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Author Topic: I, II, III John  (Read 4762 times)
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« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2004, 08:38:41 PM »

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The books of I, II, III John are books that are not written to the Body of Christ.

Hogwash!
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« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2004, 08:47:00 PM »

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The books of I, II, III John are books that are not written to the Body of Christ.

Hogwash!

Double Hogwash!
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« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2004, 03:34:03 AM »


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The books of I, II, III John are books that are not written to the Body of Christ.


Quote


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN!!!! BEREAN_ AAAMEN!

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« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2004, 08:59:56 AM »

PART 2:
From the commentary by C. S. Stam on "1 CORINTHIANS.

PAUL AND HIS GOSPEL: I Cor. 15:1-4: "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand:

"By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

"For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures.

"And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures."

Paul is very specific here. He says "this is THE GOSPEL WHICH I PREACHED UNTO YOU ... wherein ye stand ... by which also ye are saved." Thus of all the important passages in the Word of God, this is surely one to which we should pay most earnest heed, for it tells what God's message of salvation is for us today and how God saves sinners.

There is something about this passage, however, that troubles some sincere believers. They ask: "If this passage contains the gospel which remained a secretuntil revealed to Paul, why does he state that Christ both died and rose again according to the Scriptures'?" Well, Christ did, as a matter of fact, die and rise again according to the Scriptures; nor does this imply that what Paul had to say about His death and resurrection was a prophesied message rather than part of the mystery revealed to him.

Paul clearly states here that this is "the gospel which I preached unto you," and this was not the gospel which the twelve had been preaching. Otherwise he would not habitually use such phrases as: "my gospel" (Three times: Rom. 2:16; 16:25; 11 Tim. 2:7,8); "our gospel" (Three times: 11 Cor. 4:3; I Thes. 1:5; II Thes. 2:14); "the gospel which I preached unto you" (I Cor. 15: 1); "the gospel which was preached of me" (Gal. 1:11); "that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles" (Gal 2:2); and "that [gospel] which we preached unto you" (Gal. 1:8). Nor would he have had to go specially to Jerusalem to communicate to the leaders there "a message which they were already preaching.” Much less would he have had to do this "privately" (Gal. 2:2).

At Pentecost Peter had charged his Jewish hearers with the death of Christ and when, convicted they asked: "Men and brethren, what shall we do?" he did not reverse himself and preach the cross as good news. Rather he said:

"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. . ." (Acts 2:38).

Obviously, then, Paul's gospel was not that which the twelve had been preaching. In fact theirs was called "the gospel of the kingdom," while his is called "the gospel

of the grace of God" (Matt. 4:23; 9:35; Acts 20:24). Theirs, right through Pentecost, concerned the throne (Acts 2:29-36), while his concerned the cross (I Cor. 1:18,23).

Further, the apostle says here in I Cor. 15:3: “I delivered unto you first of all thatwhich I also received." This and similar phraseology is familiar to Paul when referring to the revelation he received from the glorified Lord in heaven (cf. I Cor. 11:23; 1 Thes. 4:15). And if all these passages from the Word of God be not enough, we have the clearest, most emphatic, assurance as to this from Paul's own testimony in Gal. 1:11,12:

"But I certify you brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

"For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but [I received it] BY THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST."

How can our denominational brethren refuse all this testimony to the separate and distinctive ministry of the Apostle Paul? How could the spirit have stated it more clearly? How could He have insisted upon it more consistently?

Nowhere in the Old Testament Scriptures do we read that Christ would die and be raised again in three days for the sins of the world.

Isaiah 53, to which our opponents so often refer, does not say "all men" but "all we" and "us all," for Isaiah speaks as a Hebrew prophet, saying, "for the transgression of my people was He stricken" (Ver. 8). True, the Old Testament contains many prophecies about Christ, but all was purposely couched in veiled language and in types that could only be understood after Christ, the Antitype, had appeared. And what the cross had accomplished could not be revealed until the raising up of Paul, the chief of sinners saved by grace. He represented both Jew and Gentile, being both a born Hebrew and a born Roman (Acts 22:3,25,26).

In any case, the apostle does not say here in I Cor. 15:3,4, that his message about the crucifixion and resurrection was the fulfillment of prophecy. This would have been untrue. Rather he says that it was "according to," or in accordance with, prophecy. As the Bereans found out, there was nothing in prophecy to  contradict his message and much to confirm it indirectly. Note: he quotes no prophecy from the Old Testament to the effect that Christ would die for the sins of all - including the Gentiles, for there is none.

THE PREACHING OF THE CROSS: The world will gladly listen to preaching about "the baby Jesus" or "the carpenter of Nazareth," or "the man of Galilee." They will gladly listen to the story of His life, but bring them to the cross and they back away. The preaching of the cross embarrasses the Jew. To him Christ crucified is a constant "stone of stumbling and a rock of offence." He complains with his fathers: "Ye intend to bring this man's blood upon us" (Acts 5:28).

To the Gentiles the preaching of the cross is foolishness. They laugh and say: "He could not save Himself! How can He save others? He could not save them by His life! How can He save them by His death?"

Thank God, what seems so foolish and illogical to them proves to be the only reasonable plan of salvation. We who have been saved are thrilled and proud of Christ; we love and adore Him, because He did not save Himself so that He might save us, for "Christ died FOR our sins."

Here, at Calvary, are solved for us the two greatest riddles of all time: that of the death of Christ and that of the sin of man. Why did God forsake His beloved Son? Why did He allow wicked men to outrage and crucify the sinless, harmless Christ? You will find the answer only when you ask why mankind (represented by Saul) hated and hounded Christ to His death. God's action was the only antidote to man's. Christ's death was the only remedy for man's sin. It was because of the utter unreasonableness of man's sin that God, to save him, had to be more than reasonable.

"My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?" "Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me?" These two questions represent the greatest riddles of all history, yet, strangely, one is the simple explanation of the other! One is complementary to the other!

That "Christ died" is a historical fact that everyone knows. "Our sins" also constitute a fact which no one can deny. But either of these facts alone remains an insoluble problem. We must bring the two together with the little preposition "for" between, accepting God's explanation that "Christ died FOR our sins."

In the two "whys" we here consider, the problems of sin and salvation are solved. The Savior and the sinner are brought together. The blasphemer, the persecutor, is thoroughly transformed and the Savior is glorified. This is what Paul's great message was all about and from it flowed "the exceeding riches of [God's] grace" to us (Eph. 1:7-10).

Man's sinful nature has always been an undeniable fact - but also an insoluble riddle to the unsaved. Why did God create man, knowing he would sin? Why did He permit sin? and many other questions. To them all there are many fragmentary answers, but the great, fundamental answer is that "Christ died for our sins." As to the Lord Jesus Christ, even secular history agrees that He was at the very least a good man. And here a God who is supposed to be just and loving, lets cruel and wicked men nail His Son to a tree where He dies in agony and disgrace. How could such a God be either loving or just, if it is not true that "Christ died for our sins"? and that this was purposed "in Christ Jesus before the world began" (II Tim. 1:9).

So, beloved, the secret of salvation, the key to heaven is contained in this simple statement of "five words" (I Cor. 14:19): "Christ died for our sins" (I Cor. 15:3). And Paul, the chief of sinners, now saved by grace, was the herald and the living demonstration of this glorious truth.

to be cont'd

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord
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BigD
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« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2004, 09:10:59 AM »

PART 3

THE FOCAL POINT OF THE GOSPEL: While it is true that the gospel Paul proclaimed included the death, burial and resurrection of Christ - and His coming to receive His own unto Himself (Vers. 51-53), even this is not "the whole gospel," for surely "the gospel of the grace of God" must include the good news of all the riches of His grace as unfolded to us in the Epistles of Paul. And surely one must believe in a risen, living Christ to be saved (Vers. 2,4; cf Rom. 10:9,10), but is it not true that most, if not all, who hear the gospel from our lips understand fully that we proclaim one whom we believe to be living in heaven? Thus the focal point of Paul's message was the cross. Sincere believers who hold that in order to preach the whole gospel we should mention the resurrection of Christ along with His crucifixion every time we preach, should take note of the fact that Paul often mentions the crucifixion apart from any mention whatsoever of the resurrection; theresurrection, of course, being pre-supposed. We give but a few of many, many examples:

"I determined not to know anything among you, save Jesus Christ and Him crucified" (I Car. 2:2).

"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which are saved it is the power of God" (I Cor. 1:17,18).

"But we preach Christ crucified . . . . the power of God and the wisdom of God" (I Cor. 1:23,24).

We have chosen only a few such passages from I Corinthians itself, but the rest of Paul's epistles are literally filled with the cross, the death and the blood of Christ.

Please note carefully that the apostle calls his gospel 'the preaching of the cross" (1:18), and as we have seen, the fact that "Christ died for our sins" solves the otherwise insoluble riddles of the death of Christ and the sin of man. It should also be noted that Paul's good news begins with the death of the cross. Peter charged his hearers with the death of Christ, but the mystery revealed through Paul changed the blame and accusation to good news, for Paul proclaimed the cross always and only AS GOOD NEWS:

We are "reconciled to God by the death of His Son" (Rom. 5:10).

"By the grace of God [He] tasted death for every man" (Heb. 2:9).

"Through death" He destroyed the devil, and delivered those who, "through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage" (Heb. 2:14,15).

". . . now in Christ Jesus, ye who sometimes were far off, are made nigh by the blood of Christ (Eph. 2:13).

". . . having made peace through the blood of His cross. (Col. 1:20).

"in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins according to the riches of His grace" (Eph. 1:7).

How many more such statements from the pen of Paul could be cited!  THE WITNESSES TO THE RESURRECTION: I Cor. 15:5-11: "And that He was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve;

"After that, He was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

"After that, He was seen of James; then of all the apostles.

"And last of all He was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

"For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the Church of God.

"But by the grace of God I am what I am: and His grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

"Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed."

While the cross was indeed the focal point of Paul's great message of grace, it does not follow that the resurrection of our Lord was a secondary consideration in his doctrine. Indeed he probably discusses the resurrection of Christ, and therefore of the believer, at greater length here than he discusses any other subject of Christian doctrine.

Simon Greenleaf, of Harvard fame and one of America's greatest jurists, declared that there is more evidence for the bodily resurrection of Christ, than for any other major event in history. The more this writer has studied about the resurrection of the body in general and the bodily resurrection of Christ in particular, the more deeply he is convicted of the truth of Greenleaf's statement. The Apostle Paul does not discuss all this evidence in I Cor. 15, but he surely offers enough to completely silence the skeptic.

First, the apostle declares that "He was seen" by hundreds of people after His resurrection. We cannot here point out how conclusive this is in itself, but be it noted that the lives of Peter and the twelve were all revolutionized by the resurrection of Christ. Cowardice was changed into the rarest type of courage, doubt into unshakable faith, and sorrow into radiant joy.

Specifically, the apostle states that He was "seen of Cephas" and "then of the Twelve." The term, "the Twelve" is used as an official title, for the risen Lord could not have appeared to His twelve apostles, since one of them, Judas, was now dead. And if this passage refers to John 20:19-23, even Thomas was not present

(Ver. 24). Often our Lord's apostles were called "the Twelve," officially, whether or not all twelve were present.

It should be further noted that Paul here distinguishes himself from our Lord's twelve apostles. He was not, as some have taught, God's man for Judas' place. Acts 1:26 and 2:4 are but two of many absolute proofs that Paul could not even have qualified for a place among the Twelve, and the Scriptures plainly state that Matthias was Judas' successor.

"After that," says the apostle, our risen Lord "was seen of above five hundred brethren at once" (Ver. 6). This may well have taken place at the meeting of Matt. 28:16. Mark well that Paul says of these five hundred witnesses that "the greater part remain unto this present," (although some had "fallen asleep") and could bear witness to Christ's resurrection along with Peter and the Twelve. If, then, Paul was incorrect here, or bearing false witness, is it not reasonable to conclude that something should be found in the many writings left from his day to refute it? Would not someone from this multitude who were supposed to have seen Him, have risen to say: "I was there, but I did not see Jesus Christ risen from the dead." But of all the writings from Paul's day still extant no such denial has been brought to light.

"After that," says Paul in Ver. 7, "He was seen of James; then of all the apostles." Evidently he refers here to the James of the apostles, "Peter, James and John," not to James the Lord's half brother, for he goes on to say that next He was seen of "all the apostles," perhaps in the meeting of John 20:26-29. In any case we know that now all the living members of "the Twelve" were present. And this brings us to the greatest of all witnesses to the resurrection of Christ: Paul himself:

THE WITNESS OF PAUL HIMSELF: Ver. 8: "And last of all He was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time."

Paul saw Christ, not on one or two occasions, but again and again. His testimony is by all odds the most conclusive. At his conversion the Lord said to him:

"I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee" (Acts 26:16).

And when Ananias was sent to restore his sight, he said:

"The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldst . . . see that Just  One, and shouldst hear the voice of His mouth" (Acts 22:14).

At his return to Jerusalem Paul saw the Lord again:

" saw Him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me" (Acts 22:18).

Add to these such passages as Acts 18:9; 27:23; I Cor. 11:23; 15:3; II Cor. 12:1,2; Gal. 1:11,12; and I Thes. 4:17, and who can wonder that the apostlechallenges the Corinthians:

"Am I not an apostle? ... Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are ye not my work in the Lord?" (I Cor. 9:1).

Hope this is helpful.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
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Reba
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« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2004, 09:14:34 AM »

Divide and conquer. Must be a wonderfull christian consept.
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BigD
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« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2004, 09:20:54 AM »

The books of I, II, III John are books that are not written to the Body of Christ.

BigD responds:
Berean is 100% correct in stating the above. However, the books of I, II, III John were written FOR the Body of Christ.

"ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" 2Timothy3:16.

God Bless.
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BronxBriar
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« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2004, 09:25:35 AM »

Quote
The books of I, II, III John are books that are not written to the Body of Christ.

Hogwash!

I'm from the city. What exactly is hogwash? Is it a solid, liquid, or gas? Wink
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BigD
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« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2004, 09:36:09 AM »

Quote
The books of I, II, III John are books that are not written to the Body of Christ.

Hogwash!

BigD responds:
I've been told that you can find the answer in the Old Testeament @ Hezekiah 3:16.

It must be a matter of interpretation.

Hope this is helpful.

God Bless.

I'm from the city. What exactly is hogwash? Is it a solid, liquid, or gas? ;)
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« Reply #24 on: August 20, 2004, 12:55:04 PM »

The books of I, II, III John are books that are not written to the Body of Christ. Many who know how to rightly divide use some verses from these books but fail to notice what verses go with them them.

As we know we are not under the law, not saved by keeping the commandments, and our sins are already forgiven us in Christ the moment we believed. . . .
Whoever,

Oh, my. I thought I had heard all the excuses.

I could almost understand how in times past man and his traditions and superstitions have taken the Holy Scriptures and bent and perverted them to justify man's remaining sins that he loves more than he Loves God, . . .

. . . . but to throw out entire Books of the Bible is certainly a much easier way not to confront Truth, I suppose.

Sadly, the poster I quote even has a grain of Truth mixed in with his distorted de-canonization.

The Truth is, the Epistles of John were indeed not letters written to every born-again Christian who lived at John's time or who ever would live. They were intimate communications between John and his "children," those of the Heavenly Father through the New Birth who were FURTHER given over to John for his "espous[ing]" them to the bride of Christ (2 Cor. 11 - Paul). They were apostolicaly birthed into the Kingdom (as compared to those who attempt to be their own apostle, and perevert God's Truth accordingly).

Furthermore, we find as such, these who were children of an Apostle were well on the Way to being perfected in God's Love, that which the Word clearly staes, and in more than one place, is required for eternal Life.

For example, in Luke 10:25-28, Jesus Himself clearly states that eternal Life is only inherited by those who live in obedience to the NT's 3 (by impl.) Comm. of Love and Faith.

Graciously, since many will self-justify away Jesus' plainly spoken Words there, we are given 1 John 2:3-5 which basically says the same thing. But obviously, for those who have decided they have the power to throw away that entire Epistle, well--.

The Truth is, when we have been given by Grace the true doctrine of eternal Life, we will find no need to disregard any Scripture for any reason, not even the need to try and take Sciptures of square pegs and jam them into round holes. When we have the Truth by Grace, we will find that ALL Scriptures harmoniously agree with all others.

In Truth, the litmus tests of James' "works" and 1 Jn. 2:3-5 and Luke 10:25-28 are just that. They tell us if we are deceived or in Christ and in the Way and in the Truth.

If we have found the Way, which is the Love of God perfected in us by God's Spirit and Graces alone, we will automatically find our lives are being lived in obedience to the NT's 3 Commandments of Love and Faith. And such did not result from any fleshly works, but was simply the end result of our walking in the Spirit, that which the Word declares is necessary if we are to remain out from under the Law of Sin and Death, and continue under the protective umbrella of "the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 8:1-2).

Yes, such is the "Law" all Christians are under if they continue in Grace. To say that there is no Law for the believer is clearly proven incorrect by Rom. 8:2, not to mention the very basics of human logic and principles of the universe. ALL entities must have in existence laws under which they operate, for where there is no law there is lawlessness. God did not take the Christian out from under the Law of Sin and Death to have them live lawless lives.

"For then with the mind I myself [Paul] SERVE the Laws of God."

We are taken out from UNDER the dead letter of the Law so that we have every advantage to SERVE the NT Law of Life in Christ Jesus by the Spirit, in newness of Spirit (Rom. 7:6).

The difference between being under a dead law and serving a life-giving law, is all the difference in the world, the difference between Life and death.

Law was not eliminated from society, but changed.

"For where there is a change in the priesthood, there is also of necessity a CHANGE n the Law."

But the lawless in heart, the lawless who seek justification for continuing to serve the still-remaining idols/impure motives of their heart, will always insist upon--.

So then the Gospel is quite simple. We are taken out from under the Law of Sin and Death so that the power of sin is broken, whereby we then have access to every Grace we need to continue in life "walking in the Spirit." But if instead we choose to continue and agape Love our remaining sins of the heart more than God, if instead of walking in Spirit who seeks fellowship with us so that He can reveal those remaining sins and further deliver us and subsequently equip us with more Grace, we rather choose to give into the dictates of our flesh, we place ourselves back under the Law of Sin and death, for we have counted the Blood of Christ Jesus a common thing, have trampled underfoot His Grace and made an open mockery of Him and His holiness, and no longer does any sacrifice remain because we have willfully sinned and in the Law of our mind (Heb. 11:26-29; Rom. 7:21, 25) have decided to serve our hearts' idols of sin rather than the Living God.

But then if we just decide we can throw out the Books of Hebrews too, then we can live in safety, correct?

"Be not deceived, God is not mocked: whatever a man sows, that will he also reap," born-again or not. Guaranteed!

But neither can we be as the foolish Galatians, who attempted to live by the Commandments through means other than strictly God' Spirit and Graces.

Give up, let Him, bro. jim

brotherjim@mail.com
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« Reply #25 on: August 20, 2004, 01:27:11 PM »

Btw, my post above was written mainly for the benefit of those of us who ALREADY know that we know that we know, that God does not allow the born-again Christian to daily spit in the Face of Jesus and His Grace, and still in the end inherit eternal Life. As for those who desire to live lawless, such will always find what they insist are "loopholes in the Law" that allow them to live with their remaining sins of the heart and still inherit eternal Life. To the latter, God just had to suffer the trampling underfoot of His precious Truths, not only so that those of a sincere heart would understand the Biblical precepts behind what they know is Truth, but also for the slim chance that some who have wandered too far away may still be recovered from the snare of the adversary who has taken them captive to do his will, "if God peradventure will grant them repentance to the acknowledging of the Truth," as hard as that is for any of us to have the Faith and believe. Therefore, if such happens, ALL glory to God and Grace alone, amen? Amen!

bj
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« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2004, 04:20:43 PM »

GRRRRREAT Preaching Brother Berean_

AAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN!!!!!

(We were already forgiven of all sin by the crosswork of Christ, when we believed)

And AAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEN!!!!!!

Your friend and brother

Brother Love Smiley

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THINGS THAT DIFFER By C.R. Stam
Read it on line for "FREE"

http://www.geocities.com/protestantscot/ttd/ttd_chap1.html

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Reba
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« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2004, 10:50:57 PM »

Our doctines should fit the scriptures ..... We rip, squeeze, stritch, just plane ol leave out verses  or even Books that  dont line up with what WE WANT God to be saying. Gods Word stands as written even if we dont like it....
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« Reply #28 on: September 02, 2004, 04:51:01 AM »

Our doctines should fit the scriptures ..... We rip, squeeze, stritch, just plane ol leave out verses  or even Books that  dont line up with what WE WANT God to be saying. Gods Word stands as written even if we dont like it....

Reba, AMEN!!! Now try it for a change Smiley

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THINGS THAT DIFFER By C.R. Stam
Read it on line for "FREE"

http://www.geocities.com/protestantscot/ttd/ttd_chap1.html

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