORD over our lives and hearts. This is the reality of Jesus Christ and the Cross - RIGHT NOW!

There were many during Paul's time who confused the Law with the Grace and Love of God. That problem is still rampant today. There were also many during Paul's time who confused Israel with the Church which is the BODY OF CHRIST. A portion of Israel accepted Jesus Christ and are members of the Church which is the BODY OF CHRIST. However, one must remember that God made specific promises to Israel, separate and distinct from the Body of Christ. God also made specific promises to the Church which is the BODY OF CHRIST, and one must remember that most of Israel does not belong to this body of believers. One can't casually mix Israel with the BODY OF CHRIST and hope to understand the future history already written in the Holy Bible. Israel will most certainly be the center of world attention in the age to come. God will most certainly fulfill all of His promises to Israel, and God will most certainly fulfill all of His promises to the Church which is the BODY OF CHRIST.

Brothers and Sisters, the reality of today is the Gospel of the Grace of God, Jesus Christ, the Cross, His Love, His Forgiveness, and our faith in HIM as Lord and Saviour. I give thanks this reality is now. We don't have to wait - HE will come into our hearts, forgive us, love us, and hold us safe and secure forever.

This is the GOOD NEWS that is a reality right now.

Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable GIFT, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour Forever!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Brother, absolutely outstanding Post!

The only I could possibly add to that is a loud,

AMEN!!!

Grace and Peace!
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Tim

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« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2004, 05:34:20 PM »


Never saw James as advocating the law. The way I read it is that the works he spoke of did not earn salvation. We are saved by grace. Works demonstrate that we are saved by grace. If I person says they are saved, yet is not demonstrating the love of Christ by feeding the poor, etc, you have to wonder if they were really saved. It is not the works that save them, but if a person loves jesus, they will be demonstrating that love.

Christians are saved, to keep the Law:
"For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth".(Romans 10:4).

So, Christians are not to 'keep the Law',  to be saved.
Christ lives in a converted person, to observe Righteousness....which is the keeping of all 10 commandments of God (Exodus 20:3-17).
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« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2004, 11:55:50 PM »

Saying that there are contradictions in the Bible might be the same as saying that the Bible is obscure, or, perhaps more accurately, an "enigma".

Suppose the Bible had no "contradictions", or was not elusive, or "obscure", or an enigma.

Suppose there were no parables?  No poetry.  No literary devices(the Hebrew is loaded with them, in the OT).

Suppose the Bible were as plain as the New York Telephone Directory.

Would anyone read it?

And besides, if it were that plain, wouldn't that be, then, just a series of dictations?

And if were just a series of dictations and platitudes, would anyone definitely read that?

It would be just a legal handbook, like a casebook of legal statutes.

It would just be a legal code.

A "bible" is suppose to be full of challenges, enigmas, apparent "contradictions".  That's what makes it a "bible" - it has to be figured out.

It isn't laid out for you clearly in stone, all of it, there in fine print.  Jesus spoke in parables for a reason.

   Smiley
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« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2004, 01:13:08 AM »

Symphony,

You made some excellent points.

I also think there is a grand design in the Holy Bible from Almighty God Himself. In fact, I know there is. Many of the Truths of the Holy Bible are spiritually discerned with the help of the Holy Spirit. We all know that one must be saved to have the Holy Spirit in their heart, so much of the Holy Bible doesn't make much sense to the lost, except the very shallow things of the Word. The intelligence of the lost person makes little or no difference.

Christians are instructed to study to show ourselves approved as workmen, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. There isn't enough time in several lifetimes to understand all of the deep things of the Word. As Christians, we know that we grow in strength, maturity, and knowledge as we study His Word and yield to His Will. The exact same thing is true with our peace and joy in Him.

Salvation is full and free, but the fullness of our joy and strength in Him requires time, effort, diligence, and a yielding heart. In other words: He give us Salvation free, but our fullness in joy and strength in Him depends on us. Please don't think that I'm suggesting a works gospel, because I'm not. I'm simply saying that a baby Christian will remain a baby Christian until they start studying the Word and yielding to His Will. God's ways are past finding out, but we are given much more than a glimpse in His Word. I'm positive that hosts of mature Christians went home to glory and still had many questions that only God can answer.

Love In Christ,
Tom
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« Reply #38 on: November 28, 2004, 12:21:31 AM »

Saying that there are contradictions in the Bible might be the same as saying that the Bible is obscure, or, perhaps more accurately, an "enigma".

Suppose the Bible had no "contradictions", or was not elusive, or "obscure", or an enigma.

The Bible is God's instruction book for humans to gain knowledge whereby we can undrstand the conditions, whereby we might be saved.

God warns us....."My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children", (Hosea 4:6).

Sin came by breaking God's Law (Adam and Eve), the Christian is the restored human being, to keep God's law (Romans 3:31).
As it is written:  "For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth", (Romans 10:4).

No man can keep the 10 commandments of God....without the power (grace) of God to obey them.

 
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« Reply #39 on: November 28, 2004, 12:37:39 AM »

 This topic deals with 'seemingly apparent' contraditions found in the Bible.
For example:
#1.)   "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law"(Romans 3:28).  
#2.) "(For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the [doers] of the law shall be justified", (Romans 2:13).  
Both of these are valid Bible verses....and both are absolutely True !
Even though they seem to contradict each other, and both of these Bible statements are made by the same Bible writer, the Apostle Paul.

The human mind, unaided by the Holy Spirit....seems unable to make these seemingly contradictory Bible statements harmonize. The human mind will choose one Bible verse, and ignore the other....which is extremely dangerous !
WHY ?
Because Jesus said: "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by [every word] that proceedeth out of the mouth of God", (Matthew 4:4).  

More examples:
#1.) 'No sin in breaking the Law', (Ephesians 2:15).
#2.) 'Breaking the Law is sin', (1 John 3:4).


#1.) 'Not to be Judged by the Law', (Colossians 2:16).
#2.) 'We will be Judged by the Law', (Ecclesiastes 12:13,14....James 2:10-12).


#1.) 'Perfect Law of Liberty', (James 1:25 ands 2:12).
#2.) 'Person who keeps this Law, loses his liberty', (Galations 5:1,3).


#1.) 'Law abolish by Christ', (Ephesians 2:15).
#2.) 'Law established by Christ' (Romans 3:31).

The list goes on and on and on....

Does the Bible contradict itself ?

Some people have reached the conclusion that it does.

Personally, I believe that the Bible is in perfect harmony with itself, once understood how to harmonize seemingly contradictory statements.

OK, Lets' look at the first example again:
#1.)   "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law"(Romans 3:28).
 "As you look into the Lord's great moral looking glass, His holy law, His standard of character, do not for a moment suppose that it can cleanse you. There are no saving properties in the law. It cannot pardon the transgressor".(6th Bible commentaries, by E.G White)

#2.) "(For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the [doers] of the law shall be justified", (Romans 2:13).
This is answered by another Bible verse:    "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law, (Romans 3:31).
How can we as humans (Christians) uphold the Law of God, in our feeble human strength ?

Answer: We cannot !

"For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth", (Romans 10:4).  
Christ living in the converted person 'does' the works of righteousness, which is the keeping of all 10 commandments of God....therefore we cannot boast of anything, because we are only allowing Christ to work his will, in our daily lives.
 

There is no contradiction of scripture. What is important,  do we always understand what it says. Smiley
Christ died to annul the whole system of Jewish laws.
It's interesting to contemplate on all of the extra rules that man has added to their various doctrines today. We have the Bible to check things out.  Wink

God bless,
bluelake
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« Reply #40 on: November 28, 2004, 12:53:49 AM »

There is no contradiction of scripture. What is important,  do we always understand what it says. Smiley
Christ died to annul the whole system of Jewish laws.
It's interesting to contemplate on all of the extra rules that man has added to their various doctrines today. We have the Bible to check things out.  Wink

God bless,
bluelake

Oh...you mean like Sunday worship services.....which the Bible does not support ?

Or, like the Immortal soul doctrine...which Satan statred in Eden ?
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« Reply #41 on: November 28, 2004, 03:33:46 PM »

Quote
Bluelake Said:

There is no contradiction of scripture. What is important,  do we always understand what it says.
Christ died to annul the whole system of Jewish laws.
It's interesting to contemplate on all of the extra rules that man has added to their various doctrines today. We have the Bible to check things out.

God bless,
bluelake

AMEN BLUELAKE!

Love In Chist,
Tom

Hebrews 12:2  Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
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