I thought Iraq had no WMD's ???

[2nd Timothy]

Nuclear materials 'vanish' in Iraq

Does anyone else see the irony here?  First, the international community said Iraq was not a threat....now all of sudden they had nuclear materials that might be used by rogue states to make nuclear weapons     The UN is bating a thousand here!

 

Grace and Peace!

[Marv]

I think you maybe misread the article a little.  We aren't talking about bombs here.  They are talking about dual-use things, milling machines,  turning lathes, and high strength aluminum are specifically mentioned.   They aren't talking about weapons as such, but things that potentially could be used to make weapons.  They are followed because they could be used for nuclear weapons, but not usually banned because of their other uses.

It appears that someone has been systematically taking the facilities apart.  Since this has been happening since the invasion, we can only hope that it is some CIA program or the like.  They clearly have value and many industrial uses other than nuclear bomb making.  Many of the machines would be quite heavy and not just something you would throw in the back of a Toyota and take off.  Some was probably lost to looting during or immediately after the war, but you would think securing these known sites would have been pretty high on the list of objectives for the invasion in order to minimize looting wouldn't you think?

For some reason, the administration will not allow UN inspector into Iraq or report to UN inspectors, even though the UN resolutions calling for the inspectors are part of the justification the administration points to for the invasion.

We sold many of the dual use items to Iraq during the Reagan administration.  They even decided at that time that it was okay to sell dual use items to nuclear programs in Iraq.  During that time when we were aiding Iraq, Iraq was known to be using poisonous gas on almost a daily basis.  The US even helped Iraq equip helicopters so the pilots would be safer when applying "insecticides".

The whole thing doesn't give the US much credibility in fighting against terrorism and WMD's.  Especially since people so high up like Cheney and Rumsfeld were insturmental in arming Saddam and keeping him in power.

A real good, complete history of the whole mess can be found at the National Security archive.  http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/

I warn you, it will be very difficult to think highly of the people in power today, especially as suppossed Christians after you read the material.  If you would prefer to live happy and ignorant, just avoid the site.

Marv

[2nd Timothy]

Hi Marv,

I guess I made the point on WMD's more than the other.   I read the article right.   What I meant was, if this activity is a threat now, was not also more of a threat when Saddam was in control?   Was He not more likely to use it, or sell or whatever for no good than it being stolen for same purposes?  It just strikes me as odd that all the powers that be were not too concerned about what Saddam might have been up to, and now we have proof no WMD's or threats, but NOW, there is all of a sudden danger where there was not before.  Just seems kinda suspect to me.

Grace and Peace!

[Marv]

I believe what you are seeing is an attempt by the UN to exert itself and get back into Iraq.  They are pointing out that things which they are responsible to inspect under the UN resolutions are missing and they should be allowed to enter Iraq and attempt to trace the products.  They aren't talking nuclear materials like people think enriched uranium or plutonium they are talking machinery and materials that could be used but are not necessarily used for nuclear weapons.  For all we know, they went in the scrap metal heap that Iraq has been selling since the war.  There have been rocket engines sold for scrap which have been discovered.  Good heavy cast iron milling machine might bring $20 down at the junk yard.  Then again, it is possible that the buildings and inventory have been disassembled under US orders.  We just don't know.

Here in North Dakota, we just found a 110 lbs of sodium cyanide which fell off a truck last week.  Two other barrels fell off on the same trip but were found right away.  Turns out it was going to beekeepers to kill the bees in their colonies before moving south for the winter.  When the state started checking, turns out other beekeepers had cyanide too.  Problem is, it's not registered for that use.  It used in mining, electroplating and the like, but it turns out since those uses aren't pesticide that pretty much anyone (probably going to change now) could buy however much cyanide they wanted.  All you needed was to find a distributor that would take your money.  No registration, no liscencing, nothing.  Makes you feel safe doesn't it.  I remember when the postman used to deliver cyanide to our farm a few years ago, so it's not that big a deal to me.  But 110 lbs of sodium cyanide is enough to kill a lot of people.  If you could get them to ingest it.

Now if we had found that barrel in the ditch by Baghdad instead of Lakota, ND, USA, that would be trotted out as proof that Saddam had a real WMD program going, when maybe he just had a couple of beekeepers.

It is pretty certain that Saddam Hussein had the fewest WMD's at the time of our invasion since well back into the 80's.  That's when the chemical companies started really selling him the chemicals for making chemical weapons, and there's pretty good evidence that we provided him with some anthrax and botulism.

I'm sure Saddam would have loved to have more WMD's but the embargo and inspections have been proven to have been pretty effective.  He was stupid not to be more cooperative.

Marv

[Marv]

Oh, I forgot to answer whether these things were more of a threat when Saddam was in power.

You tell me who has them now, and I can answer.

Marv

[Bronzesnake]

Oh, I forgot to answer whether these things were more of a threat when Saddam was in power.

You tell me who has them now, and I can answer.

Marv

 Try Syria and Iran.

[Marv]

If Syria and Iran have the tools and materials, then I would say we are less safe, particularly since we no longer can follow what they are used for or inspect them.

Marv

[Sulfurdolphin]

 Israel told the USA that Iraq had moved most of there WMD to Syria and Iran and most of the WMD were probably used during the Desert Storm War in 1991 as well as hidden somewhere in the desert. Even Clinton when he was in office mentioning that Saddam had WMD.

Here is an interesting website that list the WMD that have been found recently.

Michael

[Sulfurdolphin]

 Israel told the USA that Iraq had moved most of there WMD to Syria and Iran and most of the WMD were probably used during the Desert Storm War in 1991 as well as hidden somewhere in the desert. Even Clinton when he was in office mentioning that Saddam had WMD.

Here is an interesting website that list the WMD that have been found recently.

Michael

http://www.atomicarchive.com/weblog/

[Bronzesnake]

 Israel told the USA that Iraq had moved most of there WMD to Syria and Iran and most of the WMD were probably used during the Desert Storm War in 1991 as well as hidden somewhere in the desert. Even Clinton when he was in office mentioning that Saddam had WMD.

Here is an interesting website that list the WMD that have been found recently.

Michael

http://www.atomicarchive.com/weblog/

 Thanks for the link Michael, good stuff.

 I recall watching CNN in the weeks leading up to the war, and they showed satellite images of a very long caravan of covered military trucks leaving Iraq and entering Syria. The odd thing is - I watch CNN a lot, and I only saw that imagery once, after that there was no more mention of it...not a peep.

 Bronzesnake

[2nd Timothy]

From what I am seeing, I believe the UN will probably drop the reigns of any power they currently posses(which ain't saying a whole lot).  I suspect the EU is waiting in the wings and will gladly pick up where the UN leaves off in the not so distant future.   As for the Iraqi situation, yeah its a real mess, but it still strikes me as strange how some will say they were no problem before because at least a tyrant kept things under control.  This IMO is hooey.   This is like saying evil doers have rights too, as long as they control the majority of evil doers they rule over.   Saddam is right where He should be, regardless of what happens in Iraq's future.  If sKerry wins the election Iraq will probably wind up worse off than it is, and will no doubt lay the Blame a GW's feet.

Grace and Peace!

[Bronzesnake]

From what I am seeing, I believe the UN will probably drop the reigns of any power they currently posses(which ain't saying a whole lot).  I suspect the EU is waiting in the wings and will gladly pick up where the UN leaves off in the not so distant future.   As for the Iraqi situation, yeah its a real mess, but it still strikes me as strange how some will say they were no problem before because at least a tyrant kept things under control.  This IMO is hooey.   This is like saying evil doers have rights too, as long as they control the majority of evil doers they rule over.   Saddam is right where He should be, regardless of what happens in Iraq's future.  If sKerry wins the election Iraq will probably wind up worse off than it is, and will no doubt lay the Blame a GW's feet.

Grace and Peace!

 Bush will win the election. Here in Canada, Bush took a pounding in our polls leading up to, and after the Iraq war by our week kneed GIRLY MAN liberals.

 The rhetoric has toned down somewhat as of late, but it still sickens me how cowardly our leaders are here in the Great White North. It's my honest opinion, that our government is in appeasement mode to terrorists for fear of upsetting them and being attacked if they actually convert their jelly backbones for steel. I was extremely saddened that our nation's leadership chose to turn their backs on our American brothers and sisters, who fought so gallantly beside us and our British counterparts in the two great wars, and other battles - and in your darkest hour we tucked tail and ran.  

 Our military has been shamefully ransacked and robbed of decent equipment by successive Liberal and Conservative governments for decades, just look at the crap diesel subs we foolishly bought from the British. All four subs have been in dock for years for major refit. Recently, fire broke on on the submarine "Chicoutimi" while she was at sea, and  Combat systems engineer lieutenant Chris Saunders was one of three crewmen airlifted from the submarine from the Atlantic. He subsequently died in hospital in Ireland.

 Our soldiers are highly skilled but pooly equipt.

Here's a section of a column from one of our newspapers...

 But even when they're hit with a crippling blow, somehow the Canadian Forces pulls through.
Defence critics say the glue that binds the cash-strapped military is its exceptionally trained uniformed men and women. Even their rusted-out equipment can't break their resolve to get the job done.

But only on high-profile missions such as Afghanistan do their accomplishments make headlines. Most of the time our troops toil in obscurity.

Even impressive feats close to home fail to pique the interest of Canadians. Every year Canadian soldiers strut their stuff and beat opponents in international military competitions.

Canadian snipers regularly shoot down their competition, as do Canada's fighter pilots.

In April, Royal Military College officer cadets placed second in an international field of 45 teams in the gruelling Sandhurst Competition in Britain.


 As far as the E.U. Look at their involvement in the world and for those of us who doubt it - ask yourself if this is could at least possibly be the beginning of the revived Roman Empire. Keep in mind that the E.U. began it's life through a treaty which was radified in Rome, and the origional member countries were all part of the ancient Roman Empire.

 Here is an excellent site which connects scriptures with the E.U. and the revived Roman empire.

http://www.contenderministries.org/prophecy/romanempire.php

Here are links which expose the E.U. as a world force which is steadily gaining momentum.

http://www.eusa.org.za/Content/Background/TheEUandtheWorld.html

 http://europa.eu.int/comm/world/

http://www.eurunion.org/partner/EUUSTerror/EURespUSTerror.htm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/europe/neweurope/021223_neweurope_01n249.shtml

Bronzesnake

[2nd Timothy]

Brother, I think you are right on the money about this (I also hope you are right about the election...I am starting to fear it may go the other way).   I have been watching a lot of news out of the EU and can clearly see Daniels prophecy looming on the horizon.  I hear a lot of boo hiss when I start talking about this from many brothers and sisters, but I think it will be more than evident soon enough.   The current situation in Israel (the protective wall and dissmanteling settlement, 3rd temple talk), the power struggle between the US and the EU for implementation of a peace process in Israel, the current state of US world power, even this upcomming election.   I really do believe we are on the verge of huge fulfillment of endtime prophecy.   Its time for some urgency in witnessing and sharing Gods love with a lost world.

Maranatha Lord Jesus!

[sincereheart]

[Bronzesnake]

 Standing ovation for the lady folks!!!  

Bronzesnake