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Author Topic: Abortion, Who is Responsible?  (Read 2765 times)
ollie
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« on: July 24, 2004, 08:08:47 AM »

Matthew 28:18.  "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19.  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20.  Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen."

Democrats and Republicans have made abortion law. It has become a lawful choice for American women.
Since it has become a thing of choice and if the wrong choice is being made perhaps the silence of Christ's people are to blame for all the murder of the unborn, not the lawmakers.

Go ye therefore.........Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you

Perhaps we are failing as Christians to win folks to Christ. To observe that one does not kill babies in the womb. That one does not have sex outside the marriage union that produces unwanted children. That one should maintain control of body functions and not give in to basic urges. That one should exercise common sense and stop to realize the responsibility of a sexual union. That it can produce human life. And are the two in union in a place in life to be resonsible for that new life.

Winning people to God through Christ should create the right choices and law or no law of man, God's will be done.
Perhaps all this has been put in place by God to light a fire under us to get up and go.

Ollie  
 
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2004, 01:50:40 PM »

Hi Ollie,

I agree with you on the wide range of folks responsible for abortion.  

I want to admit that I'm not on the churchianically correct position on abortion because of two reasons that I haven't been able to get passed.  My first reason is that I think in our nation today if abortions were suddenly illegal it would be like the DEA fighting the war on drugs only much worse because pregnant women would be involved.  I think it would be much harder for pro-life people to help in situations--over all I am just scared about our ability to legislate and in-ability to enforce what we legislate as a group of voters.  My second reason is that I'm not convinced of when life really starts, but I'm sure by six months it's a life and if a person wanted to have an abortion, six months is TOO LATE!  You snooze, you loose your right to choose!   I would want them to do it quickly--not wait an exta day!  Just do it quickly.  That sounds so much like Christ's words to Judas, doesn't it?  

What I want to do is have a campaign that holds men and boys accountable for the intentions toward females.  In every aspect of females and males relating, I think that men need to be held accountable if their intentions aren't noble.  They need to know that it's wrong and INCORRECT to develop all sorts of strategies to try to figure out how to get their way with a girl or a woman.  They only have certain intentions and they aren't noble and EVERYONE NEEDS TO KNOW IT'S WRONG and EVIL and even thinking about a woman better be with noble intentions or they're EVIL.  I wish we could have a national campaign about that and then always end the un-noble intentions with an abortion.  Because essentially that's really what happens.  If we wait around for a pregnancy to happen, it's kind of late in the game for pro-lifers.  I think we need to take action right where the seeds of lust are planted that sprout and produce fruit--dead fruit if it ends up in abortion.

Let's hold men and boys accountable for their thoughts and intentions toward women and girls.  I think this would be a smart move.  

I think if it gets to the stage where people are talking about "protection" Even then it's too late.  I think the abortion issue needs to be fought on the ground where the seeds of lust are planted in people's brains.  

I think women and young girls need to be armed with the sword of the spirit in asking "What are this man's intentions toward me?Huh?"  Very often I come accross men who try to give me all this time and attention, and I used to think it was so nice to have until I realized most of the intentions of these men are far less than noble.  I think we should be on a mission of convicting men of their intentions.  Save lives, homes, and families and futures that way--hit the ground where the seeds are planted and do not let them grow into death crops.

Another way I think an impact can be made this abortion issue.  Hit it where it starts.  So many people take their stand on the abortion issue based on the idea that we have no power over men's intentions.  Start the war at the intentions.  

I get so tired of hearing that lust is okay.  and that making all sorts of moves toward a woman with only one intention in mind is kosher and then saying the abortion issue is not related to this behavior.  The abortion issue starts at men's intentions toward women.

See, the way I see it, when people say, "Baby Killers are EVIL" boys and men in general don't feel like they have anything to do with that.  They think about women--(and of course the one they brought home last night isn't one of them) and abortion doctors.  

If the focus was on the intention toward a woman IS EVIL if your intentions are not noble, then boys and men would know that this specifically refers to themselves and their behavior.  At least the audience would be larger and thereby more effective.

Peace
« Last Edit: July 24, 2004, 03:52:42 PM by Candice Cavalier » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2004, 11:06:58 PM »

Liberal Society is responsible.  The 'society' where the "Real Christian", the Bible believing, Jesus loving Christian, is a minority.  

Excuse me for such a short reply to your post, Ollie - I need to go weep, now.  Cry
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« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2004, 07:46:22 AM »

http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_why.htm

Why women want to have an abortion:
The vast majority (in excess of 90%) of abortions are sought for personal reasons: 21% feel that they do not have the financial resources to bring up a child.
 21% feel that they are not ready for the responsibility of bringing up a child.
 16% feel that their life would be changed too much. She might have a plan for her future (education, developing a career, etc.) that does not allow for having a child at the present time. She might be looking after an elderly parent and does not have sufficient time or energy to commit to a baby.
 12% feel that her relationship with her partner is in difficulty.
 11% feel that they are too young, and not sufficiently mature to become a mother.
 In 8% of the cases, her children are grown and she does not want to start another family, or that she has all the children that she wants.
 Some of these reasons may be influenced by: Pressure from the father or from her parents to have an abortion.
 She feels that she lacks the emotional and physical strength to go through another pregnancy and raise the child.
 She believes that raising an additional child would short-change her existing children.
 She is a student and/or without a partner; she feels that raising a child would be too difficult and disruptive at her time in life.
 She doesn't want other people to know that she became pregnant.
 A child would interfere with her career or education.
 She may fear physical abuse from a parent if they learn of her pregnancy.
 She may fear being tossed out onto the street by a parent if they learn of her pregnancy.
 In the case of a multiple pregnancy, the woman may be faced with giving birth to more newborns than she feels she can deal with.  
 
Sorry Candace... I don't agree that it's all HIS fault..... Wink
Quote
What I want to do is have a campaign that holds men and boys accountable for the intentions toward females.
Like women aren't ever guilty of lust.... Tongue

How about holding 'people' accountable?  Cool
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« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2004, 07:59:04 AM »

"For many young people today, sexual expression is often the only way to feel loved. Becoming pregnant, or causing pregnancy, is a tragic outcome of that quest for intimacy."

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/abortion/5ways.html

And that reason has nothing to do with Democrat or Republican.... Roll Eyes
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ollie
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2004, 08:44:16 AM »

 1 Corinthians 7:1.  Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
 2.  Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

 3.  Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
 4.  The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
 5.  Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
 6.  But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
 7.  For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
 8. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
 9.  But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.


Paul says he speaks this by permission and not of commandment. It is the Lord that has given him permission to speak it therefore it should be part of the teaching of Christians to those in ignorance. Should it not? America today seems to reflect that the message is either not being relayed or the hearts of Americans are such that they do not respond when it is. Our lawmakers show by some laws enacted and enforced that the things Christ said teach to observe are not reflective  in the lawmaking. All we can do is teach, we can not be responsible for the response to the teachings. But are we teaching? We are a people that have laid hold on eternal life. Where is our joy, our exuberance, our love? All we here is abortion, gay preachers/priests, etc. etc. This is because of the media. The Christian voice of Christ should rise above it and be heard.


Mens attitudes toward women and womens attitudes toward men should come into line with Christ if their heart is such that it opens up to the Holy Spirit of His word. However the word has to be preached and refered to in the Bible if the unknowing are to become knowing. God will choose the ready heart through belief in this word and prick it to come to Jesus Christ in obedience to His word..

Ollie
« Last Edit: July 25, 2004, 08:46:48 AM by ollie » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2004, 09:26:40 AM »

Some very good points Ollie!   This should stir our hearts to work harder for the Lord, but I think its important to keep in mind too, that a lot of the world even through judgment will not desire to change their hearts.

Rev 9:21  Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

And this being after an enormous showing of Gods wrath upon wickedness.   Even the disciples were told to shake the dust off their feet in those cities where truth would not be heard.   The wickedness of mans heart in a lot of cases will not be due to not having heard or even seen the truth.  It will be due to not having accepted it.   I still say the blame lies with those who refuse to accept it.  Most Americans I know are all too aware of the Christian Biblical viewpoint regarding this.  Yet they wont accept it.  Who is responsible for that?

Just something else to think about.

Grace and Peace!
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« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2004, 03:45:37 PM »

Mens attitudes toward women and womens attitudes toward men should come into line with Christ if their heart is such that it opens up to the Holy Spirit of His word. However the word has to be preached and refered to in the Bible if the unknowing are to become knowing. God will choose the ready heart through belief in this word and prick it to come to Jesus Christ in obedience to His word..

Here's a wild thought..... Maybe we could get back to the basics and get God's Word back into families and maybe raise our children according to Scripture while ourselves following Scripture. Just kinda seems like the more educated our society becomes, the more society thinks they know better than God.... Roll Eyes I know, I know..... Too radical.
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ollie
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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2004, 06:39:50 PM »

Some very good points Ollie!   This should stir our hearts to work harder for the Lord, but I think its important to keep in mind too, that a lot of the world even through judgment will not desire to change their hearts.

Rev 9:21  Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

And this being after an enormous showing of Gods wrath upon wickedness.   Even the disciples were told to shake the dust off their feet in those cities where truth would not be heard.   The wickedness of mans heart in a lot of cases will not be due to not having heard or even seen the truth.  It will be due to not having accepted it.   I still say the blame lies with those who refuse to accept it.  Most Americans I know are all too aware of the Christian Biblical viewpoint regarding this.  Yet they wont accept it.  Who is responsible for that?

Just something else to think about.

Grace and Peace!
Yes, one can lead a horse to water but one cannot make him/her drink. At least though the leading to the water has happened. That is all one can do.

Ollie
« Last Edit: July 25, 2004, 06:41:03 PM by ollie » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2004, 06:43:46 PM »

Mens attitudes toward women and womens attitudes toward men should come into line with Christ if their heart is such that it opens up to the Holy Spirit of His word. However the word has to be preached and refered to in the Bible if the unknowing are to become knowing. God will choose the ready heart through belief in this word and prick it to come to Jesus Christ in obedience to His word..

Here's a wild thought..... Maybe we could get back to the basics and get God's Word back into families and maybe raise our children according to Scripture while ourselves following Scripture. Just kinda seems like the more educated our society becomes, the more society thinks they know better than God.... Roll Eyes I know, I know..... Too radical.
Not radical at all, but the way to  ending most of the dumb problems we create for ourselves.

Ollie
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« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2004, 09:17:08 PM »

How far have we sunk into the muck of satan's lies?
Our society today is a cesspool of lust and perversion. Our children are no longer able to have a childhood. The mass media has buried innocence under a mountain of filth and lies. We shouldn't have to be discussing (when does life begin) in order to make us feel ok with abortion. Do Christians really believe God inserted a "cut off" period? The things we come up with to excuse our sins would be laughable, if it wasn't for the fact that our eternal destinations depend on our obedience to God, and not our ability to come up with "justifiable" excuses to bypass His commands.

 The following is off topic, but it goes to show how far off track our society is in relation to God's Will.

 I'm talking about our children, and how society views them.
I'm also talking about how we, as a society have failed our children on the whole. I believe abortion is an indication of our total lack of respect toward our children, but there's much, much more.

 My heart breaks every time I see a nine or ten year old girl (some even younger) wearing a mini skirt and a skimpy halter top. Their lips smeared with thick lipstick and eyes coated in mascara. This is mainstream today. No longer do I see them skipping rope, I see them smoking cigarettes - I see them dancing provocative dances at all hours of the night. No longer is the single mom an oddity, it seems to be more the reverse. How many times do our children have to be attacked, only to see the scum get off with a couple of years.

 I believe that the media's depiction of our children as sex symbols, and the fact that God has been relegated to the realm of myth by the powerful minority has a direct connection to the sickening rise in these attacks that were unheard of only twenty or so years ago.
 Our children suffer, but the giant mass media monster  keeps hungrily devouring everyone and everything in it's path - morals - decency, all in the name of free speech and free enterprise, damn the consequences!

 The time is quickly approaching when these monstrosities will be plowed over my friends, and the world will be as God intended it to be.

 satan fell in love with himself and believed his own lie - the same has happened to many of us. There used to be a time when Dad went to work, and Mom stayed at home to run the house and raise the children. Somewhere down the road, this became an insult to women's intelligence and abilities. So both parents went to work, and "someone else" raised the children.

 Look at our generation people - our kids are angry and cold - divorce is rampant - Moms have many kids with different fathers, and not one father is at home - Fathers have children and abandon them - Drug addiction is ravenous - Perverts stalk our children! and the law is too spineless to lock this scum up and throw away the key! These animals do not deserve to ever be free again! - Kids killing kids - Kids take weapons to school for protection - God is a curse word!

 God got tossed out of our schools, out of our courts, no wonder we're in the mess were in! There was a time when Johnny wanted to be like his idol - his Dad. There was a time when Suzy wanted to be a housewife, just like Mom, it was a noble goal. Now a housewife is almost equal to a welfare case! This is satan's world, not God's.

 Ask any young person what he/she wants to be. A plumber? A mechanic? A Nurse? Try a Rock Star, or a Movie Star. Kids see all the splendor of the world and desire after it, they believe they deserve it. The media has them hypnotized into the great lie, "Who'll be the next American Idol"? Thousands show up to try out every time the auditions are held, and their parents are right there encouraging them. I wouldn't put my kids into the hands of those vultures even if I was guaranteed he would win!  How many of those parents encourage those kids to show up at God's house on Sunday?

 satan looked upon the face of God...satan knew without a doubt that God was all powerful, all mighty God of eternity...and yet, even he disobeyed.

 Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!  


 Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:  


 Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.  


 Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.  

 I know I seem angry... I guess I am. I get that way when I hear "when does life begin" as a preface to legitimize killing an unborn child. I'm not angry at anyone in particular, just at the idea that God would sanction abortion at any stage of life. I am also saddened by the state our children are in today, and how society uses and abuses them for profit.

Bronzesnake
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« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2004, 09:40:49 PM »

If men were responsible and would keep their pants zipped, the abortion rate would be cut by 95%.  (That statistic is grabbed from 'space'.)

Unfortunately, with “role models” like BILL CLINTON, that goal is all but lost.  If we ever had a chance of regaining the image of male virginity until marriage being virtuous, and male monogamy after marriage as virtuous, Bill Clinton (and those who worship Bill Clinton), destroyed it and celebrate the fact they destroyed it.  

Satan is in temporary control of the world.  May Jesus come quickly and smite Satan's ugly reign.
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« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2004, 05:36:52 PM »

I believe that all who are involved in the murder of innocent
children; oh yeah we make it sound nice by saying words
like abortion; are guilty. By this I mean the mother, the father
the doctor and his staff.

There is one more group that I think holds blame as well. That is  all of the christians that stand back and do nothing
to see the kingdom of G-d restored to this country. We have
stood back as passive people, afraid to be seen and heard,
and have let the enemy of our souls have free reign. Now we
want to say oh woe is me!

We need to learn that the greatest weapon on this earth to
battle the evil therein is to get down upon our knees and
begin to bombard heaven with our prayers.

respectfully yours in Yeshua:

ravenloche
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if not you, who? if not now, when?
if not here, where? if it is to be it is up to me!
John 3:17 for he came not into the world to condemn the world, but that the world thru him might be saved! Rom 8:1 there is therefore no con-
demnation to those who are in
christ Jesus...
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« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2004, 08:16:33 PM »

I believe that all who are involved in the murder of innocent
children; oh yeah we make it sound nice by saying words
like abortion; are guilty. By this I mean the mother, the father
the doctor and his staff.

There is one more group that I think holds blame as well. That is  all of the christians that stand back and do nothing
to see the kingdom of G-d restored to this country. We have
stood back as passive people, afraid to be seen and heard,
and have let the enemy of our souls have free reign. Now we
want to say oh woe is me!

We need to learn that the greatest weapon on this earth to
battle the evil therein is to get down upon our knees and
begin to bombard heaven with our prayers.

respectfully yours in Yeshua:

ravenloche

 Absolutely my friend! Well done!

bronzesnake
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« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2004, 10:11:25 PM »

I believe that all who are involved in the murder of innocent
children; oh yeah we make it sound nice by saying words
like abortion; are guilty. By this I mean the mother, the father
the doctor and his staff.

There is one more group that I think holds blame as well. That is  all of the christians that stand back and do nothing
to see the kingdom of G-d restored to this country. We have
stood back as passive people, afraid to be seen and heard,
and have let the enemy of our souls have free reign. Now we
want to say oh woe is me!

We need to learn that the greatest weapon on this earth to
battle the evil therein is to get down upon our knees and
begin to bombard heaven with our prayers.

respectfully yours in Yeshua:

ravenloche
I couldn't agree more, great post ravenloche.
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