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Author Topic: Are We in the End Times, Prophetic Signs  (Read 13906 times)
Shammu
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« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2004, 11:10:06 AM »

Quote
Who is Hal Lindsey?

DW - you definitely aren't a '70s era Jesus freak, are you!   Grin
http://www.hallindseyoracle.com/
No, I had enought worries in the 70's. Nice site though, Judge.
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Shammu
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« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2004, 03:13:15 AM »

Bumping for The_8th_Person. Grin
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« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2004, 12:07:52 AM »

With some of the changes that Pres. Putin, just put in place in Russia. We just may be on the dawning, of the age.

Putin uses war on terrorism to tighten grip on democracy
By Julius Strauss in Moscow


President Vladimir Putin announced radical changes to Russia's democratic institutions yesterday that will give the Kremlin greater power than at any time since the fall of the Soviet Union.

In what critics say amounts to a serious setback for Russian democracy, Mr Putin effectively negated the right of citizens to elect a regional representative. Instead, the country's 89 regional governors will be proposed by the president.

President Putin: it will 'make Russia safer and easier to govern'

The former KGB spy also announced that seats in the Duma allocated to single-member constituencies will be scrapped in favour of a fully proportional system.

The move will accord his United Russia party, which can already count on the backing of about two thirds of the deputies in the Duma, even greater control.

The announcement, made in an address to regional governors, follows the school siege in southern Russia that ended with the deaths of more than 300 people, half of them children.

Mr Putin suggested that his initiatives would make Russia safer and easier to govern.

But critics said he was using the terrorist attacks for political purposes. Vladimir Ryzhkov, a liberal deputy who was himself elected in a single-member constituency, said: "Such proposals have nothing to do with fighting terrorism. The Kremlin is simply using the momentum [from the school siege]."

Since coming to power five years ago Mr Putin has made no secret of his admiration for many aspects of the Soviet system. While he has pursued a pro-western foreign policy, he has heavily curbed media freedoms and brought down big businessmen who have challenged the Kremlin.

He has also done much to curb regional autonomy, a reversal of Boris Yeltsin's policy of giving the regions as much sovereignty "as they could swallow".

If, as seems certain, Mr Putin's measures are passed, the Kremlin will propose regional governors whose appointments will then be voted on by regional legislatures. It is unclear what will happen if the Kremlin's candidate is rejected.

Few dispute that many regional governors in Russia are hardly paragons of democracy. Some are corrupt and have formed alliances with unscrupulous businessmen and gangsters who have helped them win their positions.

Most Russians, who anyway associate democracy with the worst excesses of the Yeltsin era, are unlikely to complain about the changes.

But previous moves to curb the power of the regions have done little to raise standards. United Russia has a record of overlooking corrupt and even criminal activity providing that the representative is loyal to the Kremlin.

Dmitry Oreshkin, head of the Mercator analytical group, said: "In reality the governors are not very well controlled by the electorate.

"But it is counter-productive to take the initiative away from the people. The first shoots of democracy are being trampled on. This is a move towards Soviet times."

Vladimir Rimsky, an analyst with the Indem think tank, said the move was part of Mr Putin's established policy of strengthening the central bureaucracy at the expense of local control. But he said he doubted whether they would make events such as the attack on the school less likely.

He said: "The administration in Moscow is unable to see all that is happening in the regions. The Beslan events prove that. Such a vertical power structure cannot be effective in fighting terrorism because it removes all local initiative and requires a long chain of approvals for any decision.

When something like that happens decisions have to be taken quickly." However, others said Mr Putin's moves were understandable in the context of a worsening security situation.

Alexei Pushkov, a member of the Council for Foreign and Defence Policies, said: "Putin's main concern is not the development of democracy, but the enhancement of security."

Other initiatives include the creation of a unified anti-terrorism agency and appointment of a close associate, Dmitry Kozak, to oversee the northern Caucasus, which includes Chechnya, Ingushetia and Northern Ossetia.

Talk about a reversal of democracy, it now sounds like the Old U.S.S.R., is coming back. I know some of you kids don't remember M.A.D., but several of us older ones do. Hopfully its not time to "duck and tuck."

Looking up.
DW
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BigD
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« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2004, 06:43:41 AM »

DW:
IMHO there are no OT prophesies being fulfilled today in this dispensation of grace. However, I do believe that events are happening that will lead to the fulfillment of the OT prophesies. This dispensation cannot be found in OT prophesies because it "was kept secret since the world began."

The "endtime" prophesies that we find in the OT will be fulfilled in the Tribulation period. The "endtimes" that Paul speaks of have to do with the ending of the dispensation of grace.

The "entimes" had started in Acts 2:15-20, but were interrupted with the setting aside of the nation of Israel after the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7. They will resume after the rapture of the Chruch.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-9 tells us the the Chruch, the Body of Christ, will not go through the Tribulation.  

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
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« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2004, 07:01:19 AM »

DW:
IMHO there are no OT prophesies being fulfilled today in this dispensation of grace. However, I do believe that events are happening that will lead to the fulfillment of the OT prophesies. This dispensation cannot be found in OT prophesies because it "was kept secret since the world began."

The "endtime" prophesies that we find in the OT will be fulfilled in the Tribulation period. The "endtimes" that Paul speaks of have to do with the ending of the dispensation of grace.

The "entimes" had started in Acts 2:15-20, but were interrupted with the setting aside of the nation of Israel after the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7. They will resume after the rapture of the Chruch.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-9 tells us the the Chruch, the Body of Christ, will not go through the Tribulation.  

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

Right On

AMEN!!!!





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« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2004, 08:59:03 AM »

AMEN to those posts DW..I enjoyied them myself...I couldn't have put it into better words. It reminds me of a sermon i preached about a year ago on the signs of the times...if you guys wouldn't mind, i'd like to post it on here maybe tomorrow or this evening when i get home. It might have a few things to back up what dreamweaver said...it might not...only the Lord knows. well i'm off. God Bless

In Christ,
Joshua
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« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2004, 10:45:18 AM »

Quote
IMHO there are no OT prophesies being fulfilled today in this dispensation of grace.

Rev. 9:16 “and the number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them.”

The standing army of China reached 200,000,000 during the late ‘60’s, and is still at that level.

Zephaniah 3:9 “For then I will return to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.”

Following the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, the Jews living in Israel were dispersed to other parts of the Roman Empire. For almost 2,000 years, they remained in the other countries, and Hebrew became a “forgotten” or dead language. Shortly after the return of Jews to Israel in 1948, Hebrew was designated the “official” language of Israel, and is now spoken throughout the country.

Zephaniah 3:10-11 “from beyond the rivers of Ethiopia My worshippers, My dispersed ones, will bring My offerings.”

In 1984, Operation Moses airlifted 15,000 Jews who had fled from Ethiopia  to refugee camps in Sudan back to Israel. In 1991, Operation Solomon flew 20,000 more directly from Ethiopia itself. In June 1999,  an airlift of the last 3000 Jews of the Quara Jewish community in northeaster Ethiopia was begun.

Jeremiah 23:7-8 “therefore behold, the days are coming declares the Lord, when they will no longer say, as the Lord lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt, but as the Lord lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from all the countries where I have driven them. Then they will live on their own soil.

During the 1970’s and ‘80’s, there was a mass exodus of Russian Jews. In 1999, there was a dramatic increase in the number of Jewish immigrants from Russia. It continues today (2004) via the "On Wings of Eagles" repatriation program conducted by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews (IFCJ).

Revelation 13:16-17 “and he causes all, the small and the great, the rich and the poor, free men and the slaves to be give a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.”

May 10, 2003 - three members of a Florida family became the first people to receive a biochip implant, called a VeriChip. It is a small radio transmitter about the size of a grain of rice that is injected under the skin, and transmits a unique personal ID number whenever it is within a few feet of a special receiver unit.

And there are others.

No prophecies being fulfilled?

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Shammu
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« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2004, 11:27:49 AM »

AMEN to those posts DW..I enjoyied them myself...I couldn't have put it into better words. It reminds me of a sermon i preached about a year ago on the signs of the times...if you guys wouldn't mind, i'd like to post it on here maybe tomorrow or this evening when i get home. It might have a few things to back up what dreamweaver said...it might not...only the Lord knows. well i'm off. God Bless

In Christ,
Joshua
You are more then welcome to post, your sermon Josh.
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« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2004, 12:33:35 PM »

BigD posted:
"IMHO there are no OT prophesies being fulfilled today in this dispensation of grace. However, I do believe that events are happening that will lead to the fulfillment of the OT prophesies. This dispensation cannot be found in OT prophesies because it 'was kept secret since the world began.'"

Evangelist responded:
Rev. 9:16 “and the number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them.”

The standing army of China reached 200,000,000 during the late ‘60’s, and is still at that level.

BigD replies:
First of all, if you are going to quote me, do it in its entirety to get the context. This dispensation of grace is an unprophesied period of time; So how can you find in it being fulfilled in this dispensation?

We are not living in the time period of the book of the Revelation. Why are you trying to fit us into it? Being China presently has a 200,000,000 man army doesn put us into the Tribulation.  However, It might be an indication that the rapture is not too far off.
------------------------------------------

Evangelist goes on:
Zephaniah 3:9 “For then I will return to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent.”

Following the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, the Jews living in Israel were dispersed to other parts of the Roman Empire. For almost 2,000 years, they remained in the other countries, and Hebrew became a “forgotten” or dead language. Shortly after the return of Jews to Israel in 1948, Hebrew was designated the “official” language of Israel, and is now spoken throughout the country.

BigD responds:
The present state of Israel is not restored Israel of Prophesy. Present Israel came into existance through the UN. When God restores Isreal it will be "...from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates" (Genesis 15:18). Also, I do not believe that the dispersed Jews ever forgot their native language.
----------------------------------------

Evangeliest continues:
Zephaniah 3:10-11 “from beyond the rivers of Ethiopia My worshippers, My dispersed ones, will bring My offerings.”

In 1984, Operation Moses airlifted 15,000 Jews who had fled from Ethiopia  to refugee camps in Sudan back to Israel. In 1991, Operation Solomon flew 20,000 more directly from Ethiopia itself. In June 1999,  an airlift of the last 3000 Jews of the Quara Jewish community in northeaster Ethiopia was begun.

BigD responds:
Zephaniah 3:8 Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.
9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
10 From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia my suppliants, even the daughter of my dispersed, shall bring mine offering.
11 In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain.

It appears to me that the events of Zephaniah 3:10-11 will happen during the Tribulation period, NOT during the dispensation of grace.
---------------------------------------------

Evangelists continues::
Jeremiah 23:7-8 “therefore behold, the days are coming declares the Lord, when they will no longer say, as the Lord lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt, but as the Lord lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from all the countries where I have driven them. Then they will live on their own soil.”

During the 1970’s and ‘80’s, there was a mass exodus of Russian Jews. In 1999, there was a dramatic increase in the number of Jewish immigrants from Russia. It continues today (2004) via the "On Wings of Eagles" repatriation program conducted by the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews (IFCJ).

BigD responds:
Jeremiah 23
1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.
3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.
4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD.
5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
8 But, The LORD liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.

Presently, I do believe, that there are more Jews living in the United States then are in present day Israel.

Today, Israel is in a set aside condition. God is not dealing with Israel as His favorited people. Today there is no distinction between the Jew and Gentile. So WHY are you trying to fit into an unpophesied dispensation that will happen when God again deals with restsored Israel after the dispensation of grace has ended with the rapture?
-------------------------------------------

Evangelist continues:
Revelation 13:16-17 “and he causes all, the small and the great, the rich and the poor, free men and the slaves to be give a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.”

May 10, 2003 - three members of a Florida family became the first people to receive a biochip implant, called a VeriChip. It is a small radio transmitter about the size of a grain of rice that is injected under the skin, and transmits a unique personal ID number whenever it is within a few feet of a special receiver unit.

BigD responds:
Then you must think that we are presently in the Tribulation. The book of the Revelation deals with future events during the Tribulation period.
--------------------------------------------------

Evangelist continues:
And there are others.

BigD responds:
BRING THEM ON!!!
-------------------------------------------------

Evangelists asks:
No prophecies being fulfilled?

BigD responds:
Right on. However, there are events happening that will lead to the fulfillment of OT prophesies. THANK GOD the Chruch, the Body of Christ will have been raptured during this time.

God Bless.
Live Well,  Laugh Often,  Love the Lord!
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Shammu
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« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2004, 06:06:59 PM »


The "endtime" prophesies that we find in the OT will be fulfilled in the Tribulation period. The "endtimes" that Paul speaks of have to do with the ending of the dispensation of grace.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
So you are saying that, nothing going to happen till Tribulation.

Excuse me, have you read what this thread is about??

Six signs given by Jesus Christ, indicating his coming and the end times.

Matthew 24:3
Jesus was asked, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?"  Jesus told his apostles to look for  the following signs prior to his second coming and the end of the age.
1. False Prophets and Christs
Matthew 24:5 "For many will come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and will mislead many."
Matthew 24:11 "And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many."
2.  WARS
Matthew 24:6  "And you will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars; see that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end."
3.  FAMINES
Matthew 24:7 "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."
4.  EARTHQUAKES
Matthew 24:7   "For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes."
 5.  TRIBULATIONS
Matthew 24:8-9 "But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.  Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations on account of my name."
6.  THE GOSPEL WILL BE PREACHED THROUGHOUT THE WORLD
Matthew 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then the end shall come."

Two characteristics of the end of the ages from the Apostle Paul
1.  GODLESSNESS IN THE LAST DAYS
II Timothy 3:1-5,7 "But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.  For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, unloving, unforgiving, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of god; holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."
2.  Apostasy (Falling away from the Faith)
I Timothy 4:1-3  "But the spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.  By means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth."

 Eleven fulfillments of the Bible Prophecy Required for the  END OF THE AGE
1.  EXISTENCE OF A 200,000,000 MAN ARMY IN THE EAST
Revelation 9:16 "And the number of the armies of the horsemen was two hundred million; I heard the number of them."
2.  REDEVELOPMENT OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE (EUROPEAN COMMUNITY)
Daniel 2:32-33 "The head of the statue was made of fine gold, its breast and its arms of silver, its belly and its thighs of bronze, its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of clay."
3.  RETURN OF THE ONE PURE LANGUAGE, HEBREW, TO ISRAEL
Zephaniah 3:9 "For then I will return to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent."
4.  REBUILDING OF THE TEMPLE, RESTORATION OF TEMPLE WORSHIP AND ANIMAL SACRIFICES IN JERUSALEM
For several end time prophecies to be fulfilled, the temple will have to be rebuilt. So far this is one that has not been fulfi;;ed.
5.  APPEARANCE OF THE RED HEIFER AFTER 2000 YEARS
Numbers 19:2-7 "This is the statute of the law which the Lord has commanded, saying, "Speak to the sons of Israel that they bring you an unblemished red heifer in which is no defect and on which a yoke has never been placed.  "You shall give it to Eleazar the priest, and it shall be brought outside the camp and be slaughtered in his presence.  Next Eleazar the priest shall take some of its blood with his finger and sprinkle some of its blood toward the front of the tent of meeting seven times.  "Then the heifer shall be burned in his sight; its hide and its flesh and its blood, with its refuse, shall be burned.  "The priest shall then wash his clothes and bathe his body in water, and afterward come into the camp, but the priest shall be unclean until evening."
6.  INCREASE IN KNOWLEDGE AND TRAVEL
Daniel 12:4  "But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase."
7.  RETURN OF THE ETHIOPIAN JEWS TO ISRAEL
Zephaniah 3:10-11 "From beyond the rivers of Ethiopia My worshipers, My dispersed ones, will bring My offerings.  In that day you will feel no shame because of all your deeds by which you have rebelled against Me; For then I will remove from your midst your proud, exulting ones, and you will never again be haughty on My holy mountain."
8.  THE RISE OF RUSSIA
Ezekiel 38:2,4,8 "Son of man, set your face toward Gog of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him.  I will turn you about and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them splendidly attired, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them wielding swords.  After many days you will be summoned; in the latter years you will come into the land that is restored from the sword, whose inhabitants have been gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel which had been a continual waste; but its people were brought out from the nations, and they are living securely, all of them."
(This is not fulfilled yet either.)
9.  RETURN OF RUSSIAN JEWS TO ISRAEL
Jeremiah 23:7-8   "Therefore behold, the days are coming declares the Lord, when they will no longer say, as the Lord lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt, but as the Lord lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from all the countries where I have driven them.  Then they will live on their own soil."
 10.  TECHNOLOGY FOR THE MARK OF THE BEAST
Revelation 13:16-17   "And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name."
11.  PLANS FOR THE ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT
The United Nations, World Trade Organization, International Criminal Court, UN peacekeeping/police force, numerous UN NGO's, and other agencies are preliminary steps to the formation of a one world government.  We now have the communications technology, transportation, and the pro-globalization media necessary to usher in the one world government headed by the antichrist.  The increasing terrorist threat and the middle east conflict will only speed up the formation of this governing body as fear and promises of better security make more people willing to give up their national sovereignty for global governance.
12.  INSTANT COMMUNICATION AROUND THE WORLD
Revelation 11:3, 7-10   "And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophecy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.  When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.  And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.  Those from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their dead bodies for three and a half days, and will not permit their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb.  And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth."

Except for #4 and #8 all is ready for the end times to start.
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« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2004, 07:39:18 PM »

DW poste:
Quote
The Bible gives many examples of signs that should warn us of the coming end of the age.  Six such signs are given by Jesus, two characteristics are given by Paul, and eleven other occurrences are given by the prophets to occur prior to or soon after the end of the age.  While we are also told we will not know the time of the End, God obviously wanted us to know when that time was getting closer.  As the Christian church is increasingly drawn into the interfaith movement, and as more and more churches go into isolation, preparing to sleep through the growing attacks on their faith, perhaps God knew it would take a few signs to wake us up and remind us that we have work to do.  

Unfortunately, many Christians take the verses that tell us we won't know the time of His coming to mean they should ignore any and all scripture that might warn us of this time of tribulation.  Others have fallen into the trap of fearing being labeled a "conspiracy theorist" should they display an interest in the Biblical prophecies about our future on Earth.  My philosophy is simple.  God included it in the Bible and, since God is all knowing, we should trust that it is something we should know and study along with the rest of His Word.  

It is increasingly obvious that the time of our Lord's coming is drawing near.  Prophecy is being fulfilled daily, and at a faster pace than ever before.  Whether you believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, or believe Christians will be witness to the full tribulation, wrath, and final judgments, matters not.  The beginning of birth pains and the signs of the times should have the same effect on all of us.  It should motivate us to save as many souls as we can in the time that we have left.  The Great Commission tells us to be disciples to all nations, bringing the message of salvation through Christ to all people.  If the Church is raptured before the tribulation, it is important that we leave behind an explanation for the trials and judgments those left behind will face.  How else will they recognize the deception of the anti-Christ and seek instead the truth of the Bible?  If we are to endure the tribulation along side them, we will need to be prepared to not only share the message of salvation, but share with them the reasons for God's judgment and hold it up as further proof of their need to be saved.  

Below is a study of the prophetic signs God gave us as a warning of the approaching end of the age.  Many of them are being fulfilled now and many will be fulfilled in the near future.  I would encourage you to study prophecy, know what is coming and be prepared to share it with others.

Six signs given by Jesus Christ, indicating his coming and the end times.

BigD rewponds
DW, this is what I was resonding to.

My contention is that Jesus, in Matthew 3-31 is talking about events that will happen during the Tribulation period.

Verses 5-12 speak of some of the seals of Revelation that will happen during the Tribulation. Verse 13 those that endure to the end of the Tribulation will be saved and go into the kingdom. Those that don't will be taken out to judgment as verses 40 and 41 show.

WE ARE NOT LIVING IN THESE TIMES.

At the time that Jesus ministered, the dispensation of the Law was in effect and had been since the Law was given to Moses. During the Tribulation that Jesus does speak about in Matthew 24 will also be in the dispensation of the Law. However, we are not in the dispensation of the Law. The dispensation of grace was still a secret/mystery. You should NEVER read future revelation into past events. That is "wrongly dividing" the Word of truth.

There is nothing in prophesy that mentions "the Body of Christ", the Church for today, and "the rapture of the Church", the Body of Christ. Therefore, you cannot read that into OT prophesy either. It just isn't there.

The "mystery"/"secret" that Paul speaks of had been kept secret "since the world began." That includes EVERYTHING that pertains to the Church for today.

Paul tells us in 1Cor15:51-53 about the "mystery" of the rapture.

Paul speaks of the rapture of believers in 1 Thess 4:13-18. In 5:1-9 Paul tells them, in vs 9, that they will not endure the Tribulation as they have not been appointed unto wrath (The Tribulation) but will be saved (taken out to meet the Lord in the air) by our Lord Jesus Christ. They will have been raptured.

There are many that believe that the "trump" in 1 Thess 4:16 is referring to the 7th trumpet of the book of the Revelation. However, this is not so, because the book of the Revelation was not written until approx AD 90. The book of 1 Thessalonians written in approx AD 54.

This dispensation in which we now live is a ("parenthetical") period within the dispensation of the Law. When this dispensation ends, with the rapture of the Church, THEN the dispensation of the Law will resume.

The Tribulation actually started in Acts 2:15-20 but it to was interrupted, along with the dispensation of the Law, when God set Israel aside, AFTER the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7.

My contension has not changed. There are no OT prophesies being fulfilled today, however, there are events happening today that are leading up to the fulfillment of prophesy.

WE ARE NOT IN THE ENDTIME OF THE FULFILLMENT OF OT PROPHESIES!

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
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« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2004, 01:23:31 AM »

BigD said

BigD rewponds
WE ARE NOT LIVING IN THESE TIMES.

At the time that Jesus ministered, the dispensation of the Law was in effect and had been since the Law was given to Moses. During the Tribulation that Jesus does speak about in Matthew 24 will also be in the dispensation of the Law. However, we are not in the dispensation of the Law. The dispensation of grace was still a secret/mystery. You should NEVER read future revelation into past events. That is "wrongly dividing" the Word of truth.


Then how do you explain that we are on the edge of the "End Times.

Only 2 prophicies need to be fulfilled for the end times to begin.

REBUILDING OF THE TEMPLE, RESTORATION OF TEMPLE WORSHIP AND ANIMAL SACRIFICES IN JERUSALEM

THE RISE OF RUSSIA
And by some of the changes in Russia, that may be so fulfilled.

Go in peace with God.
DW
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« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2004, 02:47:56 AM »

BigD said

BigD rewponds
WE ARE NOT LIVING IN THESE TIMES.

At the time that Jesus ministered, the dispensation of the Law was in effect and had been since the Law was given to Moses. During the Tribulation that Jesus does speak about in Matthew 24 will also be in the dispensation of the Law. However, we are not in the dispensation of the Law. The dispensation of grace was still a secret/mystery. You should NEVER read future revelation into past events. That is "wrongly dividing" the Word of truth.


Then how do you explain that we are on the edge of the "End Times.

Only 2 prophicies need to be fulfilled for the end times to begin.

REBUILDING OF THE TEMPLE, RESTORATION OF TEMPLE WORSHIP AND ANIMAL SACRIFICES IN JERUSALEM

THE RISE OF RUSSIA
And by some of the changes in Russia, that may be so fulfilled.

BigD responds:
I do not recall ever saying, or implying, that we were on the edge of "End Times." What edge are you referring to, the front edge or the back edge?

Today we are living in the dispensation of grace. This dispensation could end before I finish typing this response or it could go on for another 1,000 years or longer. Every day that we have prior to the rapture is a day of God's grace. It is another day that the unsaved have the opportunity to get saved.

The "end times" (7 year Tribulation) that Jesus speaks about in Matthew 24 started in Acts 2:15-20. It was interrupted when God set the nation of Israel aside, and God ushering in the dispensation through the Apostle Paul. It will resume after the rapture of the Church.

The only thing that has to happen before the Tribulation can again resume is the rapture of the Chruch, the Body of Christ. Then God will once again be dealing with Israel as His favorite people; under the Law.

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« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2004, 03:08:24 AM »

BigD said

BigD rewponds
WE ARE NOT LIVING IN THESE TIMES.

At the time that Jesus ministered, the dispensation of the Law was in effect and had been since the Law was given to Moses. During the Tribulation that Jesus does speak about in Matthew 24 will also be in the dispensation of the Law. However, we are not in the dispensation of the Law. The dispensation of grace was still a secret/mystery. You should NEVER read future revelation into past events. That is "wrongly dividing" the Word of truth.


Then how do you explain that we are on the edge of the "End Times.

Only 2 prophicies need to be fulfilled for the end times to begin.

REBUILDING OF THE TEMPLE, RESTORATION OF TEMPLE WORSHIP AND ANIMAL SACRIFICES IN JERUSALEM

THE RISE OF RUSSIA
And by some of the changes in Russia, that may be so fulfilled.

BigD responds:
I do not recall ever saying, or implying, that we were on the edge of "End Times." What edge are you referring to, the front edge or the back edge?

Today we are living in the dispensation of grace. This dispensation could end before I finish typing this response or it could go on for another 1,000 years or longer. Every day that we have prior to the rapture is a day of God's grace. It is another day that the unsaved have the opportunity to get saved.

The "end times" (7 year Tribulation) that Jesus speaks about in Matthew 24 started in Acts 2:15-20. It was interrupted when God set the nation of Israel aside, and God ushering in the dispensation through the Apostle Paul. It will resume after the rapture of the Church.

The only thing that has to happen before the Tribulation can again resume is the rapture of the Chruch, the Body of Christ. Then God will once again be dealing with Israel as His favorite people; under the Law.


This is what this whole thread has been about BigD. We are sitting on the front edge of the end times. This is about signs that happen after the dispensation of grace.
I know of one other brother here that will be in tribulation, because of faith.

Love is....................... Jesus Christ.
DW
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« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2004, 11:06:32 PM »

Hey Ya'll, here's the sermon i asked to post...enjoy

Joshua

A few road signs...

A)   To start off with, would you guys turn with me to 2nd Timothy 3:16. This verse says, “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness”. Another person doesn’t give this inspiration; The Lord, God Almighty, gives it. The Bible has been called a hoax; just a crutch to lean on in times of trouble, but that isn’t so. This has helped me many times, but it’s also convicted my heart many times. This book can morph before your very eyes if you aren’t paying attention. This seemingly lifeless book is, in fact, alive and it’ll give you a spiritual whoopin’, but God will also use this book to heal you spiritually. It’s Alive! Hebrews 4:12 says” For the Lord is quick and powerful and shaper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder(Gift) of soul, and spirit, and of the joints and the marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the Heart. I say this because God speaks to His people through His word. All we have to do is stop and listen. 1 Kings 19:11-12 says: 11And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake:12And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.” Just as God spoke to Elijah, He’ll speak to us through His Word. Also, did you know that the Bible is a History book, a poetry book, a book of predictions, a book that can point the way to the Saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, a book of conviction, redemption, and Salvation all rolled into one. You probably did, but now tell me, what other book is there, anywhere in the entire world, that is jammed packed with prophecies that were made 2,500 years ago and are being fulfilled to the tiniest detail before our very eyes. I didn’t think so. There are over 2,000 total prophecies in the Bible dealing with the rebirth of Israel and God’s Plan for the last days, and many have been fulfilled. That is about 1/3 of the Bible devoted to prophecy! God must really be trying to get a message across! I want to tell you right now that these following prophecies aren’t written to scare you, but they are a sort of “road sign” letting us know that we are close to the end” I have researched 11  prophecies that have been fulfilled in the past 55 years that show we are very close to the End.
B)   Let's prove the Bible is true and we are nearing the end of the last generation before Christ returns.
    1. The Jewish people would be scattered worldwide; yet Israel would become a nation again after a long time and at a time the Bible calls the "latter days"-ref Isa 66:8
Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children. KJV
Ezek 38:8
After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.  
Against what has appeared to be impossible odds, this prophecy has been fulfilled. It happened as predicted on May 14, 1948 after about 2500 years. That’s 1 out of 1.  
    Note: Israel fell and was destroyed by the Assyrians 722 B.C. and Judah fell to the Babylonians 117 years later, but the city of Jerusalem, which was the capital of Judah at that time fell 19 years after Judah fell, to the Babylonians and thus ended the Jewish Nation of Israel. Since that time, approximately fourteen different peoples have possessed the land of Israel. Yet as the Bible said, the nation of Israel would be reborn. The rebirth of Israel was a key sign, indicating we had entered a time period called the "latter days." It was the beginning of a countdown leading to the Tribulation and culminating with the Battle of Armageddon and the return of Jesus. Along with the fulfillment of this crucial event are over 360 prophecies that would all come together, so we might recognize that the Tribulation is very close at hand. Some of these are listed here. Yet the Bible foretells that most people would not believe these things, despite the overwhelming evidence of the signs from God’s Word being fulfilled exactly as predicted. As people refused to believe the flood was coming in Noah’s time as it says in Matthew 24:37-39 “But as the days of Noah were, so shall the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days bfore the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the Ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be,” so people today willingly choose to disregard the signs of the times.
    2. Israel shall be brought forth in one day, at once-ref Isa 66:8. Prophecy fulfilled-May 14, 1948. That’s 2 out of 2.
    Note: On Nov. 29, 1947, the General Assembly of the U.N. approved a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine. On the morning of May 14, 1948 (the last day of the British mandate), a meeting of the People’s Council took place in Israel to decide on the name of the state and to finalize the declaration. At precisely 4 pm, the proclamation ceremony began at the Tel Aviv museum. The 979 Hebrew words of the Scroll of Independence were read. All stood, and the scroll was adopted. The notorious White Paper, issued by the British in 1930 restricting Jewish immigration, was declared null and void. Members of the People’s Council signed the proclamation. David Ben-Gurion rapped his gavel, declaring, "The State of Israel is established. This meeting is ended." Israel was brought forth as a nation in one day, at once, exactly as predicted. At midnight, the British soldiers and high commissioner would leave. President Truman was swift in announcing U.S. recognition of Israel. The following morning, on May 15, Israel was under attack by the Egyptian, Syrian, Lebanese, Jordanian, and Iraqi forces. Yet God protected Israel once again as He promised He would!
    3. Israel would be brought forth (or reborn) "out of the nations"-Ezek 38:8. Prophecy fulfilled-May 14, 1948. That’s 3 out of 3.
    Note: As previously stated, on Nov. 29, 1947, the General Assembly of the "United Nations" approved a resolution calling for the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine. This prophecy was perfectly fulfilled. Consider, for centuries the land of Israel had been occupied by many nations. Israel was "brought forth out of the nations"—the children of Israel from many nations have been returning to their ancient homeland. If you can’t see God, Almighty’s hand in this rebirth of a Nation that HE promised to reborn, they you sure ain’t going to see God’s hand right in front of your face showing you that Jesus Christ is the way.
    4. Israel must regain the city of Jerusalem-
Ezek 38:8
After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.
Joel 2:32
And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. KJV;
Ezek 22:19.
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye are all become dross, behold, therefore I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem.
This happened just as predicted in 1967. That’s 4 out of 4.
Note: The Bible gives us two methods so we would know the time we are in.  One is by Israel’s rebirth. The other, by a precise line of events that would all come together at one time. Israel was reborn on May 14th, 1948. The Bible indicates that from Israel’s rebirth a generation would not pass till all is fulfilled. I’m not setting any date; however, it seems clear from Israel’s rebirth and the signs of the times— that we are living in the generation in which the Rapture and Tribulation will come and catch most people by surprise.  Are you ready?
    5. The Christian church at the time of the end would be lukewarm, neither cold nor hot for Jesus. Prophecy fulfilled. That’s 5 out of 5.
    Note: God will spew them out. Many ministers and people that call themselves a Christian will not be going to heaven. The Bible tells us—you have acquired wealth, but your true condition is wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked and you don’t know it-Rev 3:14-22. This is today’s church. Most preachers use little Scripture, but lots of worldly stories. Many sing a great deal, but put little emphasis on repentance, obeying, serving, and fearing God, on the fruits of the Spirit, Bible prophecy, water baptism by immersion, and studying your Bible faithfully every day. Many are only entertainment centers that teach what their members want to hear not what they need to hear.. Many (so-called Christians) are so lukewarm or dead, they don’t even bring their Bibles with them to the house of God. Some famous ministers and Bible schools think this is the best church age ever, yet the Bible clearly shows it is the worst and most deceived.
    
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"Man is never sufficiently touched and affected by the awareness of his lowly state until he has compared himself with God's majesty" - John Calvin
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