Our Purpose

[lightsavour]

 My question stems from what I see as an age old problem. The New Testament teaching shows a sinner being reached and saved and going on to live for the Lord. However, there are different wordings of our Christian experiance/life, and much teaching we have received in life, that is either correct or false.

 My question is.....

 Do we do the works of the Lord? (specific things in our lives are considered works...)  
                      or..................
 Do we live the work of the Lord? (every step/moment or day is just as valid in the life of a Christian as every other step/moment or day.)

 I think this may be a stumblingblock to people, and for very clear reasons. However I'd like to hear your input before I comment, so feel free.
God bless you all.

[Petro]

Before launching on a survey, it would seem to me, one must define "WORK"

And what is of God, and what isn't??

No one is saved by Works, this is clear from scripture, yet,

the natural man in us, wants to work, to achieve what is not able to be achieved by any type of human work.

So, the problem and danger is this, that the relative good, a man is able to do, he might  consider ultimate good.

Yet the only ultimate good any man can do is when he does all things for the glory of God.

So motive is very much a part of the equation, which distorts the object of ones faith.

What works are you speaking of??


Blessings,

Petro

[lightsavour]

 Petro, I understand your precaution to my question, however I dont believe it was necessary. I explained that we are redeemed by the work of the cross. I also explained that there are misunderstandings concerning the work or works we are to do while left here in this sphere.

 As I see it is being asked to clarify works, that is almost me answering my own question. Yet I will do it.

 Work as a word for me to understand concerning my Christian walk is one of desire. I desire to do something for God. (I dont want to answer my own question, and to follow up what I've just said would be to do so.)

 All that are genuinely saved "desire" to do something for God. I use work to outline the idea people have of what they are doing day by day.

 My questions is...  is it different "works"....
                       or is it that each moment is simply a moment lived with the desire to please God... and that is our work?

 I'm sorry that my first post was not more clear, I thought it would be. I just dont want to be so obvious for everyone that they dont have to explain the word "work" themselves... those that enter into this question that is.

 God bless.

[Petro]

lightsavior,

I understand now what you are asking.

The problem is that the word "works" in the theology of religion, has become a bad word, used by those who hold to a works , faith gosple, of course the favorite verse for this thought is found in James 2.  

And, here the scriptures are not identifying a specific work whichg must be done, but simply making the statement, that those who trust God, will manifest it by producing His work, and that is "to believe in Him whom He has sent" (Jhn 6:29)

As I see it, all that is done to the glory of God, is the work of God given to men that ultimately He might be praised, and Glorified.

And it is all done by faith, for whatsoever in not of faith is sin..


Christians should work for the Lord, this is the reason why we are saved; we are the work of God created for the purpose of "Good Works" (Eph 2:10).

Our works should be motivated by love for God and for others not self interest (this is why I mentioned Motives).

Only by good works can the elect, reflect whose child they are, and whether they are being obedient to God (1 Jhn 3:1-10)  

Works also reflect the nature of the kind of faith that saves (James 2:14-26)

All Works will in the end be judged (1 Cor 3:13-15)

And reflects the measure of commitment, one has towards his Master..


Blessings

Petro

[PastorTom]

As has been correctly said, our works cannot reconcile us with God or obtain grace for us, for this happens only through faith, that is, when we believe that our sins are forgiven for Christ's sake, who alone is the mediator who reconciles the Father.  Whoever imagines that he can accomplish this by works, or that he can merit grace, despises Christ and seeks his own way to God, contrary to the Gospel.

This teaching about faith is plainly and clearly treated by Paul in many passages, especially in Eph 2.8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God - not because of works, lest any man should boast," etc.

Good works should and must be done, not that we are to rely on them to earn grace but that we may do God's will and glorify him.  It is always faith alone that apprehends grace and forgiveness of sin.  When through faith the Holy Spirit is given, the heart is moved to do good works.  Before that, when it is without the Holy Spirit, the heart is too weak.  Moreover, it is in the power of the devil, who drives poor human beings into many sins.

This teaching about faith is not to be accused of forbidding good works but is rather to be praised for teaching that good works are to be done and for offering help as to how they may be done.  For without faith and without Christ human nature and human strength are much too weak to do good works, call upon God, have patience in suffering, love one's neighbor, diligently engage in calling which are commanded, render obedience, avoid evil lusts, etc.  Such great and genuine works cannot be done without the help of Christ, as he himself says in Jn 15.5, "Apart from me you can do nothing."

When we have faith through the presence of Christ, the Holy Spirit produces good fruits in us.  They are the good works that we do.

Shalom

[John the Baptist]

My question stems from what I see as an age old problem. The New Testament teaching shows a sinner being reached and saved and going on to live for the Lord. However, there are different wordings of our Christian experiance/life, and much teaching we have received in life, that is either correct or false.

 My question is.....

 Do we do the works of the Lord? (specific things in our lives are considered works...)  
                      or..................
 Do we live the work of the Lord? (every step/moment or day is just as valid in the life of a Christian as every other step/moment or day.)

 I think this may be a stumblingblock to people, and for very clear reasons. However I'd like to hear your input before I comment, so feel free.
God bless you all.

*******
Hi, John here:
touchy subject! You will get 'judged' at both ends of the 'spiritual' spectrum. (liberal or legalist, huh? )

My comment is that God created man to live. And that includes ALL that His creation, is comprised of. (He asks us to consider the ant?) Work in whatever way or talent one has?? He expects nothing less!

We never do our own thing. Eph. 6:12. Gen. 4:7 teaches that the DESIRE is for one or the other.

Christ's Word plainly says that a lukwarm love will be spewed out as sickening. Agape love was created & then needed to be re/created. That LOVE is the Christian's motive. All true believers start with a first love. (you have heard the saying?)

Yet, CHARACTER is neither created or re/created, it is DEVELOPED. That is why there was a tree in the midst of the garden for testing! This is the purpose of work, the provision's have been GIVEN IN CHRIST. Phil. 4:13 & 2 Cor. 12:9, & are two of many, but these are simplest to grasp perhaps? Work is the exercise for maturity.

The problem of life is working when one 'feel' like it. Mankind judges FAITH by feeling, emotion, excitment +. Yet true LOVE works if one feels like it or not. That 'developes' character!

Case in point: Say that you are a minister & you have been up most of the night attending to the Lord's business. (works)
And it is about time for the church sermon? Do you [feel] like doing this work? You do it because God has put you in that position. You do it because you LOVE HIM!

And, the best example is Christ on the cross. He felt miserable, asking the Father why He had forsaken Him? He could have delivered Himself, but that was not the CHARACTER that Christ developed in the flesh!

You ask about what kind of work? ALL kinds of 'spiritual' work.
Rom. 8:14
---John