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Author Topic: Abortion  (Read 1450 times)
Hurting
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« on: October 17, 2004, 09:07:18 AM »

If this has already started then please lock it. Hear me out. I used to be fully pro-abortion on the subject, but now Im more neutral.
What hurts me more then anything is that women who have abortions get labelled as murderers. Some of those women who have abortions are genuinely traumatised by the events.
I would only consider it if my child was incapable of doing anything, if it was in great pain and suffering for the rest of its life.
It'd hurt me to see my little one crying out in pain, calling to me, even though I could not help it...that's what frightens me...
I could never let an innocent suffer...
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Aiden
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« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2004, 08:20:03 PM »

Hey hurting,
Just before I start typing off the top of my head, let me warn you that I am in no way very well versed in all this. Hopefully someone more learned in this will help out.
About women who choose to abort their children and get labelled murderers. Though it is sad to say, murder is what abortion is. I'll let someone discuss, if they want, on when exactly it is considered murdered according to the level of the babies' self-awareness. You said that there are mothers who abort their children and feel traumatized about it. Well, the fact that they feel guilt about it should ,in itself, show that abortion is wrong. Yes, they are traumatized, and yes they are murderers, but I do not think people should brand them murderers. We all have the capabilities of murdering someone, its just that the opportunity hasn't arrived or that some other force (God) has given us the power/grace to resist.
Now on to your thoughts about what to do if you had a suffering child. Now I'm not sure, but can the doctor tell you that your child is going to suffer all the time? They can tell if they'll have a terminal illness, but thats not all suffering all the time. If they are alive, then God has a plan for them, and his plans are never all pain and no joy. The possibilities of having a child who would suffer it's entire existence, and much less the doctor being able to tell that before birth, is highly improbable I should think. I'm serious when I say correct me if I'm wrong. Like I said previously, this is just my immediate thoughts on this. I should like to learn more on the subject however, so please, anyone who is learned in this, share some knowledge. Take care Hurting, and I just feel like I should encourage you to keep being open to God. The Lord will not hide from those who truly seek him, I believe. With love.

-Aiden-
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Aiden
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« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2004, 10:06:08 PM »

Somebody more wise than myself should really help Hurting out here. She needs more than just my two cents. I'm just trying to get this post back to the top so maybe someone will provide more help than I can. Once again Hurting, I'm praying for you. Don't lose hope and keep on being open to truth. Take heart.

-Aiden-
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DovesWings
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« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2004, 06:31:52 AM »

I have to admit myself, I am not very wise, but here's my 2 cents...
I know girls who have been raped and have had their children(I am one of them), I know girls who have been told that their child will be born w/ certain disabilities and STILL have their child...there is always joy when a baby is born...even in the tiniest aspect...espcecially when the baby is sick.  That's life being brought forth, a miracle, and God is w/ all of us.
I'll tell you which women I would consider murderers for having abortions...those who use it as a form of birth control.  When I was in college, I knew this girl, and I lost count after her 4th abortion...one day she and her friends even had an "abortion day out"....sad.
Another girl I knew...she herself was adopted, so at least her mother gave her a chance to live, but she still had 2 abortions because she didn't feel "ready" for these children.  Pretty sad.
I believe God lets a person be created for a purpose.  We don't know how any other person feels except for ourselves.  We can't feel their pain, don't know if they are truly happy, truly in so much pain they can't stand it, etc.  
Another example....a cousin of mine was told her baby was going to be born completely deformed, etc.  She refused to have an abortion...her child is totally normal and perfect.  I have a cousin who was born dead, no pulse, blue as can be, etc....they worked on her, and she finally started to breath and cry(after a few minutes)....they told my aunt and uncle she would be physically and emotionally challenged...she was a straight A student, a natural at the violen, vibrant and now in the Air Force serving our country and a married mom of two beautiful girls.  
Abortion is between the individual, that child and God.  
I can't judge it...I can only say what I've seen and experienced first hand.
God bless...
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sincereheart
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« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2004, 09:31:07 AM »

Actually DovesWings, I saw much wisdom in your post!  Smiley
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Pastor Roger
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« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2004, 01:22:45 PM »

I, too, have a problem seeing children suffer. It tears at the very fibre of my heart. I see it daily during my daily works for the Lord even in physically healthy children.

God has a purpose for each child concieved whether it is ill or not.

Rather than making this a long drawn out sermon may I refer you to  this web site so you can see what the Bible has to say about it:

http://www.konig.org/prolife.htm

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Chesed
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« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2004, 02:07:30 PM »

Dear Hurting -

I agree that we need to be careful about labeling women who have abortions as murderers. I am against abortion and I believe it should be illegal. I must admit I can somewhat understand if a women wants to have an abortion when she conceived out of an act of rape. It doesn't mean that I condone abortion in this case, but being human and being a woman, I can understand how a woman would feel carrying a child conceived by rape.

However, for me when I was pregnant both times I was very sick. It was like the flu for at least 4 months straight, only keeping down one meal a day. The expectation and joy of having a child at the end of ordeal was the only thing that got me through those awful months. I couldn't imagine going through all that I did and not have something to show for it at the end of it all.

My older sister concieved a child when she was unmarried and decided not to marry the father. She told me that if there had been an abortion clinic next door, she probably would have gone in to have an abortion. Now she has a wonderful 13 year old daughter and she can't imagine ever thinking that she could have aborted her.

Statistically, only approx. 3% of abortions are the result of rape - that's a very small percent. 2 years ago I heard a statistic about abortion that shocked me, but the majority of women who had an abortion in the year 2002 had this in common: they had living children. Over 60% of these women had children of their own. These are not teenagers whose parents are going to throw them out of the house, these are older women who have all the children they want and are using abortion as birth control. It's sickening.

I graduated high school with a girl whose mother was encouraged to have an abortion while pregnant with her because of a heart defect. The doctor predicted that the baby would only live a short while and be a "vegetable." The mother didn't listen to her doctor and had her baby. She graduated with honors and now works for NASA. Her heart "problem" turned out to be very minor.

You seem to be very tender-hearted and I think your heart is in the right place, not being able to stand to see children suffer. However you should consider that an abortion is a very painful process for an unborn child - a very gruesome way to die. (I won't go into details for you unless you want me too.)

So why do you call yourself "Hurting."  Would you like us to pray for you? My heart really goes out to you and I hope you will find comfort from your pain.

Psalm  42:1 For the leader. A maskil of the descendants of Korach: Just as a deer longs for running streams, God, I long for you. 2 I am thirsty for God, for the living God! When can I come and appear before God? 3 My tears are my food, day and night, while all day people ask me, "Where is your God?" 4 I recall, as my feelings well up within me, how I'd go with the crowd to the house of God, with sounds of joy and praise from the throngs observing the festival. 5 My soul, why are you so downcast? Why are you groaning inside me? Hope in God, since I will praise him again for the salvation that comes from his presence.

6 My God, when I feel so downcast, I remind myself of you from the land of Yarden, from the peaks of Hermon, from the hill Mizar. 7 Deep is calling to deep at the thunder of your waterfalls; all your surging rapids and waves are sweeping over me. 8 By day ADONAI commands his grace, and at night his song is with me as a prayer to the God of my life. 9 I say to God my Rock, "Why have you forgotten me? Why must I go about mourning, under pressure by the enemy? 10 My adversaries' taunts make me feel as if my bones were crushed, as they ask me all day long, 'Where is your God?'" 11 My soul, why are you so downcast? Why are you groaning inside me? Hope in God, since I will praise him again for being my Savior and God.

Take care -
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« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2004, 06:05:09 PM »

Actually DovesWings, I saw much wisdom in your post!  Smiley

Wow...thanks sincereheart Smiley

God bless!!! Smiley
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Hurting
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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2005, 11:46:44 AM »

Thing is...you never know what you could be missing out on if you gave birth. I wonder how I would feel?
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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2005, 02:29:54 PM »

Thing is...you never know what you could be missing out on if you gave birth. I wonder how I would feel?

 Hello my friend.

 I understand the trauma and the pain that women go through when they are in between keeping the child, or killing the child. Let's not candy coat it - when a child is "aborted" it is in fact killed.

 Should we label the mother a murderer? I think it's up to God, but we, as Christians, have been commanded by God to spread the Truth - to fight against such things as abortion. The trouble is that some of us get very self-righteous, and we get carried away.

 I'm going to let you in on a little secret...my own mother almost killed me. She had already had one child by the time she was 16, and I was on the way when she was 17. She had no business getting pregnant in the first place, but to get pregnant again? I was the one who would potentially have paid the ultimate price for her stupidity. If she had have been married, there would have been no problem. That's one of the reasons we should listen to God, when we do it His way, we don't tend to get into these kind of predicaments.

 If no one had sex outside of marriage, there would be no AIDS or any other kind of STD.

 My mother did the right thing. She put me up for adoption, and at four days old, I was accepted into a loving, stable family. My mom and dad loved me, and I had a great childhood. When I think of all the aborted children who could have had the same, I get very sad.

There are obviously some medical reasons where abortion is required - when the mother's life is in jeopardy. We can not kill children just because they will be disabled. If that was our logic, then we could justify mass murder across the globe. Anyone, child or adult, who was disabled would be a target. That's not hoe God wants it my friend...that's how the Hitlers of the world want it.

I hope I haven't come across as antagonistic, that's not my intent. I'm honestly trying to help you see another point of view.

Bronzesnake
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2005, 01:12:12 PM »

I don't think it would be a good idea to go out and interview people born with severe disabilites and ask them if they wished they never existed.  How would you feel if someone asked you to justify your existence and usefulness to society?  What standards would you be measured against?  

Few people ever live an entire lifetime without suffering of any kind.  

Most abortions are not due to critical medical conditions such as the mother might die.  It is a rare case.  A woman going to a doctor's office and saying that she feels "depressed" about being pregnant is considered a valid "health" reason for an abortion.  

I have never heard of a married women with older children giving up a baby for adoption.  Does it ever happen?  
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Mrs.Chosen
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« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2005, 06:18:47 PM »

Hurting,
I still want to know why that is you name.
But although it is a hard pill to swallow, the woman who
abort their babies are commiting murder ans thus are murders.
They can be forgiven and no one should be cruel and scream it at them by no means.
Like because we sin, we are sinners.
But now that I am saved, I am a sinner saved by grace.
Abortion is wrong even if we think it is best because the truth is we don't know the future out come of the child.
I have seen many mentally retarded people smile and many healthy people cry.
I was going to abort my son who is now 10. I was not a believer at that time, noe was I married. I wanted no connections to my childs father. My money kept gettng tied up and I had to make 3 separate appointments.
After the 3 time I had changed my mind because the father convienced me. My son is a blessing!!!
When he was 8 months I found out I was 5 1/2 months pregnant again! I hated his father a couldn't bare having another child by him. He was a dead beat dad. So while this baby had feet, hands, a heart, a brain, ect. I killed them.
I always wanted a little girl and I think she was her. They refused to tell me even though they could make out the sex, they would not tell me, that what makes me know it must have been a girl.
No today I long to be pregnant by my husband and I can't conceive. I can't doesn't mean I don't believe that GOD can it's just that I did something (had a abortion very late in my pregnancy) that has affected me to this day. Regret, Regret, Regret.
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In Christ Jesus Love,

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« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2005, 08:39:12 PM »

Ps 103:10-12

10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.

11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.

12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.
KJV
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