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Author Topic: Calvinism--TULIP  (Read 17278 times)
joelkaki
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« on: April 12, 2003, 10:22:37 PM »

Well, since the site got wiped clear of all the intense debating on this issue, we might as well start it up again.  My proposal is to go through each of the Letters of TULIP one at a time (with some overlap obviously), debating and discussing them.
Any interested?   Grin

Joel
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2003, 07:50:04 AM »

Well, since the site got wiped clear of all the intense debating on this issue, we might as well start it up again.  My proposal is to go through each of the Letters of TULIP one at a time (with some overlap obviously), debating and discussing them.
Any interested?   Grin

Joel

ZZZZZZZZZZZZ  Grin
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oholiab
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2003, 10:35:45 AM »

I dont really remember what they all are. Total depravity, unlimited grace, limited atonement, predestination. Its been a while since I actually discussed calvinism, so count me in.
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« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2003, 07:10:37 PM »

T is for "Total Depravity" which according to Calvinists means that no one can respond to the Gospel unless they are made to respond by the Holy Spirit because they are one of the Elect.

This is not what the Bible teaches. The Holy Spirit convicts the world (sinful humanity) of sin, convinces the world of Christ's righteousness, and reveals to the world the judgement of sin (John 16:8-11). At the same time the preaching of the Gospel and the hearing of God's Word generate faith in the heart of the sinner (Romans 10:6-15; 1 Pet. 1:23-25).

All are invited to Christ (Isa. 55:1-3; Jn. 3:14-21; 35; Rev. 22:17) but only those who believe, repent and receive Christ are saved.  Christ died for the world, and came to save the world, but all will not be saved. That is not because God does not choose them but they do no choose Christ.
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Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father, and Jesus Christ our Lord. 1 Timothy 1:2
asaph
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2003, 03:45:34 AM »

I invite my Calvinist friends to check out this site:

http://www.crisispub.com/calvinism/

While I do not condone their somewhat harsh treatment of Calvinists, neither do I agree with all of their conclusions, they do bring out some strong arguments. Read intellectually not emotionally.


asaph
« Last Edit: April 14, 2003, 04:13:32 AM by asaph » Logged
asaph
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2003, 04:00:55 AM »

True or False

A man is not saved because he believes in Christ; he believes in Christ because he is saved. Loraine Boettner

asaph
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asaph
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2003, 04:03:38 AM »

True or False

A man is not regenerated because he has first believed in Christ, but he believes in Christ because he has been regenerated. Arthur W. Pink

asaph
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asaph
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2003, 04:06:53 AM »

True or False

We do not believe in order to be born again; we are born again that we may believe. R. C. Sproul

asaph
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joelkaki
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2003, 01:53:47 PM »

Quote
True or False

We do not believe in order to be born again; we are born again that we may believe. R. C. Sproul

True.  You can't make yourself be born again.  It is an act of God, thereby generating belief in your heart. (John 1:13)

Quote
True or False

A man is not regenerated because he has first believed in Christ, but he believes in Christ because he has been regenerated. Arthur W. Pink

True.  Regeneration must necessarily precede faith.  Men are dead in sin, and dead men cannot choose to become alive.  It requires the divine act of regeneration to produce faith. (Eph 2:1-10)

Quote
True or False

A man is not saved because he believes in Christ; he believes in Christ because he is saved. Loraine Boettner

I'm not so sure about this one.  I get his basic point, but I disagree with how he says that.  I would say more that yes, you are saved by faith alone, but that faith is the gift of God, thus you must first have the divine initiative in salvation in order to have that faith.

Here is TULIP:

Total Depravity
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement
Irresistible Grace
Perserverance of the Saints

I'll be back with more.


Joel

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asaph
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2003, 02:09:36 PM »

True or False

This effectual call is of Gods free and special grace alone, not from anything at all foreseen in man; who is altogether passive therein, until, being quickened and renewed by the Holy Spirit, he is thereby enabled to answer this call, and to embrace the grace offered and conveyed in it. The Westminster Confession of Faith

If true, is this grace irresistable? Does the word "until" mean that once he is quickened he is no longer passive? And does this mean that renewal comes before faith?

asaph
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asaph
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2003, 02:22:16 PM »

True or False

Mark 16:16
The one having believed (pisteusas) and having been baptized will be saved (sōthēsetai); but the one not having believed (apistēsas) will be condemned to eternal death (katakpithēsetai)o` pisteu,saj kai. baptisqei.j swqh,setai( o` de. avpisth,saj katakriqh,setaiŔ

Time elements cannot be denied. Tense affirms both time and kind of action. Further, pisteusas (will be saved) and apistēsas (not having believed) are words of the same tense, etc. Both are aorists, both are active; in both the person did something, one to be saved, and the other to be lost. Whether in belief or unbelief, the intellect, volition, and will are engaged. Likewise, the results of these attitudes affect the total person and destiny itself. The results of engagement are sōthēsetai (will be saved) and katakpithēsetai (will be condemned to eternal death). These terms are of exactly the same grammatical construction. Both are verbs in the active voice; both are revelatory of destiny based on the action of the person. Both reveal the response of God based on the action of the person. God never saved the believer apart from his action anymore than He damned the unbeliever apart from his action of unbelief. God saves because of action in which the will is engaged; God condemns eternally because of action in which the will is engaged. Thus, neither the saved nor the lost were irresistibly consigned to their state from eternity by God. Both classes, the saved and lost, are thus because of the manner in which they responded to God.

Taken from: http://www.crisispub.com/calvinism/

asaph

« Last Edit: April 14, 2003, 02:27:32 PM by asaph » Logged
Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2003, 02:23:24 PM »

I invite my Calvinist friends to check out this site:

http://www.crisispub.com/calvinism/

While I do not condone their somewhat harsh treatment of Calvinists, neither do I agree with all of their conclusions, they do bring out some strong arguments. Read intellectually not emotionally.


asaph

Thanks asaph, good site  Grin
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Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2003, 02:24:40 PM »

True or False

“A man is not saved because he believes in Christ; he believes in Christ because he is saved.” Loraine Boettner

asaph

FALSE  Grin
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Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2003, 02:25:51 PM »

True or False

“A man is not regenerated because he has first believed in Christ, but he believes in Christ because he has been regenerated.” Arthur W. Pink

asaph

FALSE  Grin
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Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2003, 02:27:02 PM »

True or False

“We do not believe in order to be born again; we are born again that we may believe.” R. C. Sproul

asaph

FALSE  Grin
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