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Question: IS Matthew, Mark,  Luke  and John in the New Testament
YES - 11 (68.8%)
NO - 4 (25%)
NOT SURE - 1 (6.3%)
MAYBE - 0 (0%)
SOME PARTS - 0 (0%)
Total Voters: 14

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Author Topic: IS Matthew Mark Luke and John in the New  (Read 15220 times)
Reba
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« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2004, 03:18:50 PM »

Iin the words of Hitch  



LOL
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Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2004, 04:49:50 PM »

IS Matthew, Mark,  Luke  and John in the New Testament

Please give reason for your answer

BigD responds:
The gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are a continuation of the Old Testament.

A "testament" is a "covenant."

In Matthew 26:27,28 Jesus spoke of the His blood of the new testament (covenant).

The first covenant was made with the nation of Israel, and God made a promise with Isreal if they would keep that covenant they would become  "a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation" (see Exodus 19:5,6).

We can also find reference to that covenant in Hebrews 8:7-13. Verse 8 speaks of the "new covenant" (testament) which was prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34. That "new covenant" (testament) is with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Being Israel has been set aside temporarily, that makes the old covenant (testament) uninforceable. The new covenant (testament) is still not in effect. Therefore, we find ourselves living in an unprophesied period (parenthetical) between the two covenants (testaments). It is know as "the dispensation of grace",  "the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began."

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

Amen BigD
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« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2004, 04:51:19 PM »

Gen 6:17-18

17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
KJV

Gen 9:15-17

15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
KJV

BigD responds:
The covenant that God made wit Noah after the flood was a covenant that was fulfilled.

The Old Covenant that God spake unto Moses is for the nation of Israel and yet to be fulfilled. Israel is set aside and there for that covenant is not in force.

Jesus was speaking of the New Covenant in Matthew 26 that will be with the nation of Israel and, as yet has not been fulfilled. It will be fulfilled when Jesus establishes His Kingdom here upon the earth. That will fulfill the prophesy of Jeremiah 31 that I mentioned earlier.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

Amen again BigD
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Reba
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« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2004, 05:13:28 PM »

The covenant with Israel was not the first covenant as you have stated.
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BigD
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« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2004, 05:57:37 PM »

The covenant with Israel was not the first covenant as you have stated.

BigD responds:
I don't recall saying that the covenant with Israel was the first covenant that God made,

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
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Reba
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« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2004, 06:46:25 PM »

IS Matthew, Mark,  Luke  and John in the New Testament

Please give reason for your answer

BigD responds:
The gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are a continuation of the Old Testament.

A "testament" is a "covenant."

In Matthew 26:27,28 Jesus spoke of the His blood of the new testament (covenant).

The first covenant was made with the nation of Israel, and God made a promise with Isreal if they would keep that covenant they would become  "a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation" (see Exodus 19:5,6).

We can also find reference to that covenant in Hebrews 8:7-13. Verse 8 speaks of the "new covenant" (testament) which was prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34. That "new covenant" (testament) is with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Being Israel has been set aside temporarily, that makes the old covenant (testament) uninforceable. The new covenant (testament) is still not in effect. Therefore, we find ourselves living in an unprophesied period (parenthetical) between the two covenants (testaments). It is know as "the dispensation of grace",  "the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began."

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

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BigD
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« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2004, 07:12:59 PM »

Reba:
THANKS for pointing out the fact that I didn't make myself clear to you. Forgive me.

When I said: "The first covenant was made with the nation of Israel, and God made a promise with Isreal if they would keep that covenant they would become  "a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation" (see Exodus 19:5,6)." I had the context of Hebrews 8 in mind, and trying to show that the "new covenant" was to replace the "old covenant" that was made with Isreal back in Exodus 19.

I was also aware of the fact that God made an unconditional covenant with Abram in Genisis 12:1-3. That covenant is yet unfulfilled also.

I'll try to do better next time.

God Bless.
Live well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
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Reba
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« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2004, 08:12:08 PM »

Gen 17:14

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
KJV



 Sounds a bit conditional to me, Could man break an unconditional covenant?
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Reba
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« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2004, 08:17:06 PM »

Sheesh ...Big D you got the hic-cups ?

 Smiley


The boards are being weird   Tongue


Come to think of it they have been weird sense Dreamweaver turned BLUE  Grin
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Reba
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« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2004, 08:26:19 PM »

Gen 15:18

18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
KJV

Josh 21:43-45

43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.

45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
KJV
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BigD
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« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2004, 08:04:48 AM »

Gen 17:14

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
KJV

Reba:
I find no requirement for a member of the Body of Christ to be circumcised. It is Abraham's seed (Israel) that was required to be circumcised. However, God is not dealing with Israel during this dispensation of grace.

God Bless.
Love Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord.

 Sounds a bit conditional to me, Could man break an unconditional covenant?
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Reba
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« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2004, 09:36:11 AM »

Gen 17:14

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
KJV

Reba:
I find no requirement for a member of the Body of Christ to be circumcised. It is Abraham's seed (Israel) that was required to be circumcised. However, God is not dealing with Israel during this dispensation of grace.

God Bless.
Love Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord.

 Sounds a bit conditional to me, Could man break an unconditional covenant?

Big D you said    "I was also aware of the fact that God made an unconditional covenant with Abram in Genisis 12:1-3. That covenant is yet unfulfilled also."

 Yet Gen 17:14 is very much a condition.


I said nothing about the Body of Christ, why the implication? You state the covenant wiht Abe is uncondidional yet you also state  Abes seed  had to be circumcised. A requirement is a condition.

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BigD
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« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2004, 10:38:41 AM »

Reba:
God's original covenant with Abram in Genesis was unconditional. That the world would be blessed through his seed Israel.

When God required Abraham to be circumcised, it did not change the original covenant but added a condition to it. It meant that Abraham's seed had to now be circumcised or "be cut off forever." The Sabbath Day requirement was also added later.

When God gave Laws to Moses, it did not change the original covenant but added still more conditions to it. The original covenat is still left unfulfilled.

The old covenant to Abram seed Israel is now null and void while the nation of Israel is in a "set aside" state. "...until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written. There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant, when I shall take away their sin" (Rms11:25-27).

The old original covenant with Abram will be fulfilled when the Chruch, the Body of Christ is raptured to heaven. God will then again deal with Abram's seed Israel, and Israel will again be under the Law.

However, Israel will still have to go through the Tribulation that started in Acts 2: 15-20, and was interrupted when God set the nation of Israel aside after the stoning of Stephen. At the end of the Tribulation; Christ will return to establish His Kingdom and Jeremiah 31:31-34, the "new covenant" will be then take place. Jesus said in Matthew 26:29 "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, UNTIL THAT DAY WHEN I DRINK IT NEW WITH YOU IN MY FATHER'S KINGDOM."

Maybe this will help clarify my position somewhat.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
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Reba
Guest
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2004, 11:07:58 AM »

Reba:
God's original covenant with Abram in Genesis was unconditional. That the world would be blessed through his seed Israel.

When God required Abraham to be circumcised, it did not change the original covenant but added a condition to it. It meant that Abraham's seed had to now be circumcised or "be cut off forever." The Sabbath Day requirement was also added later.

When God gave Laws to Moses, it did not change the original covenant but added still more conditions to it. The original covenat is still left unfulfilled.

The old covenant to Abram seed Israel is now null and void while the nation of Israel is in a "set aside" state. "...until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written. There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant, when I shall take away their sin" (Rms11:25-27).

The old original covenant with Abram will be fulfilled when the Chruch, the Body of Christ is raptured to heaven. God will then again deal with Abram's seed Israel, and Israel will again be under the Law.

However, Israel will still have to go through the Tribulation that started in Acts 2: 15-20, and was interrupted when God set the nation of Israel aside after the stoning of Stephen. At the end of the Tribulation; Christ will return to establish His Kingdom and Jeremiah 31:31-34, the "new covenant" will be then take place. Jesus said in Matthew 26:29 "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, UNTIL THAT DAY WHEN I DRINK IT NEW WITH YOU IN MY FATHER'S KINGDOM."

Maybe this will help clarify my position somewhat.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
Quote

Reba:
God's original covenant with Abram in Genesis was unconditional. That the world would be blessed through his seed Israel.

When God required Abraham to be circumcised, it did not change the original covenant but added a condition to it. It meant that Abraham's seed had to now be circumcised or "be cut off forever." The Sabbath Day requirement was also added later.
It did not change the covenant but added a condition to it? That is double talk. If as you say the covenant is/was unconditional adding a condition is a surly a change.


Quote
When God gave Laws to Moses, it did not change the original covenant but added still more conditions to it. The original covenat is still left unfulfilled.

The old covenant to Abram seed Israel is now null and void while the nation of Israel is in a "set aside" state. "...until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written. There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant, when I shall take away their sin" (Rms11:25-27).
If the covenant is null and void it is no longer a covanent. Also to render the covenant null and void again speeks of conditions or it would still be viable.  

Quote
The old original covenant with Abram will be fulfilled when the Chruch, the Body of Christ is raptured to heaven. God will then again deal with Abram's seed Israel, and Israel will again be under the Law.
Do you see how this statement make the Cross of our Lord Jesus of no value. There are how many salvations, Only the cross.

Heb 5:9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
KJV

Quote
However, Israel will still have to go through the Tribulation that started in Acts 2: 15-20, and was interrupted when God set the nation of Israel aside after the stoning of Stephen. At the end of the Tribulation; Christ will return to establish His Kingdom and Jeremiah 31:31-34, the "new covenant" will be then take place. Jesus said in Matthew 26:29 "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, UNTIL THAT DAY WHEN I DRINK IT NEW WITH YOU IN MY FATHER'S KINGDOM."

Maybe this will help clarify my position somewhat.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

The position I understand I spent over 40 years under dispensational teaching. Let me pose a few questions for your last paragraph.

You say Israel will go through the trib…

What is Israel? What makes a person an Israeli?  Is it the ‘natural blood? As in DNA.  How much Israeli DNA is needed to say one is an Israeli? Does one have to be born in Israel are the Jews of New York, Florida, Israelis?  How does the blood of one parents lead to salvation? When we know salvation is His Cross.

You say the Israel will be under the law. Do you really believe after God sent Jesus to the Cross HE will again accept the blood of bulls and goats?

Heb 10:4-10

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
KJV

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Shammu
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« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2004, 03:43:44 PM »

Sheesh ...Big D you got the hic-cups ?

 Smiley


The boards are being weird   Tongue


Come to think of it they have been weird sense Dreamweaver turned BLUE  Grin
Thanks blame me........... This is the first time I have been back to this thread, since I became blue Cry
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