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Author Topic: How to Handle Contraditions in Scripture  (Read 4188 times)
Silver Surfer
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« on: October 30, 2004, 04:17:34 PM »

 This topic deals with 'seemingly apparent' contraditions found in the Bible.
For example:
#1.)   "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law"(Romans 3:28).  
#2.) "(For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the [doers] of the law shall be justified", (Romans 2:13).  
Both of these are valid Bible verses....and both are absolutely True !
Even though they seem to contradict each other, and both of these Bible statements are made by the same Bible writer, the Apostle Paul.

The human mind, unaided by the Holy Spirit....seems unable to make these seemingly contradictory Bible statements harmonize. The human mind will choose one Bible verse, and ignore the other....which is extremely dangerous !
WHY ?
Because Jesus said: "But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by [every word] that proceedeth out of the mouth of God", (Matthew 4:4).  

More examples:
#1.) 'No sin in breaking the Law', (Ephesians 2:15).
#2.) 'Breaking the Law is sin', (1 John 3:4).


#1.) 'Not to be Judged by the Law', (Colossians 2:16).
#2.) 'We will be Judged by the Law', (Ecclesiastes 12:13,14....James 2:10-12).


#1.) 'Perfect Law of Liberty', (James 1:25 ands 2:12).
#2.) 'Person who keeps this Law, loses his liberty', (Galations 5:1,3).


#1.) 'Law abolish by Christ', (Ephesians 2:15).
#2.) 'Law established by Christ' (Romans 3:31).

The list goes on and on and on....

Does the Bible contradict itself ?

Some people have reached the conclusion that it does.

Personally, I believe that the Bible is in perfect harmony with itself, once understood how to harmonize seemingly contradictory statements.

OK, Lets' look at the first example again:
#1.)   "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law"(Romans 3:28).
 "As you look into the Lord's great moral looking glass, His holy law, His standard of character, do not for a moment suppose that it can cleanse you. There are no saving properties in the law. It cannot pardon the transgressor".(6th Bible commentaries, by E.G White)

#2.) "(For not the hearers of the law [are] just before God, but the [doers] of the law shall be justified", (Romans 2:13).
This is answered by another Bible verse:    "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law, (Romans 3:31).
How can we as humans (Christians) uphold the Law of God, in our feeble human strength ?

Answer: We cannot !

"For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth", (Romans 10:4).  
Christ living in the converted person 'does' the works of righteousness, which is the keeping of all 10 commandments of God....therefore we cannot boast of anything, because we are only allowing Christ to work his will, in our daily lives.
 
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nChrist
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« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2004, 04:29:16 PM »

(1 John 1:Cool  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

(1 John 1:9)  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

(1 John 1:10)  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
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Silver Surfer
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« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2004, 04:51:12 PM »

(1 John 1:Cool  If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
Therefore let no man declare that they are 'saved'. Because being 'saved' (past tense) means they are sinless. As salvation is being saved [from] sin (Matthew 1:21).
Quote
(1 John 1:9)  If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
And as God reveals some sin we are not yet aware of...we are to take steps to correct those faults, thru the power of God:   Acts 17:30   "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent".  
Quote
(1 John 1:10)  If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (Romans 3:23).

But let's not ignore:
Romans   6:12   "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.  
  6:13   Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God.  
  6:14   For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.  
  6:15   What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid".
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MalkyEL
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« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2004, 06:00:12 PM »

Silver Surfer wrote:
Christ living in the converted person 'does' the works of righteousness, which is the keeping of all 10 commandments of God....therefore we cannot boast of anything, because we are only allowing Christ to work his will, in our daily lives.

Nana:
Perhaps you could tell us which of the 10 commandments you have kept since you have "allowed Christ to work His will in you".

Thanx,  Nana
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« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2004, 07:51:07 PM »

Silver Surfer wrote:
Christ living in the converted person 'does' the works of righteousness, which is the keeping of all 10 commandments of God....therefore we cannot boast of anything, because we are only allowing Christ to work his will, in our daily lives.

Nana:
Perhaps you could tell us which of the 10 commandments you have kept since you have "allowed Christ to work His will in you".

Thanx,  Nana

When I have 'allowed' Christ to control me, I have kept them all.
 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.  
  2:4   He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him",(1 John 2)  
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MalkyEL
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« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2004, 07:59:00 PM »

you have kept all the commandments . . . by what/who's definition?

thanx, Nana
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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2004, 12:37:06 AM »

Quote
Silver Surfer Said:

When I have 'allowed' Christ to control me, I have kept them all.
"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.  
  2:4  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him",(1 John 2)  

Silver Surfer,

You absolutely HAVE NOT kept the 10 Commandments, nor have you kept the Commandments of Christ.

If one lives under the Law, one must obey all or be in violation of all. Since you are living under the Law, you are in violation of all. I'm living under the Gospel of God's Grace, not the Law.

You need to read all of 1 John one day when your eyes are open. There are many instructions in the New Testament for Christian living, specifically for living a life of joy more full in Jesus. Many of these instructions are known as exhortations, not commandments. There are many other portions of Scripture that deal with a Christian's testimony before men. Some folks confuse what a Christian's testimony should be with Salvation. These are pretty common problems for someone who has been brain-washed and is living under a false prophet or false prophetess. You are being robbed of joy in Jesus, and you are trying to blind others and rob them. Your false prophetess has actually stolen a beginner's understanding of Jesus from you.

Silver Surfer, I feel very sorry for you and pray for you daily.

Tom
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MalkyEL
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« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2004, 01:23:34 AM »

Thanx, Tom, that was cool  Cool

I have wrestled with 1 John because he says that if you say you are without sin, you are a liar - but on the other hand, he says that if you belong to God, you cannot sin.

As I was reading and meditating on this whole concept, I was reminded of Jesus' words.

Matt 15:18 But the things which come out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies;
20 these are the things which defile a man, but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.

and in Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing apart of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight, but all things are naked and opened to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do.

When we are reborn of His Spirit we become one with Him.

Paul also stated that we do that which we don't want to do and we don't do what we want to do.

So we have a war within us - the flesh desiring to sin, and the Spirit desiring to remain pure.

At the end of Rom 7, Paul says - who shall deliver me from this body of death - it is Jesus.  Rom 8:1 - there is therefore now no condmenation to them that are in Christ Jesus.

Tying those thoughts together - we sin because we are in the flesh.  But the heart is what God looks at.  The intents and motives have always been His prerequiste for judging our sin through the blood of Jesus.

Even though we sin, we confess it and by the grace of God, through the atoning work of Jesus, we are considered righteous.

It is a matter of the heart before God.  The heart that is dedicated to Him and has been reborn of Spirit, with the motive and intent to do God's will, in spite of the fact that we fail - but in His grace, He considers us to be without sin in the heart - our attitude and position before Him - knowing that without Him, and His grace we would be doomed to hell.

Let me reiterate, that I am not saying we are without sin - we all sin and come short of the glory of God.  It is the condition of the heart that God sees as sinless/righteous because He dwells within us - does that make sense?

I wonder if anyone has a different perspective or can explain  why John seems to make a contridictory statement?

Shalom, Nana
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« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2004, 10:34:50 AM »

you have kept all the commandments . . . by what/who's definition?

thanx, Nana
By God's definition, of course.

I believe the Bible gives us enough guildlines for us to follow:
Jesus said:"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by [every word] that proceedeth out of the mouth of God", (Matthew 4:4).
 
B-Basic
I-Instructions  
B-Before
L-Leaving
E-Earth



Let's take the 4th commandment for example:

 Exodus  20:8   "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy...
.  
  20:9   Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
 
  20:10   But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:  
  20:11   For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it".


Point #1.) I don't work on the Sabbath. I attend church on Sabbath after the example of Jesus Christ.
(The United Sates Constitution 'presently' gives me the right to freedom of religion, therefore no employer can fire me for refusing to work on that day).

Point #2.) The 7th day Sabbath is 'NOT' Jewish, as God blessed that day......and made it holy (Genesis 2:2,3).....some 2300 years 'BEFORE', there ever was a Jew.

And, the 4th commandment points us back to that fact, that the 7th day Sabbath, started at Creation week, not on Mt.Sinai.

Therefore using this information that the 7th day Sabbath is not Jewish.....I can read Ezekiel 20:20 in that light:
"And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a [sign] between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God".  

Also, I understand the fact.....'that to break just one of the commandments, is to break them all', (James 2:10-12).



Now, before I end this, I want to imply:

 "For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous".  (1 John 5:3).



 
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« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2004, 11:24:56 AM »

Job 28:20  Whence then cometh wisdom? and where is the place of understanding?

Job 28:28  And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

Job 34:37  For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.

Job 38:36  Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?


Eph 1:17  That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
Eph 1:18  The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,
Eph 1:19  And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
Eph 1:20  Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21  Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22  And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23  Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.


1Ti 1:4  Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
1Ti 1:5  Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
1Ti 1:6  From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;
1Ti 1:7  Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1Ti 1:8  But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9  Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10  For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1Ti 1:11  According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
1Ti 1:12  And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
1Ti 1:13  Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
1Ti 1:14  And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.
1Ti 1:15  This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

 Joh 1:17  For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Rom 5:20  Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
Rom 5:21  That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 6:14  For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Gal 2:21  I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Gal 5:4  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5  For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2Ti 2:7  Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

Praise The Lord For His Infinite Grace!
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« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2004, 02:09:45 PM »

double post - oops  Embarrassed
« Last Edit: October 31, 2004, 02:19:35 PM by MalkyEL » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2004, 02:18:49 PM »

Silver Surfer,
You are basing your life in God on a false premise of doing.  God does not require that we do something to earn His favor.

God desires that we love Him with all of our heart, soul, mind, and strength.

Keeping the Law of Moses has nothing to do with relationship or serving God as of the New Covenant.

The desire to keep the Law of Moses is based on an Old Covenant perspective - one in which God demanded  Law keeping in order to train and regulate life to measure up to His holiness.  It was a fleshly action because the Holy Spirit did not indwell believers as He does today.  Believers were not reborn of water and Spirit.

It is true that the Holy Spirit indwelt many OT people, but it was a different dispensation because Jesus had not yet been crucified and resurrected.

Keeping the Law of Moses is no longer required, because it was based on a different system of obedience - a strict set of regulations and commands that defined the decalogue and how to keep it in accordance to the will of God.

When Jesus came, that system was put to rest.  The decalogue was the base from which Jesus taught, but always, in every instance - when the decalogue was referred to, Jesus showed a new way of obedience based on the motives of the heart, not blind obedience to a system.

Keeping "all of the commandments" now entails the laws written on the heart - which is being led by the Holy Spirit to do the things that God has prepared for us to do, not rules and regulations, but the motive of the heart towards others.  The love of Christ, the mind of Christ - which is compassion, mercy, justice.  His laws were:  to love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.  To love your neighbor as yourself.  To love one another as He loved us.  The beatitudes are a good start as to the Law of Christ.

If you look at the context of Matt 5:17-20 - the famous "keep the Law" verses,  were presented within the sermon on the mount.  When Jesus refers to the laws of Moses, it is how to live a godly life based on life in Jesus, as He breathes new life into the command by changing and redefining it.  He is the Way, the Truth, the Life.  He made point after point that the heart would rule our actions.  When the Holy Spirit indwells, the heart becomes one with God and out of the heart proceeds the will of God.

As David said.  Your Word have I hid in my heart, that I might not sin against You.  It is so simple.  Why make it so complicated by a force of will to do commands that are not relevent to a life in Jesus?

The mistake made is that people say because He "kept" Torah, we should too.  That is a false premise.  Jesus did not say to keep Torah.  He said He gave a new commandment.

Jesus said that heaven and earth would not pass away until every part of the law was fulfilled.  He fulfilled it on Calvery and in His teachings - because all the law and prophets hang on these two laws - love God, love your neighbor.  This is the beauty of grace - that came in the person of Jesus Christ.  The perfect fulfillment of the law and prophets.

for reference:  Matt 5:17 Do not think that I came to annul the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to annul, but to fulfill.
18 Truly I say to you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away, in no way shall one iota or one point pass away from the Law until all comes to pass.

Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under Law.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
23 meekness, self-control, [righteousness, and truth - Eph 5:9],against such things there is not a law.
24 But the ones belonging to Christ crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not become vainglorious, provoking one another, envying one another

Shalom, Nana
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« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2004, 03:19:55 PM »

AMEN PASTOR ROGER AND MALKYEL,

Brother and Sister, I can easily see that both of you and I share the peace of God that is found only in Jesus Christ. I give thanks for the simplicity of the Gospel of the Grace of God and our joy in Jesus.

There are no contradictions in the Holy Bible. The Holy Bible  records the beautiful truth of Jesus coming unto His own, and His own rejected him. Thankfully, there is a huge difference between Israel and the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. The Apostle Paul spent much of his life in conflict with those who taught the Law instead of the Gospel of the Grace of God. He rebuked, corrected, and taught them, but his entire life was still spent in conflict. Many of the same conflicts Paul faced are quite real today.

One can look at the counsels of his time and see that many were slow to understand:  (1) The Law of Faith in Jesus Christ sets us free from the curse of sin and death;  (2) The CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST is not Israel;  (3) This is the dispensation of the Grace of God, not the Millennial Kingdom of God where Jesus Christ will rule and reign from the Throne of David.

Paul really spent his life trying to preach the pure and simple Gospel of the Grace of God. Paul longed for fellow believers to rejoice in their fellowship within the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. It was hard to explain that the real church wasn't made by human hands. Paul had many obstacles in his path, many dealing with the Law and the traditions of men. In fact, many of his obstacles were the teaching of men who were opposed to the Gospel of the Grace of God. It was a hard and difficult time for Paul, and it appears those times are still with us.

(1)  Many are still waiting for the Messiah, as they continue to reject Jesus Christ.

(2)  Many look for the King to take HIS Throne, and HE most certainly will at His appointed time. However, that time is not now.

(3)  Many already have the Kingdom of God in their hearts, Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour forever. The Kingdom of Heaven should not be confused with the Millennial Kingdom rule and reign of Jesus from the Throne of David. The Apostle Paul taught that we can have Jesus Christ in our hearts right now. We don't have to wait for the Millennial Kingdom to have Jesus Christ as LORD over our lives and hearts. This is the reality of Jesus Christ and the Cross - RIGHT NOW!

There were many during Paul's time who confused the Law with the Grace and Love of God. That problem is still rampant today. There were also many during Paul's time who confused Israel with the Church which is the BODY OF CHRIST. A portion of Israel accepted Jesus Christ and are members of the Church which is the BODY OF CHRIST. However, one must remember that God made specific promises to Israel, separate and distinct from the Body of Christ. God also made specific promises to the Church which is the BODY OF CHRIST, and one must remember that most of Israel does not belong to this body of believers. One can't casually mix Israel with the BODY OF CHRIST and hope to understand the future history already written in the Holy Bible. Israel will most certainly be the center of world attention in the age to come. God will most certainly fulfill all of His promises to Israel, and God will most certainly fulfill all of His promises to the Church which is the BODY OF CHRIST.

Brothers and Sisters, the reality of today is the Gospel of the Grace of God, Jesus Christ, the Cross, His Love, His Forgiveness, and our faith in HIM as Lord and Saviour. I give thanks this reality is now. We don't have to wait - HE will come into our hearts, forgive us, love us, and hold us safe and secure forever.

This is the GOOD NEWS that is a reality right now.

Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable GIFT, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour Forever!

Love In Christ,
Tom
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« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2004, 03:34:43 PM »

blackeyedpeas


Amen to all that you said.

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« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2004, 04:23:43 PM »


'Contradictions' keep it interesting.



     Cool
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