Over 13,000 Civilians Killed in Iraq

[Alnilam]

Hi Bronzesnake,

The USSR and Great Britain were "allies" during WWII.  After the war the soviets built and maintained a large bomber and missle force.  Later this included basing weapons in Cuba.

The soviets didn't participate in the North African campaign but after the war supplied war materials to many client states including Egypt.

The soviets did invade Europe during WWII.  Germany and the USSR invaded Poland to start the war.  The USSR also invaded Finland.  Later huge soviet armies invaded eastern Europe and maintained occupation for decades.  The USSR was also prepared to send occupation troops to Japan but MacArthur stopped that.

Stalin led the USSR at the begining of the cold war.  Those that followed him continued soviet expansion, exerting influence in Asia, Africa, the Middle East, South and Central America.   No doubt in my mind that he was no better than Hitler.  I hope we can agree about this.

You take care too my friend.  I trust you are feeling well, IIRC you were very sick for a while.

Peace

Alnilam  

[Tim Vaughan]

These totals do not include the 6 million Jews who perished in the Final Solution of Nazi Germany or the 17 million dead as a result of Japan's policies in Asia from 1931 to 1945.

Most of the Jewish dead are indeed included, see the Polish figure.

[Bronzesnake]

These totals do not include the 6 million Jews who perished in the Final Solution of Nazi Germany or the 17 million dead as a result of Japan's policies in Asia from 1931 to 1945.

Most of the Jewish dead are indeed included, see the Polish figure.

 Get serious my friend.
 The Polish figures counted a large population of their Jewish people - 3 million. Poland had 6 million deaths including 3 million Jews, roughly 20% of its prewar population.
 However, as I pointed out - this total did not include the the 6 million Jews who perished in the Final Solution of Nazi Germany or the 17 million dead as a result of Japan's policies in Asia from 1931 to 1945.

 Are you contending the numbers are wrong in regards to the total death count as a direct result of the Nazi prison camps?
 Do you make no distinction from dying during battle and being murdered while in prison by being poisoned and shoveled into ovens? In many instances, children were tossed into the ovens alive.

 I have zero tolerance for anyone who belittles the horror and evil which was bestowed upon our Jewish brothers and sisters by black hearted Zazi scum. The numbers are legitimate.Only white supremists, anti-Semites and fools dispute or minimalize them.

Bronzesnake

[Tim Vaughan]

Get serious my friend.
The Polish figures counted a large population of their Jewish people - 3 million. Poland had 6 million deaths including 3 million Jews, roughly 20% of its prewar population.
However, as I pointed out - this total did not include the the 6 million Jews who perished in the Final Solution of Nazi Germany or the 17 million dead as a result of Japan's policies in Asia from 1931 to 1945.

My friend, I moderate a WW2 warcrimes site, and I assure you that the 3 million Polish Jews are part of the six million figure. By mocking me you will only make a fool of yourself. Other countries lost less, e.g. Austria 20,000, Holland 100,000 or so, Hungary 200,000 to 400,000 thousand depending on who's figures you trust.

[Kalthzar]

I'm still suprised that Britan lost more people due to Bombing raids than the US did soldiers for the war......

are you sure its right?

i mean wow, weren't in there for long were they....

[Tim Vaughan]

mean wow, weren't in there for long were they....  

 
 They were in there for 6 years, we were in for 4 years.

[Kalthzar]

still doesn't make sense though

for four years you'd expect more soldiers to die than 292000

[Tim Vaughan]

The British and the Russians were probably the least effective allied troops in both wars. The French suffered the brunt of the German offensive during WW1 for a variety of reasons.

One reason that the French collapsed so fast was German propaganda that said "The British will fight until the last drop of French blood has been spilt". That contained more than a grain of truth, and was effective propaganda with the French.

The main way that the UK suffered was financial, and they are still recovering from the two world wars. The Marshal Plan helped the UK much more than Germay, for what it's worth.

Regards
Tim

[Kalthzar]

ok, i always wondered why the british, having such large reserves (i.e. the indian military reserves were in the millions i am told) were so ineffective...

[Tim Vaughan]

ok, i always wondered why the british, having such large reserves (i.e. the indian military reserves were in the millions i am told) were so ineffective...

Their military doctrine was outdated. During the last German offensive of WW1, Von Ludendorf picked the British to attack as the French were too tough. There is a book called Stormtroop Tactics that deals with the subject.

Also, the British have a history of playing people off against each other.

[Kalthzar]

Yeah, we never really get taught our own history, sometimes it is interesting!

Merchants/Pirates conquered a quarter of the Globe......weird really

[WolfBrother]

i wonder what would have happened if the Atom Bomb didn't exist?

A tremendously HUGE number of Japanese (Soldiers, civilians, women, and children) would have been killed.

WWII estimates, based on casualty rates derived from invasions on Japanese held islands, put US casualties at 1,000,000 plus.


MY OPINION -
1.  We are involved in the the same WAR that has been going on since before the Crusades - Muslim versus anyone else who isn't.

2.  Concerning the casualty figures that started this thread -  Better their civilians than ours.

[Bronzesnake]

Get serious my friend.
The Polish figures counted a large population of their Jewish people - 3 million. Poland had 6 million deaths including 3 million Jews, roughly 20% of its prewar population.
However, as I pointed out - this total did not include the the 6 million Jews who perished in the Final Solution of Nazi Germany or the 17 million dead as a result of Japan's policies in Asia from 1931 to 1945.

My friend, I moderate a WW2 warcrimes site, and I assure you that the 3 million Polish Jews are part of the six million figure. By mocking me you will only make a fool of yourself. Other countries lost less, e.g. Austria 20,000, Holland 100,000 or so, Hungary 200,000 to 400,000 thousand depending on who's figures you trust.

 Oh...my mistake - you moderate a WWII warcrimes site - so you are the final authority.

Bronzesnake

[Tim Vaughan]

Oh...my mistake - you moderate a WWII warcrimes site - so you are the final authority.

No, but I will take you up on it. Give me something concrete. How many Jews do you think were killed in WW2? 9 million? Please don't run.

[Tim Vaughan]

http://www.euronet.nl/users/wilfried/ww2/epilogue.htm

Here's somewhere where you can start, but again I tell you that you will make a fool of yourself by not counting Polish Jews in the 6 million figure.

The number of Jews killed in WW2 from all countries accepted by top, mainline historians runs from Reitlinger's figure of 4.6 million, which I find reasonable, to a middle figure by Hilberg, the most respected of the Jewish WW2 historians of 5.1 to an upper figure of 6.1 held by a few others.

I ask you to either drop the subject, or name one person who will add the 3 million Polish Jews to the 6 million figure. If you can't name one person, and refuse to concede you don't have a source, I'll ignore you in the future.