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Ambassador4Christ
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« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2003, 02:46:51 PM »

Ephesians1:4-6. 'Just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world-having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself.'

This simply means that God being sovereign, all powerful and all knowing, brings to pass what His great foreknowledge already knew would happen. Therefore what He knew ,He chose beforehand to happen. So it is that effective exercise of the will of God by which things before determined by Him are brought to pass. Rom.8:29-39.

When God chooses He doesn't make mistakes for He not only chose you to be saved but to be conformed to the image of His Son. " For it is God who is at work in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Philippians. 2:13. Isn't it wonderful to know that having trusted in Christ we are not left to our own resources.

God's salvation is a total package. 2 Corinthians.1:10. " Who delivered us from so great a death [spiritual separation from God ] and does deliver us [ from the present power of sin] in whom we trust that He will still deliver us. [from this present evil world .]

UPHELD -UNITED - CHOSEN

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« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2003, 04:33:09 PM »

Sean, to many twists and turns Bro. Christ died"FOR"our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3). Thats ALL sins, Past, Present and Future. I dont agree with you on some of your points, but thats OK  Grin

Yes, that's ok.  So lets talk about it.  What part don't you agree with?  Are you saying that everyone is automatically saved?
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« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2003, 05:05:30 PM »

Matthew 6:
14   For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
15   But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.

Matthew 7:
1   "Do not judge so that you will not be judged.
2   "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.
3   "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
4   "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?
5   "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Not everyone that claims Jesus is Lord will be saved:

Matthew 7:
13   "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14   "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
---
19   "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20   "So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21   "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22   "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23   "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Here are those that performed miracles in Jesus name and call Jesus Lord and are still not saved.  Why?  Because they did not do the will of the Father.

Matthew 7:
24   "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.
25   "And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock.
26   "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.
27   "The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell--and great was its fall."

Jesus doesn't say to hear him and believe and you automatically get saved, but those who hear his words and act on them will be saved.  But if you hear his words and continue to live in sin with the attitude that your sins are covered anyway, you will not be saved.

Matthew 13:
20   "The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;
21   yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away.
22   "And the one on whom seed was sown among the thorns, this is the man who hears the word, and the worry of the world and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
23   "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who indeed bears fruit and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty."

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« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2003, 06:42:33 PM »

I'm not some great teacher or very well taught in the scriptures but if I may I would like to ask a simple minded question of those who say that you can forfit your salvation.

First question:
If it is called eternal life and it is a free gift, and all Good gifts come from God the Father and we are given for an example the Family and we being evil know how to give good gifts to our child and in no way would a loving Father ever take a gift from His child even if the child is a little, or even a big hoodlum/sinner how can it still be called a free gift of eternal life if it only may last for a season on this side of eternity and then because the child did some things wrong and even hated the Father who's love is unconditional and is in no way based upon the feelings of the disobeident child, How can it be called eternal if it is actually tempoary life and the Father who knows all, gave this tempoary life to this child, and all the time made believe that it was eternal when in fact He allready knew that it was not eternal and it was tempoary life then eternal Death?

second question:
How can you lose eternal life?



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« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2003, 07:57:24 AM »

Hey early I think you should have just stuck with the second question.   Grin  It says the same thing in a lot less words.


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« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2003, 10:49:02 AM »

Oklahoma Howdy to Early57,

I enjoyed your post. I think you described the real beauty, love, and power of the Gospel of God's Grace. The gift is free, undeserved, and eternal, All by the Matchless Grace of God.
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« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2003, 12:51:16 PM »

It is disheartening to see so many Christians today do not have assurance of salvation.

Living in fear that any day they could either fail enough, turn back to their old ways or somehow blaspheme the Holy Spirit, and thereby loose their salvation. Most churches are afraid to preach assurance for fear that their members would think it gave them a license to sin. This way of thinking makes a mockery of God's grace and the liberty to which Christ has set us free. Galations.5:13. Romans.6:1&2

One of the most frequent arguments is that, "I chose to become a Christian so I can choose to turn my back on God." First of all, God chose you, [ No 7 above] you simply responded to the love that He demonstrated. Secondly, whatever way you turn God's everlasting arms are always there and as your loving Father He is guarding caring, helping or chasening you through every sin or problem that this life can bring.

The only way to blaspheme against or deny the Holy Spirit is to reject Christ as Saviour and only an unbeliever is capable of this.

What sin was big enough that Christ's death on the cross could not take away? Obviously none! So there is none big enough now to separate us from His love.

You say, But I know someone that was a Christian and now they couldn't possibly be.

The Lord even said, "Some will say to me in that day, Lord ! Lord ! did I not do all these wonderful things in your name and He will say I never knew you." Notice the Lord did not say that He knew them once but not now. Who are we to judge if a person is or ever was born again. We can be sure about many Christians by their life and testimony but we must be aware that there are many good people professing to be Christians who do not confess Christ as Lord. We must also admit that we all still sin, so who are we to judge how much sin another may commit and by the grace of God still be a child of God.

There are many other Bible verses and excuses that some have problems with but if we keep them all in the light of the above seven points we will trust God and His Word and give no place for doubts and distrust.

John .5:24 . Truly truly I say unto you, He who hears my Word and believes on Him who sent Me HAS EVERLASTING LIFE and SHALL NOT come into judgement but HAS PASSED from death to life. WHAT A PROMISE ! LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR !

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« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2003, 05:35:41 PM »

There are many other Bible verses and excuses that some have problems with but if we keep them all in the light of the above seven points we will trust God and His Word and give no place for doubts and distrust.

John .5:24 . Truly truly I say unto you, He who hears my Word and believes on Him who sent Me HAS EVERLASTING LIFE and SHALL NOT come into judgement but HAS PASSED from death to life. WHAT A PROMISE ! LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR !

Oklahoma Howdy to Ambassador4Christ,

It is fairly easy to become confused with certain portions of Scripture. Like you said, it is sad that some folks torture themselves by being in a continual state of confusion and doubt about their Salvation.

I think the majority of the confusion is caused by:

1. Failure to find out who the speaker is.
2. Failure to find out who the intended audience is.
3. Taking a few words out of context with the verse or the chapter.
4. Does the verse address the law (old covenant), or does it address Grace (new covenant)?
5. Does the verse address spiritual death, or does it address physical death?
6. Does the verse address loss of Salvation, loss of rewards for a child of God, or chastisement of a child of God?
7. THIS IS A BIG ONE - Does the verse address Jews or Gentiles?
8. THIS IS A BIG ONE - Does the verse address a time before or after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ on The Cross?
9. THIS IS A BIG ONE - Does the reader believe he or she lives under pure law ALONE (old covenant), under pure Grace ALONE (new covenant), or some type of mixture of LAW AND GRACE?

You already know what I believe. There is only ONE GOSPEL, THE GOSPEL OF GOD'S GRACE. One can end tremendous confusion by trying to understand GRACE, the reason for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, and the PROMISE OF GOD for those who believe and accept Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour. Every child of God should have and can have 100% assurance they are SAVED FOR ETERNITY. GOD SAID IT, IT'S DONE!
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« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2003, 09:21:40 PM »

So you are basically saying that what Jesus said in Matthew is irrelevent and that Jesus didn't realize he was wasting his breath because the old covenent passed when Jesus was crucified.

So the Sermon on the Mount & the Beatitudes are irrelevent?  We shouldn't even worry about doing Gods' will since we will be saved anyway?  And all the passages I cited don't have merrit, but your opinion does?  Sorry but I believe Jesus' teachings are not irrelevent.  You can't pick and choose what part of the Bible you want to believe.  

No one can serve two masters.  Either you love the Lord or you love earthly sinful things.  If you follow the Lord and stumble along the way you will be forgiven.  If you follow the sinful world you cannot also follow the Lord, even if you think you are saved.  You cannot accept Christ as Lord and savior if you love worldly things.  That would be turning you back on Jesus and his free grace.  It's a choice we all have.


Titus 1:
15   To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled.
16   They profess to know God, but by their deeds they deny Him, being detestable and disobedient and worthless for any good deed.

1 John 1:
 5   This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6   If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
7   but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8   If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9   If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10   If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.

1 John 2:
1   My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2   and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3   By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4   The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5   but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected.  By this we know that we are in Him:
6   the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
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« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2003, 01:58:35 PM »

Oklahoma Howdy to Early57,

I enjoyed your post. I think you described the real beauty, love, and power of the Gospel of God's Grace. The gift is free, undeserved, and eternal, All by the Matchless Grace of God.

DITTO  Grin
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« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2003, 02:01:31 PM »

There are many other Bible verses and excuses that some have problems with but if we keep them all in the light of the above seven points we will trust God and His Word and give no place for doubts and distrust.

John .5:24 . Truly truly I say unto you, He who hears my Word and believes on Him who sent Me HAS EVERLASTING LIFE and SHALL NOT come into judgement but HAS PASSED from death to life. WHAT A PROMISE ! LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR !

Oklahoma Howdy to Ambassador4Christ,

It is fairly easy to become confused with certain portions of Scripture. Like you said, it is sad that some folks torture themselves by being in a continual state of confusion and doubt about their Salvation.

I think the majority of the confusion is caused by:

1. Failure to find out who the speaker is.
2. Failure to find out who the intended audience is.
3. Taking a few words out of context with the verse or the chapter.
4. Does the verse address the law (old covenant), or does it address Grace (new covenant)?
5. Does the verse address spiritual death, or does it address physical death?
6. Does the verse address loss of Salvation, loss of rewards for a child of God, or chastisement of a child of God?
7. THIS IS A BIG ONE - Does the verse address Jews or Gentiles?
8. THIS IS A BIG ONE - Does the verse address a time before or after the crucifixion of Jesus Christ on The Cross?
9. THIS IS A BIG ONE - Does the reader believe he or she lives under pure law ALONE (old covenant), under pure Grace ALONE (new covenant), or some type of mixture of LAW AND GRACE?

You already know what I believe. There is only ONE GOSPEL, THE GOSPEL OF GOD'S GRACE. One can end tremendous confusion by trying to understand GRACE, the reason for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, and the PROMISE OF GOD for those who believe and accept Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour. Every child of God should have and can have 100% assurance they are SAVED FOR ETERNITY. GOD SAID IT, IT'S DONE!

Brother you get one "BIG" AAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN
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DITTO  Grin
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« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2003, 04:05:28 PM »

Iíve asked this on another thread but was unable to get a reply I could understand. How does the following verses fit in with the idea that because we are saved by grace we can not fall away from that grace?

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Matthew 10
21   And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22   And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Hebrews 6
4   For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5   And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6   If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
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« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2003, 05:46:01 PM »

If you become saved and never develop spiritually in the will and word of God and fall away willfully and love the world instead of the Word of God then you also turn your back on the on who saves by grace.  This person never was saved to begin with, so there was no salvation to loose.  Grace is a free choice.  If we do not chose it, will will not get it.  

Turning your back on the Word of God is a sure way to not receive salvation in the first place, because this means you are turning your back on the Savior, Jesus Christ who is the Word of God.

God knows the beginning from the end & knows the heart.  God cannot be mocked.  

"There is only ONE GOSPEL, THE GOSPEL OF GOD'S GRACE. One can end tremendous confusion by trying to understand GRACE, the reason for the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, and the PROMISE OF GOD for those who believe and accept Jesus Christ as their personal Saviour. Every child of God should have and can have 100% assurance they are SAVED FOR ETERNITY. GOD SAID IT, IT'S DONE!"

I agree with this.  The point is simple, saying your saved & getting baptized does not save you anymore more than keeping the law.  What saves you is belief and acceptance of the Savior Jesus Christ.  There is no "easy grace" that saves everyone who merely calls to Jesus. it is belief and acceptance which are defined in the NT passages I have quoted.

Matthew 7:
21   "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22   "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23   "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Merely calling to the Lord Jesus is not enough.  Jesus was clearly talking to people who believed Jesus was the Christ and was not talking just to non-believing Jews.  This is apparent by the passage "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

You must believe and accept that Jesus is your savior and you will be saved forever!
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« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2003, 07:37:43 PM »

Words of God's Grace
From Romans: Verse By Verse
by William R. Newell

The Nature of Grace

Grace is God acting freely, according to His own nature as love, with no promises or obligations to fulfill and acting of course, righteously--in view of the cross.
Grace, therefore, is uncaused in the recipient; its cause lies wholly in the GIVER, in God.
Grace also is sovereign. Not having debts to pay, or fulfilled conditions on man's part to wait for, it can act to whom, and how it pleases. It can, and does, often, place the worst deservers in the highest favors.
Grace cannot act where there is either desert or ability; grace does not help--it is absolute, it does it all.
There being no cause in the creature why grace should be shown, the creature must be brought off from trying to give cause to God for His grace.
The discovery by the creature that he is truly the object of Divine grace, works the utmost humility; for the receiver of grace is brought to know his own absolute unworthiness, and his complete inability to attain worthiness, yet he finds himself blessed,--on another principle, outside of himself!
Therefore, flesh has no place in the plan of grace. This is the great reason why grace is hated by the proud natural mind of man. But this very reason, the true believer rejoices! For he knows that "in him, that is, in his flesh, is no good thing"; and yet he finds God glad to bless him, just as he is!

The Place of Man Under Grace

He has been accepted in Christ, who is his standing!
He is not "on probation".
As to his life past, it does not exist before God; he died at the cross, and Christ is his life.
Grace, once bestowed, is not withdrawn; for God knew all the human urgent needs before hand: His action was independent of them, not dependent upon them.
The failure of devotion does not cause the withdrawal of bestowed grace (as it would under law). For example: the man in 1Corinthians 5:1-5; and also those in 11:30-32, who did not "judge" themselves, and so were judged by the Lord, -- that they might not be condemned with the world!

The Proper Attitude of Man Under Grace


To believe, and to consent to be loved while unworthy, is the great secret.
To refuse to make "resolutions" and "vows", for that is to trust in the flesh.
To expect to be blessed, though realizing more and more the lack of worth.
To testify of God's goodness, at all times.
To be certain of God's future favor; yet to be ever more tender in conscience toward Him.
To rely on God's chastening hand as a mark of His kindness.
A man under grace, if like Paul, has no burdens regarding himself, but many about others.

Things Which Gracious Souls Discover

To "hope to be better" is to fail to see yourself in Christ only.
To be disappointed with yourself is to have believed in yourself.
To be discouraged is unbelief, --as to God's purpose and plan of blessing for you.
To be proud, is to be blind! For we have no standing before God, in ourselves.
The lack of divine blessing, therefore, comes from unbelief, and not from failure of devotion.
Real devotion to God arises, not from man's will to show it, but from the discovery that blessing has been received from God while we were yet unworthy and undevoted.
To preach devotion first, and blessing second, is to reverse God's order, and preach law, not grace. The Law made man's blessing depend on devotion; grace confers undeserved, unconditional blessing; our devotion may follow, but does not always do so, -- in proper measure.
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« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2003, 10:03:00 PM »

ALL BELIEVERS ARE POSITIONALLY NOW IN HEAVEN

"(God)...hath RAISED us up together, and made us sit together IN HEAVENLY PLACES in Christ Jesus" (Eph. 2:6).

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