big mess

[musicllover]

Hi all,
        I come to the women forum but I actually could use some mens responses too. My marriage has been in trouble for a few years now. I don't know how to submit to my husband in much of anything. I don't know if its me or him it honestly both and I take my share of the blaim, he wont admit to doing to much wrong. I honestly tried for several years to be a good submissive wife, and homemaker. We have always argued, disagreed sometime heatedly over sex, money and relegion. Never enough sex, or money, and he insists that we go to a church that is dead. No youth group, I'm the youngs person there except for my own children, and I'm 43. His money has alwasy been his money and everthing I needed, or our kids seemed like it was a major burden to him. We had 5 children so we needed a lot. GOing to the grocery store always caused a fight, he said he could feed a family of 7 on 10.00 a day, so I stopped going and let him go, but then I refused to cook since I have NO idea what is in my kitchen, besides I can't stay within the 10.00 a day budget. I then took my name OFF of his checking account 2 years ago. We talked about me going to collage, he told me he thought it was a good idea, I resigned from my job, and now I have NO money of my own, I do ask for money to help buy my medications, or something of real importance. But still I NEVER seemed to stay with in the budget. Now he is telling the last 3 kids that are still living at home, that it is my fault we are in debt, the reason the house lacks the repairs etc etc. (Even tho most of what he needs that was bought and payed for, (dry wall, electrical wiring, and plumbing pips), has layed in the same place going on 6 years. I had made a very very foolish mistake and opened up a charge account, I needed thinks he wouldn't buy, some was unneccessary and some wasn't. He agreed to help me with my debt so I could go to collage, we were going to refinance and pay off my debt, well it didn't happen, he was so furious when he seen how much it was that he refused to pay it. SO now I am 7,000 in debt and have no money to pay my monthly bill. I can understand his anger, but he will pay 125.00 for our daughter car payemnt, and her insurance that is over 200.00 amonth cause she had a wreck. He'll do that but not help me pay my debt. OK fine now I am taking out school loan to pay of my debts, and I'll end up being in debt to the Gov instead of a credit card. That is my just dues, but I feel terrible hurt that he isn't there for me financially, or spiritual. I feel helpless, our marriage begun to really crumble when our oldest boy rebelled, our middle daughter was abused by a family member, that raised up some very old issues for me. (the reason why sex has been hard for me) of coarse he doesn't understand any of that. That was way back then it doesn't have anything to do with now. He has admitted to not loving me,to me and to 2 marriage therapist, but then he recounts that statement and leave me confused as to what her really feels. Him not doing the home repairs, (mold growing in the basement from bad foundation and rain water standing, small but still holes in my floor etc etc). THis is only the edge of the iceburg for this marriage, there has been one time he held me down, choked me and claimed he was going to kill me. But he says it wasn't that bad. Only time he has ever done that. But I can't trust him, I want to do something, but what?, leave, divorce, stay...I don't even know if I love him anymore, sometimes I think I do and sometimes I know I don't and help me got any advice.    

[sincereheart]

The louse
in your house
isn't your spouse,
it's Satan.

[Kristi Ann]

The louse
in your house
isn't your spouse,
it's Satan.

AMEN!! Sincereheart!!


I will pray for you musicllover.  


Blessings sweetie,  \o/


Love Always,

KristiAnn

PS, I am 44 not married anymore, I have never had children of my own.  I will continue to Pray for you!

[musicllover]

The louse
in your house
isn't your spouse,
it's Satan.

 Both of you,
    I am relieved (someone understands, so maybe I can trust my feelings) and shocked, to see your responses. I just sometimes don't know what to think anymore, can I trust myself enough to know what I need to do?. I have to wonder am I blowing things out of proportion, is my husband doing all these things, yes he is, but does he have good reasons, maybe  I am just a women who can't be pleased. I know what I have heard, know what I have felt, but live in such a state of confusion that I am not sure what I need to be doing. I don't know how to explain it, I just know that I am scared of him, confused by him, and his actions, "this is love? I do not believe he loves me, probably never has, but then how do I know what love is?    At other times I love him and it kills me that he doesn't appear to love me back, do I have a right to think that? Can a women go by appearances, and feelings. Even one that can't trust herself. Cause I don't trust myself.  
    I have tried to figure out if God want me to stay in this marriage? I pray about it, but I am weak in my relationship with God as well.  All this decision making is scarey too. God doesn't like divorce. Is love something that happens or do you make it happen? after all these years you would think I'd know that but I don't. What is love anyway. I know that it needs to come from both people, some how people who are in love with each other are sure of that love, right?. I don't feel that he has ever loved me.......but can I trust myself. I want to trust God but how do you trust God to give you directions for your marraige when a part of you believes that divorce is against God's word. and God doesn't go against his own word. So is that my answer, stay in this marriage? I am so tired of tryin to know what God wants that I could absolutely scream in frustraion.
     Thank you both for your prayers, I truly need them.
musicllover

[sincereheart]

"Self Talk: what goes on in your head can destroy your marriage
by Bob and Yvonne Turnbull

Self-talk can often determine whether our marriage is fulfilling or unfulfilling.  "What do we mean by self-talk?"

Self-talk is the talk you have with yourself all day.  Most of it is silent.  Inside your mind.  We're often led to believe that outside events or people affect our attitudes and feelings more than self-talk.  Not necessarily true.  It's often the other way around.  Our emotions start in our mind and can grow into feelings that can lead to such things as worry, anger or even happiness.

Our self-talk is so automatic that we're mostly unaware we're even doing it.  Our self-talk can be positive or negative.  A lot of negative self-talk makes you a negative person.  Emerson said, "Be aware of what you set your mind on, for that you will surely become."  That is what scripture means when a portion of Proverbs 23:7 says, "For as he thinks in his heart, so is he." (NKJV)

Our self-talk affects the way we act toward our mate.  Here's an example for you: A husband and wife have planned a night out, but at the last minute he calls and says, "Sorry, but the boss just gave me a project due tomorrow morning.  That means I have to stay and work late tonight.  What I'd like to do is switch our plans to tomorrow night.  OK?"  The wife hangs up and if her thought life isn't consistently under God's control her self-talk could be this --

"Didn't he know I had looked forward to this night all week?  I bet he didn't even think about me when he accepted the project.  He could have told his boss no, that he had an important engagement with his wife.  I bet he likes being at work more than being with me and even volunteered to work late so he wouldn't have to take me out tonight.  If the truth were known he probably doesn't really care about me all that much.  I guess I'm not worthwhile enough to care about.  In fact, a lot of people probably don't care about me.  Oh, why did I marry that man in the first place?"  

Extreme? Maybe. And maybe not.

By the time she finishes with her self-talk, she could be depressed and mad at her husband because she believes he doesn't think being with her is worthwhile.  Guess what - in most cases those thoughts aren't even close to being true.  So what does a self-talking person like that do?  

Capture The Thought
2 Cor 10:5 says, "We capture every thought and make it give up and obey Christ." (NCV).  Often we don't do this.  We just let our thoughts go on and on and on, and our thinking starts to imprison us.  Tune in to your own self-talk, and when you hear it going negative, stop it.  Now, your next step:

Challenge The Thought
When your self-talk is negative it's usually emotionally charged, plus exaggerated - and let's toss in overgeneralized and illogical.  That's why we need to challenge it.

The best way we've found to challenge the thought is to talk it out loud or write it down.  Do it either way, but get it out.  The longer it stays in your mind, the more it gets distorted.  When it's out, we often can "see the light."  If you write it down, divide a piece of paper in two.  On the left side write all the reasons you believe the thought is true, and on the right side jot down all the reasons you believe it's false, relying on the Holy Spirit to show you the truth.

Ask yourself some questions about what you've just told yourself -- Is it true?  How do I know it's true?  Why should I believe this?  Am I overreacting?  What's the real issue?  Questions like that.

Change The Thought
After challenging your self-talk, you need to reflect on the truth. Replace your self-talk with right thoughts.  Reading scripture can help you get refocused.  Phil 4:8 tells us what we need to focus on: "Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable - if anything is excellent or praiseworthy - THINK about such things."  Godly thoughts and Godly thinking patterns have the ability to transform the way we deal with our mate, and at the same time will help us be the mate God wants us to be.

Check your own self-talk for the next 24 hours to see if it is more negative or positive.  If you realize your self-talk is more negative, take one of those thoughts and go through the three steps of capture-challenge-change.  It will impact your marriage.

Thank you and may our Lord continue to bless and guide your every day."
http://www.pastors.com/article.asp?printerfriendly=1&ArtID=1707

[sincereheart]

Pull together when you're pulled apart
by Rick Warren

Sometimes the biggest conflicts in marriage are over the most trivial issues.  One of the silliest fights Kay and I ever had was over bath soap.  For me, a hot steamy shower is a spiritual experience … right up there with eating fresh cinnamon rolls. I also happen to be a person who gets bored very quickly with the same thing.  So I like variety.  I don't want to use the same kind of soap for 42 years.

One day I said to Kay I'd like some different kind of soap.  But I said it in a way that sounded like our marriage was a failure because we used the same kind of soap all the time.  Three or four months later at Christmas time, she personally wrapped and placed under the tree - 27 different bars of soap!

Every relationship – even good ones – have conflict.  If you don't know how to deal with it, how to resolve it, how to manage it, you can kill your relationship.

The Bible's very clear about it.  Mark 3 says, "A home filled with strife and division destroys itself."  We’re going to look at some practical steps right out of God’s Word that will help us Pull Together When We’re Pulled Apart.  If you're not married, you can use these principles in your business, with your best friend, with children, whatever.  We all have conflict any time we’re involved in relationship.  

What causes conflict?
The Bible says conflict is caused by selfishness.  James 4:1, "Do you know where your fights and arguments come from?  They come from selfish desires that war within you."  I am basically a selfish person.  I think of me before I think of anybody else.  And you do too.  I want what I want and you want what you want, and when these competing desires collide that's called conflict.

The night before I got married, my father in law sat down with us and said, "There are five areas where marriages usually have conflict:  money, sex, in-laws, children, and communication."  My father-in-law was a prophet. In our marriage we went five for five!  We hit every single one of them.

Some of you are in major pain right now.  You are frustrated to no end.  You feel stuck in your relationship because you have argued about certain issues over and over in your relationship and there has been no resolution, much less reconciliation.  You don't know what to do.

God says, "Here are some steps."  I've seen these steps work in dozens, if not hundreds of couples.

If you're going to pull together, when you're pulled apart, you have to...  

1.  Call on God for help
Pray about it.  Before you go to the other person and talk to them about the problem, discuss it with God.  This may solve the problem right there.  Before you start dealing with the issue, before you talk to anybody about the problem, talk to God about it, and ask Him for help.

I challenge you to practice what I call ventilating vertically. Many of you are very good at ventilating horizontally, but ventilating vertically is when you come to God.  You come and say, "Here's how I feel."  And you just lay it out.

James 4:2, "You quarrel and fight.  You do not have because you do not ask God."  This is so foundational; you have to get this point.  Conflict often occurs when we expect other people to meet needs that only God Himself can meet in our lives.

One day you stood in front of a bunch of people and you said, "I do."  What you were really saying was, "I expect."  You weren't thinking about what you intended to do and the promises you were going to keep.  You were thinking, "Good!  All my needs are going to be met now!  This person is the answer to my dreams and is going to fulfill me in every way."  There is no person alive who could possibly meet all your needs.  Only God can do that.

God says, “You quarrel and fight.  You have unmet needs because you don't ask God.”  How do I know when I'm looking to other people instead of God to meet my needs?  It's called anger. Anger is a warning light, which says, "I'm expecting somebody to meet my needs."  When I have a need for you to be on time and you're late, or when I have a need for you to notice me and you don't, I get angry.  God says, "Why don't you try talking to Me about it first."  Instead of expecting your mate to meet all your needs, God wants you to look to Him.  "You have not because you do not ask God."

continued.....

[sincereheart]

~more

I challenge you to practice what I call ventilating vertically. Many of you are very good at ventilating horizontally, but ventilating vertically is when you come to God.  You come and say, "Here's how I feel."  And you just lay it out.

James 4:2, "You quarrel and fight.  You do not have because you do not ask God."  This is so foundational; you have to get this point.  Conflict often occurs when we expect other people to meet needs that only God Himself can meet in our lives.

One day you stood in front of a bunch of people and you said, "I do."  What you were really saying was, "I expect."  You weren't thinking about what you intended to do and the promises you were going to keep.  You were thinking, "Good!  All my needs are going to be met now!  This person is the answer to my dreams and is going to fulfill me in every way."  There is no person alive who could possibly meet all your needs.  Only God can do that.

God says, “You quarrel and fight.  You have unmet needs because you don't ask God.”  How do I know when I'm looking to other people instead of God to meet my needs?  It's called anger. Anger is a warning light, which says, "I'm expecting somebody to meet my needs."  When I have a need for you to be on time and you're late, or when I have a need for you to notice me and you don't, I get angry.  God says, "Why don't you try talking to Me about it first."  Instead of expecting your mate to meet all your needs, God wants you to look to Him.  "You have not because you do not ask God."

5.  Concentrate on reconciliation, not resolution
There's a very important difference.  Reconciliation means to re establish the relationship.  Resolution means to resolve every issue by coming to agreement on everything.  That's not going to happen.

You'll discover there are some things you're never going to agree on.  I don't care if you both love the Lord and are both dramatically in love with each other – there are some things you're never going to agree on simply because God has wired us differently.

You're not going to agree with everything your mate believes or thinks.  But you can disagree without being disagreeable.  That's called wisdom.  The Bible says in James 3, "Wisdom is peace loving and courteous.  It allows discussion and it is willing to yield to others.”  The Bible says it's wise to compromise.  You can have unity without uniformity.  You can walk hand in hand without seeing eye to eye.  You can have reconciliation without resolution of every issue.

Some of you are worn out from the conflict in your marriage. You want to throw in the towel.  Don't do it!  It is more rewarding to resolve a conflict than to dissolve a relationship.

So your homework is to schedule a peace conference.

Let me close with a couple of suggestions:

1. Some of you may need to get professional help.  Many marriages are miserable, and they go year after year with the same old problems, because they're just too proud to go get help.  Don’t go to just anybody.  Get a godly counselor who bases his/her practice on God’s Word.
 
2. The other thing you need to do is get help from God.  You can't do this on your own.  I've seen these steps work.  But you need Christ's power to work them.

Many marriage conflicts would be solved overnight if both the husband and wife would kneel before Jesus Christ and say, "We humble ourselves and humbly ask You to make this thing work.  We submit our egos to You and our hurts to You.  Jesus Christ, do what only You can do."

http://www.pastors.com/RWMT/?id=53&artid=1790&expand=1

[Kristi Ann]

Dear MusicLover,


I will continue to Pray for you Sister!

My mother was married to my daddy 45 years before he died. He never went to church, never talked about God, and didn't like the hypocrites at Church he told me.  My daddy was raised in a Catholic School.

My mother stayed with him because she loved him uncondiontionally.  My mom always took me to a Baptist Chruch, my daddy never came.

Yes, you're right, God Hates Divorce!!  Too much pain in divorce, plus is we wait and ask God what to do, maybe He'll help us through the hard times.

God Loves you Music Lover, He will never Leave you nor forsake you sweetie!

I Love you Sister, please remember "You're Not alone!"


Blessings sweetie,  \o/

KristiAnn

[musicllover]

Thak you sisters in Christ,
                                 I will continue to pray as well. I have read what you have shared here Sincereheart. Some very good points. I know prayer would help us so very much. I've asked several times if we could pray together and it just doesn't happen. He is too reserved to pray in front of me about personal needs marriage needs or what ever. And when I suggested we talk to our Pastor he didn't want to air dirty laundry, we tried marriage councilers but he felt they were taking my side more than his. I kinda wonder if it was because they were women. There has been so much happen I can't even begin to expalin it all. And I truly want what God wants, I want peace, and love. Even my daughter are telling me to leave him. Somethign isn't right I just don't know what it is. I know I have my part in all this, but I simply don't have the energy to make the changes, I guess I should say I am sick of being the one to make the changes, the compromises. So I just stopped.
    Anyway, God knows all this, I just needed to pour out my grieveance, maybe feel as thou someone cares and I appreciate you both so much.
      Several years ago I had to make a hard decision, (not as hard as this one) but I prayer sincerely and God did answer. I know he will this time too, I just need to be pateint, and allow the Holy Spirit to lead me.
and then MAKE myself do what it is God wants, even if that means staying in this marriage.
musicllover  

[sincereheart]

I would never suggest that it's all your fault! I would only suggest that your part is the only part you can work on - with God's guidance!

I just need to be pateint, and allow the Holy Spirit to lead me.

Sometimes (most times ) that's the hardest part for any of us!  

It's in the Valleys I Grow

Sometimes life seems hard to bear,
Full of sorrow, trouble and woe
It's then I have to remember
That it's in the valleys I grow.

If I always stayed on the mountain top
And never experienced pain,
I would never appreciate God's love
And would be living in vain.

I have so much to learn
And my growth is very slow,
Sometimes I need the mountain tops,
But it's in the valleys I grow.

I do not always understand
Why things happen as they do,
But I am very sure of one thing.
My Lord will see me through.

My little valleys are nothing
When I picture Christ on the cross
He went through the valley of death;
His victory was Satan's loss.

Forgive me Lord, for complaining
When I'm feeling so very low.
Just give me a gentle reminder
That it's in the valleys I grow.

Continue to strengthen me, Lord
And use my life each day
To share your love with others
And help them find their way.

Thank you for valleys, Lord
For this one thing I know
The mountain tops are glorious
But it's in the valleys I grow!

This poem was written by Jane Eggleston who currently lives in Virginia. Her son Jeff states, "She is a wonderful person, loves Jesus and has been the best mother anyone could ever ask for." What a fitting tribute to any mother.)

[Shylynne]

I have to object to the "God hates divorce!" A strong statement considering it is not a biblical quote, and it is hard lines like that that leave to many people floundering helplessly in relationships God would have rescued them from.
Aside from that, I am not advocating divorce, but a separation can give anyone in situations like musiclover and her husband ability to step back and take a look at their relationship, and gain the perspective they so desperately seek and cannot possibly have while embroiled in blinding emotions.
God cares for you musiclover, I will be praying for you sister.

[musicllover]

Sincereheart, you said......suggest that your part is the only part you can work on - with God's guidance!......

No truer words have even been spoken, I have so much to be thankful for and at the same time I flounder. I try not to have the pity parties, but sometiems I just get sick of me always being the one that changes, my husband is pretty much the same way he was 20 some years ago. And he'll admit it. I changed so much to make myself what I wanted to be for him (yes he wanted me too). I drank, smoked (both kinds of tobacco) popped speed, cussed like a sailor, didn't much care about myself, blah blah......when I married this man I took his idenity, I made me the person that I thought I wanted to be. Had my children who simpley extended my new idenity to wife plus mother. I knew about God enough to know that I wanted better for my kids, and we joined a church. Years later......When stress destroyed that nice little world I had created,( our oldest ran away from home, and my second daughter was molested among a million other reasons) something inside of me broke, and I haven't been the same since. SO again I have changed for the worse, like changing the rules of the game in the middle.....how can my husband keep up, so I understand his delimia. Yet the things I described in my first post are the truth, his not helping me with my bills, but he does our daughter etc etc etc..... I look at this situation think WHAT in the world have I been doing for the last 20 some years? Am I just now seeing the light or am I being again decieved, maybe I am decieving myself again....not necesarrly the devil doing it? (althought it can come from him) I have been in therapy for going on 4 years. It helps in that it gives me someone to talk too. But I can't trust anyone enough to force me out of this selfmade place of safety.  He isn't Christian but I have been to a Christian therapist as well.  I know I have problems, the hurts and the shadows of an abusive childhood hang on like deadmans weights. So I question myself in all this.....plus I have the conflicting emotions of WHY does my husband do some of the things he does? When you love someone don't you do what ever you can, (legally, morally, Spiritually and emotionally) to please that person, don't you protect, defend (with out blood shed) you treat them as special human beings.......my husband NEVER has, and I know did for the first 18 year or so of our marriage. The older my children become the more alone I was, and when my teens rebelled, knocked me down etc etc, my husband done nothing to help. When I finally got tired and run out of "me" to give, when I couldn't handle the kids physically any more and my kids weren't "perfect" and then one of them was hurt in the worse way humanly possible I broke, and this is what is left.
    I know too that God knows all this, he knows the hurts of my past, and he knows the here and now, how do I let him handle this? How do I let him change me when I have been the chamaleaon all my life..never really the true musicllover...who the heck was musicllover suppose to be anyway? I know he is the answer........
musicllover
    But I liked your suggestions,

[musicllover]

I have to object to the "God hates divorce!" A strong statement considering it is not a biblical quote, and it is hard lines like that that leave to many people floundering helplessly in relationships God would have rescued them from.
Aside from that, I am not advocating divorce, but a separation can give anyone in situations like musiclover and her husband ability to step back and take a look at their relationship, and gain the perspective they so desperately seek and cannot possibly have while embroiled in blinding emotions.
God cares for you musiclover, I will be praying for you sister.

Shylynne,
        Ya your right, but how the heck do you know if God wants to rescue you, if you need rescuing, or maybe God wants me to stay put? I have a personal dislike for divorce, to many step parents in my own life. So I have layed on God what I personally feel.  
   Kinda remindes me of that old joke, man sitting on the roof of his house during a great flood the water is getting higher along comes a row boat, offers the man a ride, he refuses says God is going to save me, the water gets even higher, speed boat comes by, again he refuses saying the Lord is going to save him, finally a helicopter flys over head swing a rope for the man, the man refuses and drowns, goes to Heaven and when he meets God he asks God why didnt' you save me.......God says, I sent you a row boat, speed boat, and a helicopter what more did you want?........
     Is God going to send a lawyer to my door stop..... , that is the reason for me saying that God hates divorce, maybe a better choice would have been God doesn't want us to divorce but there are times when he will tolerate it. In those cases his blessing are there God can do good in with a bad situation, but what if its all me, what if I am again making the change that God doesn't want me to do?  I can't say I'm madly in love, but I do love this man, jsut so very veyr hurt that he doesn't appear to love me back, (going by actions, lack of response, his indifference when we try to talk he'll say do what you want, I want you to stay but do what you want....why does he want me to stay, and then telling the therapist he didn't love me, our kids its all my fault etc etc etc)
   I feel like I'm in a round room and I am told to go sit in the corner........
musicllover

[musicllover]

Sincereheart,
                 I've taken the liberty of coping off your post so that I can study it more. I like the ideas in it. I use to keep a journal and it helped to at least have a place to vent, and off my chest, but I found my husband reading it one day  >:(and I'm scared to death to begin another one. There use to be places I went to to write on the net too, but again I had trouble with my husband posing as an survivor on one sight and visting the open forum on another. ( I accidently found this out when he left the browser open) I quite those sites, anger, embaressment, hurt you name it. I've since up graded to window XP and got my own computer, even then I am always changing the password to keep me feeling safe. If he has been on my computer I freak out.
     Anyway you've given me much to think about. I do ask for you all to keep praying. Negative talk isn't good I completely understand and agree.  I can't keep bouncing around on this, its driving me nuts.........ya ya ya I know short trip.  
blessings,
musicllover

[musicllover]

Dear MusicLover,


I will continue to Pray for you Sister!

My mother was married to my daddy 45 years before he died. He never went to church, never talked about God, and didn't like the hypocrites at Church he told me.  My daddy was raised in a Catholic School.

My mother stayed with him because she loved him uncondiontionally.  My mom always took me to a Baptist Chruch, my daddy never came.

Yes, you're right, God Hates Divorce!!  Too much pain in divorce, plus is we wait and ask God what to do, maybe He'll help us through the hard times.

God Loves you Music Lover, He will never Leave you nor forsake you sweetie!

I Love you Sister, please remember "You're Not alone!"


Blessings sweetie,  \o/

KristiAnn

KristiAnn,
             I have come back to this message time and time again, I like reading it, like hearing it. Thank you for your pryaers and words of encouragement. I know what I must do first and that is get into routine of prayer and study. God doesn't leave us, but we sure have a tendancy to leave him don't we.
    Thank you so much for your kind words.
blessings,
musicllover