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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
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Author Topic: Faith and Works ?  (Read 12821 times)
nChrist
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« Reply #105 on: September 26, 2004, 10:32:56 PM »

Silver Surfer,

Jesus Christ unlocked the door to your prison cell. All you have to do is realize the door is unlocked and come out.

Love In Christ,
Tom
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« Reply #106 on: September 26, 2004, 11:49:13 PM »

Silver Surfer,

Jesus Christ unlocked the door to your prison cell. All you have to do is realize the door is unlocked and come out.

Love In Christ,
Tom
"Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.  
  119:166   LORD, I have hoped for thy salvation, and done thy commandments".  (Psalms 119:165).
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« Reply #107 on: September 27, 2004, 12:18:21 AM »

Silver Surfer,

Jesus Christ unlocked the door to your prison cell. All you have to do is realize the door is unlocked and come out.

Love In Christ,
Tom
"Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.  
  119:166   LORD, I have hoped for thy salvation, and done thy commandments".  (Psalms 119:165).
But without, Grace you don't have salvation SS. Salvation is the only way to the Father. I have my salvation, I follow the laws as best as I can. Even Jesus knows not everyone can follow the laws 100%. Do you follow the laws 100% SS?
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« Reply #108 on: September 27, 2004, 07:47:22 AM »

Silver Surfer,

Jesus Christ unlocked the door to your prison cell. All you have to do is realize the door is unlocked and come out.

Love In Christ,
Tom
"Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.  
  119:166   LORD, I have hoped for thy salvation, and done thy commandments".  (Psalms 119:165).
But without, Grace you don't have salvation SS. Salvation is the only way to the Father. I have my salvation, I follow the laws as best as I can. Even Jesus knows not everyone can follow the laws 100%.
"Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus", (Revelation 14:12)  
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« Reply #109 on: September 27, 2004, 11:11:52 AM »

Silver Surfer,

Jesus Christ unlocked the door to your prison cell. All you have to do is realize the door is unlocked and come out.

Love In Christ,
Tom
"Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.  
  119:166   LORD, I have hoped for thy salvation, and done thy commandments".  (Psalms 119:165).
But without, Grace you don't have salvation SS. Salvation is the only way to the Father. I have my salvation, I follow the laws as best as I can. Even Jesus knows not everyone can follow the laws 100%.
"Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus", (Revelation 14:12)  
You didn't answer the question SS.
Quote
Do you follow the laws 100% SS?
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oneBook
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« Reply #110 on: September 28, 2004, 02:20:48 AM »

Hey musicllover-

Here are some further thoughts...

Quote
I understand your parable, at the same time, no carnal man did what Jesus did. And Jesus did "it" so all people would have a way into heaven.

The parable is not to say that a man can do what Jesus did, but to point out that when Jesus took us as his bride, He does have some things that He asks of us.  He has preferences as far as days he wants us to remember.  He doesn't do it so that we can earn our keep, but to celebrate the relationship He paid for with His own blood.

Quote
God doesn't have a scale

actually, He does, and on one side is each and every sin that a person commits, and on the other is the Lamb that was slain.  If He didn't have the scale, then His Son would not have had to die.

Quote
And I'm saying that the day is a man appointed day......yes I understand the to observe the Sabbath is a divine direction. Christians began meeting on the first day of the week to separate themselves from the Jews, they were fearful they would be killed like Jesus

So which is it?  If it is divine direction, it is not a man appointed day.  In fact, when God created the world, he set the stars and moon in place to mark when the festivals (Sabbaths) happen-

Gen. 1:14
Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night. They will serve as signs for festivals and for days and years.

Some English Bibles translate the word "festivals" as "seasons", but in Hebrew the word is "Moedim", and is the same one used of the festivals throughout the OT (including the Sabbath).


Now if you really want to put Silver on the ropes, ask him if he keeps the other festivals (SDAs don't typically) Wink  
(Silver, do you keep all the festivals and Sabbaths?)

Additionally, when the "Jews" are mentioned in the NT, it is not referring to all Jews (otherwise the disciples would have separated from themseleves, and Jesus ), it is referring to the leadership and Sanhedrin in Jerusalem.  Remember that they wanted to get rid of Jesus because they didn't like that he was held as the Messiah by the majority of the Jews.  They were afraid to touch Him because of His and John's popularity-

Luke 20:5-8
 5 They reasoned among themselves, saying, "If we say, `From heaven,' He will say, `Why did you not believe him?' 6 "But if we say, `From men,' all the people will stone us to death, for they are convinced that John was a prophet."  7 So they answered that they did not know where it came from. 8 And Jesus said to them, "Nor willI tell you by what authority I do these things."

Luke 20:19
 19 The scribes and the chief priests tried to lay hands on Him that very hour, and they feared the people; for they understood that He spoke this parable against them.

And to address once again, they did meet on the first day in some places, but they were still meeting on the Sabbath as well and setting that day apart.  Paul is always going to synagogue etc.  Also interesting is that in Greek when it says "first day" it actually says "the first day from the Sabbath".  They still numbered all their days from the Sabbath.


And I don't think I can say this enough since it can be easy to lump all Sabbath keepers together-
I DON'T BELIEVE SUNDAY CHRISTIANS ARE GOING TO HELL
I DON'T BELIEVE YOU CAN BE SAVED BY KEEPING THE LAW
I WILL NOT SHOOT SPITWADS AT THE TEACHER... (oops, grade school flashback  Wink )

I do believe that in keeping the commandments there is great reward
Psalm 19:7
 7 The law of the LORD is perfect, restoring the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. 8 The precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever; The judgments of the LORD are true; they are righteous altogether. 10 They are more desirable than gold, yes, than much fine gold; Sweeter also than honey and the drippings of the honeycomb. 11 Moreover, by them Your servant is warned; In keeping them there is great reward.

I press the subject because I love the Sabbath of the Lord, and I hope that all the world will know Sabbath peace someday.

Quote
Sunday worship will NOT send anyone to hell, not even no worship will do that......BUT  not knowing who Jesus is will

Not worshipping God WILL send you to hell, although I think when you said worship, you meant "singing in church", not "serving God".
I think people use the term worship incorrectly (as far as the Bible goes).  They usually mean praise (which would be singing or reciting) when they say worship, but that is limiting worship from it's rightful sense.  This may also explain why you mentioned in your post that Jesus did healing, etc. on every day.  I agree He did, but that has no bearing what-so-ever on the Sabbath day issue.  Perhaps a clarification on what sanctification is would help.  Sanctify means to make holy, to set apart.  To make holy is to make something the way God says to.  If you do what God says, it sanctifies what you are doing.  I.E. if you cease from working on the Sabbath and spend time with your family and faith community, then you are causing the day to fulfill the purpose it was intended for by God, and that glorifies God who sanctified it in the first place (set it apart for meeting with Him).  The Tabernacle and Temple had the same thing going on, when the priests obeyed God, the Temple became holy (sanctified by God's word obeyed), and God promised to dwell among Israel. When they desecrated the Temple (did things God prohibited, or didn't do things God commanded) then God wouldn't dwell with them.  

Let's see what Silver has to say about the other Sabbaths... Silver?

Blessings on you and yours-
oneBook
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musicllover
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« Reply #111 on: September 28, 2004, 08:34:41 PM »

Hey musicllover-

Here are some further thoughts...

Quote
I understand your parable, at the same time, no carnal man did what Jesus did. And Jesus did "it" so all people would have a way into heaven.

The parable is not to say that a man can do what Jesus did, but to point out that when Jesus took us as his bride, He does have some things that He asks of us.  He has preferences as far as days he wants us to remember.  He doesn't do it so that we can earn our keep, but to celebrate the relationship He paid for with His own blood.

Quote
God doesn't have a scale

actually, He does, and on one side is each and every sin that a person commits, and on the other is the Lamb that was slain.  If He didn't have the scale, then His Son would not have had to die.

Quote
And I'm saying that the day is a man appointed day......yes I understand the to observe the Sabbath is a divine direction. Christians began meeting on the first day of the week to separate themselves from the Jews, they were fearful they would be killed like Jesus

So which is it?  If it is divine direction, it is not a man appointed day.  In fact, when God created the world, he set the stars and moon in place to mark when the festivals (Sabbaths) happen-

Gen. 1:14
Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night. They will serve as signs for festivals and for days and years.

Some English Bibles translate the word "festivals" as "seasons", but in Hebrew the word is "Moedim", and is the same one used of the festivals throughout the OT (including the Sabbath).


Now if you really want to put Silver on the ropes, ask him if he keeps the other festivals (SDAs don't typically) Wink  
(Silver, do you keep all the festivals and Sabbaths?)

Additionally, when the "Jews" are mentioned in the NT, it is not referring to all Jews (otherwise the disciples would have separated from themseleves, and Jesus ), it is referring to the leadership and Sanhedrin in Jerusalem.  Remember that they wanted to get rid of Jesus because they didn't like that he was held as the Messiah by the majority of the Jews.  They were afraid to touch Him because of His and John's popularity-

Luke 20:5-8
 5 They reasoned among themselves, saying, "If we say, `From heaven,' He will say, `Why did you not believe him?' 6 "But if we say, `From men,' all the people will stone us to death, for they are convinced that John was a prophet."  7 So they answered that they did not know where it came from. 8 And Jesus said to them, "Nor willI tell you by what authority I do these things."

Luke 20:19
 19 The scribes and the chief priests tried to lay hands on Him that very hour, and they feared the people; for they understood that He spoke this parable against them.

And to address once again, they did meet on the first day in some places, but they were still meeting on the Sabbath as well and setting that day apart.  Paul is always going to synagogue etc.  Also interesting is that in Greek when it says "first day" it actually says "the first day from the Sabbath".  They still numbered all their days from the Sabbath.


And I don't think I can say this enough since it can be easy to lump all Sabbath keepers together-
I DON'T BELIEVE SUNDAY CHRISTIANS ARE GOING TO HELL
I DON'T BELIEVE YOU CAN BE SAVED BY KEEPING THE LAW
I WILL NOT SHOOT SPITWADS AT THE TEACHER... (oops, grade school flashback  Wink )

I do believe that in keeping the commandments there is great reward
Psalm 19:7
 7 The law of the LORD is perfect, restoring the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. 8 The precepts of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart; The commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring forever; The judgments of the LORD are true; they are righteous altogether. 10 They are more desirable than gold, yes, than much fine gold; Sweeter also than honey and the drippings of the honeycomb. 11 Moreover, by them Your servant is warned; In keeping them there is great reward.

I press the subject because I love the Sabbath of the Lord, and I hope that all the world will know Sabbath peace someday.

Quote
Sunday worship will NOT send anyone to hell, not even no worship will do that......BUT  not knowing who Jesus is will

Not worshipping God WILL send you to hell, although I think when you said worship, you meant "singing in church", not "serving God".
I think people use the term worship incorrectly (as far as the Bible goes).  They usually mean praise (which would be singing or reciting) when they say worship, but that is limiting worship from it's rightful sense.  This may also explain why you mentioned in your post that Jesus did healing, etc. on every day.  I agree He did, but that has no bearing what-so-ever on the Sabbath day issue.  Perhaps a clarification on what sanctification is would help.  Sanctify means to make holy, to set apart.  To make holy is to make something the way God says to.  If you do what God says, it sanctifies what you are doing.  I.E. if you cease from working on the Sabbath and spend time with your family and faith community, then you are causing the day to fulfill the purpose it was intended for by God, and that glorifies God who sanctified it in the first place (set it apart for meeting with Him).  The Tabernacle and Temple had the same thing going on, when the priests obeyed God, the Temple became holy (sanctified by God's word obeyed), and God promised to dwell among Israel. When they desecrated the Temple (did things God prohibited, or didn't do things God commanded) then God wouldn't dwell with them.  

Let's see what Silver has to say about the other Sabbaths... Silver?

Blessings on you and yours-
oneBook

One book,
            I found some scriptures that I want to share.
      I mention a teaching that I'd heard several years ago, about Christians seperating themselves and part of that seperations was to worship on Sunday. They did seperate themselves, AFTER Christ assention. There was already several diff kind of Jewish beliefs for lack of a better word. As you said the Pharasees, Sanhdrin ect ect...... And then you have the followers of Christ.
     
   There can be little doubt for anyone reading this thread that Believer in Jesus CHrist were the underdogs at this time.  Rome could have cared less, killing anyone was a sport to them reguardless of there name or faith, and the Pharasees, felt they had gotten rid of the ring leader and wanted to do away with the rest of his cohorts. Meeting in secret, meeting in private homes, and sneeking around was not ususual. The name Christian didn't come up unti Act 11:26, and means believers in Jesus Christ, other names, THe way, believers, children of God, Children of Light, and a million others found through out the NT, Act 5:14, Rom 7:1 Chirstians are called brethern, to Rev 1:6 where christians are referred to as Priests.
      But I am glad that you still maintain that Believing in Jesus is the idea not what day you go to church on.
     You asked a question ......which is it, divine direction or man appointed......both, a teacher might tell her students to write there names on the tops of their papers. Some write it in the top left the best friends group, others write in the top right,...... are any of these kids disobeying NO....sure the teacher could correct the children, but she/he sees the children doing what they were told, although maynot the the best way. And she still grades the papers put a star on the top and hands it back to the child.
 
   I await Silvers answer to your question, but I believe he has been asked this before and has failed to answer.....so I aint holding my breath. Blue is a good color for jeans not my face...well unless I'm a smurf... Tongue
la la la lalal lalallallalalla Grin
blessings
musicllover
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musicllover
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« Reply #112 on: September 29, 2004, 04:21:09 AM »

Silver Surfer, By placing your faith in Christís shed blood and nothing else, you can have eternal life.  Isnít today a good day to place your faith in Christ?  There will never be a better time.  In fact, there is no guarantee of another day. Trust Christ today.  

<Smiley))><  
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THINGS THAT DIFFER By C.R. Stam
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http://www.geocities.com/protestantscot/ttd/ttd_chap1.html

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« Reply #113 on: September 29, 2004, 05:39:35 PM »

Silver-

I have mostly been chating with musicllover, but I was wondering, what are you doing on the Sabbath tomorrow?  It is the first day of the feast of booths and I was wondering if you are doing something, and if so, what?

-oneBook
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oneBook
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« Reply #114 on: September 29, 2004, 05:59:55 PM »

musicllover-

Quote
a teacher might tell her students to write there names on the tops of their papers. Some write it in the top left the best friends group, others write in the top right,...... are any of these kids disobeying NO....sure the teacher could correct the children, but she/he sees the children doing what they were told, although maynot the the best way. And she still grades the papers put a star on the top and hands it back to the child.

Well, I would say the teacher said to put the name on the top left, and some of the students told other students to put it on the left. Thoses that listened to their peers and not the teacher won't get stars. The teacher isn't going to kick them out of class for that, but teach them the correct side.

Peace and blessings, may God dwell fully in our lives at this time of Sukkot.

-oneBook
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musicllover
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« Reply #115 on: September 30, 2004, 05:58:29 PM »

musicllover-

Quote
a teacher might tell her students to write there names on the tops of their papers. Some write it in the top left the best friends group, others write in the top right,...... are any of these kids disobeying NO....sure the teacher could correct the children, but she/he sees the children doing what they were told, although maynot the the best way. And she still grades the papers put a star on the top and hands it back to the child.

Well, I would say the teacher said to put the name on the top left, and some of the students told other students to put it on the left. Thoses that listened to their peers and not the teacher won't get stars. The teacher isn't going to kick them out of class for that, but teach them the correct side.

Peace and blessings, may God dwell fully in our lives at this time of Sukkot.

-oneBook

LOL........ that is possilbe, but as a teachers aid, and going to be teacher usually the teacher will tell the students to put there names on the top right, BUT not always. In collage all the necessary name date, instructor goes on the top left......so maybe its the higher educated that sign on the left  Grin. In my case then I have had my name on both sides, that way I'll have my bases all covered....either way I am just thankful that I can have my name on the paper,  Cheesy

blessings,
musicllover
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musicllover
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