Why dislike Mormons so much?

[nChrist]

Pumkin Said:

I am not going to champion the Mormons.  I know what I believe and as it has been clearly said on here, it is a 'Christian' site and Mormon teaching won't be tolerated. Fair enough.  We will leave it at that.   But I do note that while the forum is adamant it won't tolerate any Mormon doctrine, if finds no fault in trashing the Mormons at the same time! So, there is no chance of any belief not believed 'Christian' to actually 'defend' itself now, is there....... Wink

There may be faults in the Church. I will not deny that.  There may be questions which need answering.  But that is in any religion, even the Christian one.

Pumkin,

We don't have any pulpits here for false religions and cults, and we don't apologize at all for not allowing defense or their teaching here. If they want to defend or teach their beliefs, they can open their own forum or web site, and they have. We don't hate Mormons here at all, rather we believe that the Mormon doctrines are from the devil and anti-Christ. We don't have a pulpit here for the devil either.

The JESUS CHRIST who I worship and love is GOD, has always been GOD for eternity past, and will be GOD for eternity future. If you are a Mormon, you don't even know who JESUS CHRIST is, much less love or worship HIM. There is blasphemy involved when someone says that JESUS CHRIST was created and is a brother of lucifer. We don't allow blasphemy here either, but there are many other reasons why Mormon doctrine is not allowed or taught here.

However, the fact remains that we don't hate the Mormon people at all. We love them, and we risk our lives all over the world in trying to bring the Gospel of the Grace of God to them. The same is true for any other religious group or non-religious group who are lost and on their way to the eternal fires of hell. In fact, many thousands of Christians die every year in trying to bring the Gospel to the lost. So, it would be impossible to say that we hate them while we are risking and giving our lives to help them.

You mentioned people in other religions who you say are nice and good people. That's true, and I know some of those nice and good people, but nothing they are doing will result in them being Saved from eternal punishment. There is only one JESUS CHRIST, and HE is very GOD, the CREATOR. Belief in HIM, that HE died in our place on the Cross, and HE arose from the dead on the third day as our LIVING LORD AND SAVIOUR is the only way to be saved. Those who have accepted JESUS CHRIST as LORD over their lives, confessed their sins, and prayed for forgiveness will be spending eternal life with JESUS. Those who reject HIM will spend eternity in the fires of hell.

In terms of what some people say in their blasphemy of JESUS CHRIST, if would have been much better had they never heard HIS NAME than to blaspheme HIM.

Tom

[pumkin]

I know and love Jesus Christ.  He is my Saviour.   

I am not here to argue about religion. Many people have been killed, tortured, bullied in the name of religion.  So much anger all for the name of religion.

You have your opinion and are entitled to it. 

Take care my friend 

[Soldier4Christ]

Hi pumpkin,

You said

You have your opinion and are entitled to it. 

It is not our opinion but the word of God. God said it and I beleive it. Jesus Christ said Joh 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


Their are many "nice" people in the world that do not and will not know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. It is not being nice that gets you to heaven.

Tit 3:5  Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Tit 3:6  Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
Tit 3:7  That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

[airIam2worship]

Amen PR


The following Scriptures show God's plan for man:

Eph 1:3 ¶ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
lEph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;
Eph 1:8 Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;



The following Scriptures tell us Jesus is God

Joh 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

This includes satan, who was created by God, and is not the spiritual brother of Jesus, but rather created by Him

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


The following Scriptures tell us we were bought with the Blood of Jesus

1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1Pe 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Jesus was nailed to the cross for our sins, for our salvation, for our redemption, He bought us back from the clutches of sin and death.

The prison has been stormed, and the gates of the prison opened, but unless we eave our prison cells and go forward into the light of freedom, we are still unredeemed in actuality.
Donald Bloesch

Jesus is the Only Way, there is no other way to salvation.
I will put my trust in Him and in Him alone. In Him Who is the Creator, not in any one who is merely a creation by Him.

[Shammu]

AMEN PR and airIam2worship, God gave us his book the Bible, so God said it I believe it!

[nChrist]

Amen Brothers and Sisters! - More beautiful posts that glorify the name of our precious Lord and Saviour, JESUS CHRIST.

Many over the centuries have blasphemed HIS Name, attempted to remove HIS Deity as Very GOD, and insult HIM with man-made doctrines. For whatever reason, this has become more and more popular with so-called religious groups, books, movies, and every type of assault that one can think of. BUT, the power and reality of GOD'S WORD, JESUS, and the Cross are just as strong as they were 2,000 years ago. No man or group of men have been able to diminish the power of the Gospel of the Grace of God. GOD'S WORD is still sharper than any two-edged Sword, regardless of the number of books written by self-proclaimed prophets who don't even know GOD.

Brothers and Sisters, there will be more false prophets in these possible last days of the Age of Grace. They will be counterfeits actually working for the devil, but they will deceive many. Our best defense will be a strong foundation in GOD'S WORD, not in books written by men.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 10:8-10 NASB  But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

[Kelly4Jesus]

I dislike no one. God tells me to to hate the sin, but love the sinner. I will follow what He says to do, under His one and only law, written in the one and only, true Bible.

I have family members that converted to being JW's. I have seen them come into my grandmother's home and go "right at her" about Christianity being wrong. She always came back with love and said, "you have your beliefs and I respect that. However, respect my faith as well and don't ever put down my Lord". JW's are a cult and there is no other way to put it. I don't do DOOR TO DOOR religion sale either, which Mormon's also do. We are to witness to others about Christ, but not use scare tactics of firey death and children screaming (as on many pamphlets) to do so. His truth doesn't cause fear. His truth brings peace.

I have friends that are mormon. I respect that they are, but will never agree or condone what they teach. One major issue we always come to is the Trinity. Mormon's don't believe in it, nor do they believe in other things that are in our bible. They also have their own teachings about Jesus, which I have seen but refuse to read. As for someone saying ANYONE is greater than Christ, I firmly oppose false prophets, as the bible tells me to. NO ONE is greater than Christ and never will be. Father, Son, Holy Spirit are all one. There will never be any greater, no matter how much one might believe they are. Enough said on that subject.

I follow one teaching--Christianity as taught through the Holy Bible. Praise Jesus!

God Bless,
Kelly

[ibTina]

At the tender age of about 15 I became interested in the Mormon church due to being a fan of the Osmonds and ended up joinging it.  A few years went by and I got married ( he is NOT a Mormon... THANK GOD) and drited away from going to church. I must have been in my mid 20's, but the yearning for God was once again burning in my soul. I started watching some of the great programs on TBN and that is when IT hit me... what was missing from the Mormon church.. JESUS!!!  I was missing HIM!!! Then I remembered when I was younger how much I Loved Him and how much He was the center of my heart!  Without Jesus... there is NOTHING! That is one lesson that I will never forget!
         When or if you encounter a Mormon.... let Jesus really shine through... let His Love reach out to them....because that IS what they are missing.

      In His service... Tina

[Brother Jerry]

pumkin,

How many years ago was the Bible created?  Who knows cause as John states in the beginning there was the Word.  Now as far as when was the Bible as we know it compiled and "put together"? The OT was no later than 150BC.  The NT was in all actuality within the 1st or 2nd century. 

How many books are in the Bible?  66.  39 in the OT and 27 in the NT.  Now if you really want to get technical about it there are 43 in the OT and 23 in the NT.  The 4 Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were actually OT since the NT actually starts with resurrection, thus most of the 4 Gospels were before that and could actually be classified as OT scripture....but that is a topic for another day

How do we know that we have an accurate, unchanged accout of those books?
This is always a good one.  1st off historians and scholars alike will comment on how the Jewish people are meticulous in their transferring their scripture from one generation to the next.  There was a group of Jewish scribes that actually had a checksum in their copying.  If the math did not line up when they were finished with a section they would throw the entire section away and start over.  If the entire book they were working on did not match up then the whole book would be tossed and started over.  Archeology has shown that with the thousands of manuscripts, fragments, scrolls, etc that we have found from antiquity that OT has remained intact from as far back as the 1st-2nd century BC.  And the same can be said of the thousands of the same for the NT as well (just not BC, but more like 3rd-4th AD). 

ON top of the physical evidence that shows us that the Bible we have today is in the same state as it was about 2000 years ago we can look at the nature of God who is the true author of the Bible.  Would God allow His Word to be corrupted?  No. 

Are we putting faith that what we have is unaltered and accurate.  Sure we are.  But the evidence is showing that we are correct in that faith.  THe Bible has been unchanged for 2000 years it is safe to assume that the OT was unchanged for 4000+ years before that as well.

Why can there not be prophets in these last days?  Quite honestly there is no need.  Jesus was the greatest of prophets being God...who better to state the desire of God than God Himself?!  The important thing to note is that even if there were further prophets they would not teach anything against the Word of God.  Look at the prophets of the OT.  Not only do they refer from one to another but they NEVER counter or contradict what God has said.

So all in all if we can safely trust that the Bible as we know it is accurate and has not been changed.  Which is not a leap of faith but historically shown to be that through the many findings of ancient pieces and such.  Now we also know there will be no further covenants for Jesus taught us that He was it.  But even in Hebrews 13:20 lets us know the covenant is eternal "Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant"

Many have already addressed the comments about a "dislike for fellow man."  Not the man but sin. 

You also mentioned something of "believe that everyone has their own 'free agency" which is not true Biblically.  Jesus told us that there is but one way, and that was through him.  It is Jesus who acts as our agent.  And it is God, through Jesus, who provided us the path needed.  There was no negotiating our route to Heaven.  Paul and the others let us know that it was not through works that we gain salvation, it is not from anything we do but by the grace of Jesus that we gain acceptance into Heaven. 

You had also said "At the end of the day, it is not you who will sit in judgement of them, so why worry?  Concentrate on your own shortcomings and try save yourselves first. "  And as a Christian we are to do both.  We are to be examples (thus ensuring we are walking correctly).  Examples to who?  To the unsaved.  If we were to only worry of our own shortcomings before worrying about other people then we are selfish.  And we are not in accordance with Jesus.  Jesus told us that if a man were to ask for our coat we should also give him our shirt.  Above and beyond.  The reason we "worry" about our selves and our walk with Jesus is because we want to be an example to those that are unsaved.  It is because we have been given a Great Commission to teach the Word of Jesus to the world that we keep our walk Christlike.  Such a vicious circle   But because of our love for other people and not of ourselves we try to keep our spiritual life as well as secular life glorious to Jesus.

I am sure I speak for many here when I say that we love you and will pray for you.

Sincerely
Brother Jerry

[LuckyStrike]

Greetings in the name of Christ Jesus, pumkin. I wish to offer a small rebuttal.

How many years ago was the Bible created?  How many books are in the Bible?  How do we know that we have an accurate, unchanged account of those books?  These books are written by man many hundreds of years ago, how do we really know they are accurate and that they weren't changed to suit the churches of those days?

There may be faults in the Church. I will not deny that.  There may be questions which need answering.  But that is in any religion, even the Christian one.

This is a red herring. You are attempting to undermine the Bible in order to elevate the Book of Mormon. However, we are discussing the reliability of Mormon documents and teachings, not the reliability of the Bible.

For instance, Mormonism teaches the existence of multiple Gods (D&C 121:32, D&C 121:28, D&C 132:20, etc.), while Biblical Scripture teaches the existence of only one God (Isaiah 45:5). In response, Mormon apologists must insert unwarranted presuppositions into the Biblical text to harmonize these contradictory teachings.

How do we know that Joseph Smith wasn't a prophet of God?

You are engaging in a negative burden of proof logical fallacy. The person making the positive proposition bears the burden of proof, not vice versa.

How do you know that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God? For instance, consider the "Golden Tablets," which are Joseph Smith's primary "accomplishment." The Church of Latter-Day Saints claims that the "Golden Tablets" were written in "Ancient Reformed Egyptian" hieroglyphics. However, there is no evidence that this style of hieroglyphics exists. To the contrary, Mormon apologists try to circumvent this problem by equivocating different existing dialects of Egyptian hieroglyphics with "Ancient Reformed Egyptian" hieroglyphics. But, since no tangible sample of "Ancient Reformed Egyptian" exists, this response relies on unsubstantiated plausibility.

Moreover, there is no evidence that the "Golden Tablets" existed. Only Joseph Smith saw, read, and translated the alleged physical tablets, which means that his "translations" rely on self-validation. The contents of the "Golden Plates" could have been meaningless demonic scribble produced by Smith's occultic practices, but how could the observer know the difference? 

This question raises certain concerns, which start with the Book of Mormon's inaccurate historical claims. For instance, the Book of Mormon claims that "barley" (Mosiah 7:22, Mosiah 9:9, Alma 11:7, 15), "wheat" (Mosiah 9:9), and "coins" (Alma 11:7, 15) existed in ancient America, between 600 B.C. and 421 A.D. However, since there is no archeological or historical evidence to support these claims, Mormon apologists claim that these words have uncertain meanings.

Moreover, why is there no archeological evidence left behind by the Lamanites, Nephites, Jaredites, and Mulekites in ancient America, between 600 B.C. and 421 A.D.? They used cement (Helaman 3:7, 11), hard metals like steel and iron (Jarom 1:8, 2 Nephi 5:15, 16, etc.), horses (Enos 1:21, Alma 18:9, 3 Nephi 3:22, 3 Nephi 6:1, etc.), and other farm animals (Enos 1:21, 3 Nephi 3:22, 3 Nephi 6:1, etc.), correct? 

I could continue with more examples, but I believe that the point is made.

Why can there not be prophets in these last days?

This is a strawman argument. The issue is not about the existence of Biblical prophets, but questioning the credibility of Joseph Smith's status as a prophet.

Who are you to judge others?

The spiritual man judges all things (1 Corinthians 2:15), which requires the testing of all things (1 Thessalonians 5:21). This prerogative includes the righteous judgment of fellow believers (1 Corinthians 5:12).

And I did worship with them, why?  Because contrary to what people want to believe, we love Jesus Christ as our saviour.

This is incorrect. The LDS believes in Conditional Salvation, or a works-based salvation (ref. reading). How can Christ Jesus save us, if his substitutional sacrifice on the cross is not an all-sufficient atonement (Hebrews 10:12-14, Hebrews 7:27 + Hebrews 9:25-28, 1 Peter 3:18)? Salvation by grace precludes works, otherwise grace ceases to be grace (Romans 11:6), no?

[1Tim]

If the BoM is compareable to the BiBle, as it says in the introduction to the BoM,  and as you stated Pumkin, that the Bible us unreliable as a source of truth, then it must be the case that the Book of Mormon is also unreliable as a source of truth.

Are you in the habit of believing something is true, that you know to be false?

[Kelly4Jesus]

First of all, I am not Protestant, Catholic or any denomination started by man. I follow Christ--I am a Christian. There is no other name for it.

Secondly, the Bible has been disputed by "so called experts" for years, but they have yet to disprove anything in the Bible that is recorded. As of this date in time, NOTHING can be disproved in the Bible for content, date or recorded miracles. However, the Bible has been proved, time and time again as being the correct (and only) book about God. Many have tried to follow it (See the Da Vinci Code post where I put the dates for each different book that was ever written--the New Testament is the only one published soon after the death and resurrection of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ) in other books and doctrines but most can be disproved. The Bible, as of yet cannot! That says something, doesn't it?

Any other book written from any "religion" is false doctrine. The only true doctrine from God and about Jesus is THE BIBLE. It doesn't matter which version you read, as long as it states "THE HOLY BIBLE" on it. The only true lawmaker is God. Although other religions have laws of their own that they make their members abide by, the only TRUE LAW, not made by man is the Law of God! Jesus Christ is God. AKA==the Trinity!

I have had enough of the DOOR TO DOOR RELIGION SALESMEN this week, coming in pairs of two and trying to throw hellfire and damnation in my face if I don't convert to their beliefs. Mormon also goes door to door. Christians, who believe that Jesus is the one and only true Savior and the son of God don't have to go door to door to sell their beliefs. The truth speaks for itself. As for fire and damnation, I don't have to worry about it. I follow the Life, the Truth and the Way--Jesus Christ. Through Him I will go to my Heavenly Father and no one on earth can tell me otherwise. I only listen to Jesus.

There, I made my spew. Take it as you will. It doesn't matter to me what may be disputed by what I wrote--the truth is, Jesus is the only One that can dispute anything==and I know He won't, for He is the only truth.

God Bless,
Kelly

[1Tim]

I invite you to visit my blog.

http://members.christiansunite.com/blogging.cgi

I wrote "Defeating Mormonism at the Door" for the youth group at church, specifically, and generally, for anyone who see's the value in useing their own books against them.  Right after the 10 pages of text, is an alphabetical list of their "scriptures" I referr to in the text.

Let me know how I did--if it's understandable and all that.  I ain't a wrighter, so if something needs to be communicated clearer, let me know.   


A couple definitions of Mormon names:

Lehi--jawbone of an ass- Judges 15:17

Mormon--Greek word, one meaning is "monster".  In the Satanic Bible, by Anton Szandor LaVey, pg. 145, Mormo is listed as one of the "infernal names".  On pg. 59, ' Mormo' is listed as the Greek king of the Ghouls

Moroni--moron with an 'I' added.

Mammon--Aramaic god of wealth and profit.  In the Book of Mormon, the word Mammon is capatolized, they knew it was a proper name.( 3 Nephi 13:24, Matthew 6:24)

[lefty]

Taken from the "Official Morman website," morman.org

"Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is Heavenly Father’s Only Begotten Son in the flesh. He is our Redeemer. Through Jesus Christ, Heavenly Father has provided a way for all people to become like Him and return to live with Him forever.

We love Christ. We worship Christ. He is our example and our Savior."

As for myself, I have never thought Mormans were all bound for hell, just as I don't believe all Catholics are bound for hell. It is about a personal relationship with Jesus, as the Son of our living God - end of story. Accept Jesus as your savior and make Him Lord of your life!

[Soldier4Christ]

As pointed out above Mormonism is a cult. The wording used on their site is very deceiving as they believe that Jesus was and is a completely different entity from God and many more things that are definitely not taught in the Bible. They hold their other books as having more importance than the Bible.