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Author Topic: CLOSING THE TRAP: THE DRAFT  (Read 4551 times)
twobombs
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« on: June 25, 2004, 06:33:16 AM »

CLOSING THE TRAP: THE DRAFT
[Catching Those Christians Who
Think Prophecy Is Just A Game]
June 10, 2004
INTRODUCTION

Eric Rosenberg of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, reports that there is pending legislation reinstating the draft in the House and Senate (twin bills: S 89 and HR 163) in order "to provide for the common defense by requiring that ALL young persons in the United States ... perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." These active bills currently sit in the committee on armed services.

http://www.endtimesnetwork.com/oldnews/thedraft.html
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ollie
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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2004, 07:47:06 AM »

 CLOSING THE TRAP: THE DRAFT
[Catching Those Christians Who
Think Prophecy Is Just A Game]
Huh
« Last Edit: June 28, 2004, 08:22:52 PM by ollie » Logged

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Tibby
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« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2004, 10:33:41 PM »

Ok... are you trying to say this is a good thing, or a bad thing?
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Requiem
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« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2004, 09:25:55 PM »

Well there's a couple things about this...

It's been in Congress since January 7, 2003. It's really nothing new.

Also...if you read about it...

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query

It's not for a draft, its for compulsary military service for all young americans. It hasn't been passed yet, and I doubt it will...anytime soon if ever.
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Shammu
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« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2004, 10:47:07 PM »

Well there's a couple things about this...

It's been in Congress since January 7, 2003. It's really nothing new.

Also...if you read about it...

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query

It's not for a draft, its for compulsary military service for all young americans. It hasn't been passed yet, and I doubt it will...anytime soon if ever.
If it ever passes, it will be like the military service in Israel.
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Tibby
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2004, 03:08:21 AM »

Iím for it. Most people my age need the Honor, responsibility, and discipline giving by such a conservative origination like the military. Gets everyone away from mommy and daddy, on their own. And not just moving away to college, where they will most likely spend all their time getting wasted and end up moving back in. Go for it.
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Brother Love
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« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2004, 06:26:43 AM »

Iím for it. Most people my age need the Honor, responsibility, and discipline giving by such a conservative origination like the military. Gets everyone away from mommy and daddy, on their own. And not just moving away to college, where they will most likely spend all their time getting wasted and end up moving back in. Go for it.

you should know... Smiley

Tibby, "The door of grace is still open. Be reconciled
while you may. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou
shalt be saved."
« Last Edit: June 28, 2004, 06:28:52 AM by Brother Love » Logged


THINGS THAT DIFFER By C.R. Stam
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http://www.geocities.com/protestantscot/ttd/ttd_chap1.html

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« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2004, 09:29:03 AM »

Had the done this, for your generation, there maybe have been hope for you, BL. Who knows, you maybe have even found Jesus.  Smiley
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« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2004, 09:54:43 AM »

Compulsary military service for all americans both men and women is a horrible idea. Period. I could sit and list my reasoning...but I'm not gonna get a rant started. haha
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Tibby
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« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2004, 07:31:25 PM »

No, please, lets here what you have to say. Taking into account, of course, exceptions will be made for the handicap and those otherwise unable, some being except, while others being giving jobs for suited to their ability.
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ebia
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« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2004, 08:04:48 PM »

No, please, lets here what you have to say. Taking into account, of course, exceptions will be made for the handicap and those otherwise unable, some being except, while others being giving jobs for suited to their ability.
1.  Conscript armies are nothing like as effective as professional ones.  Part of the reason the US, Britain, Australia, etc have walked over the opposition so easily in Iraq, the Falklands etc is that difference.  Modern warfare is a highly skilled business, not a question of brute force.  Israel is about the only country in the world that manages to have a modern, effective, conscript army.
2.  Why should all have to go through military service because some would benefit from it?
3.  What effective arrangements are going to be made for those with moral objection to warfare, and how will you prevent that being abused by others who just want to escape from the chance of being killed?
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« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2004, 09:57:50 PM »

1.  Conscript armies are nothing like as effective as professional ones.  Part of the reason the US, Britain, Australia, etc have walked over the opposition so easily in Iraq, the Falklands etc is that difference.  Modern warfare is a highly skilled business, not a question of brute force.  Israel is about the only country in the world that manages to have a modern, effective, conscript army.

2.  Why should all have to go through military service because some would benefit from it?

I am not sure how the kids are Down underÖ I think it would aid more then a few, even for those who do not realize it. Most go to College for some semester before dropping out. They have no goal for the future, no direction. My best friend also did not pass High School now he is 3rd in his class in the Military. He is one of the many examples. I know people who had no goals and where working in a factory until they joined the military, and it gave them a direction. Is it for everyone? No. But so what. A little physical fitness and discipline never hurt anyone.


Quote
3.  What effective arrangements are going to be made for those with moral objection to warfare, and how will you prevent that being abused by others who just want to escape from the chance of being killed?

Normally, when this topic comes up, the idea of Military OR Peace Corp comes up. Everyone has the right to pick one or the other.  There are other options, of course. Some are in the Military as consensus objectors, medics and such. Here in America, the Air Force handles a lot of the space program, you can join the Air Force, as a non-combatant, in a Space program with little or no relation to War. The Navy does some deep sea exploration. The Coast Guard and National Guard are involved in rescue operations, from storms at sea, natural disasters, etc. There are any number of ways for those who do not wish to fight, or be involved in an area that might cause hard to others, to be in the military.
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twobombs
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« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2004, 05:37:43 AM »

No, please, lets here what you have to say. Taking into account, of course, exceptions will be made for the handicap and those otherwise unable, some being except, while others being giving jobs for suited to their ability.

I have trouble with my brain accepting the teaching of killing.
I want to be taught and teach the the coming of Christ.

<Rant>
When people are sooo eager to blow one another up, use nukes.
The US army is an extention of commerce; killing iraqis for oil & burgers

The trouble with the US is that they never tasted universal defeat.
Europe has landmarks, scars and even craters of war e-ve-ry-whe-re.

Dunno how large the crater needs to be to school you PPL there.
In Arizona there is a nice one that might fit the need I think...
</Rant>
« Last Edit: June 30, 2004, 05:41:11 AM by twobombs » Logged

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Tibby
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« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2004, 12:25:54 PM »

I have trouble with my brain accepting the teaching of killing.

I really don't like to insult people in debates, but with kind of statement... Grin This is a teaching taught in the bible. Have all the trouble you want with it, doesn't change a thing.


Quote
I want to be taught and teach the the coming of Christ.

Don't we all. But Christ was not always "Peace, love, and rock'n'roll." He was a man of action. When there was a job to do, he did it.Sometimes it involved whips, other times it involved words, but he are a pretty militant guy at time.

Quote
<Rant>
When people are sooo eager to blow one another up, use nukes.
The US army is an extention of commerce; killing iraqis for oil & burgers

What? Not big into thinking for yourself, I see. Sounds like you have been listening to BBC and CNN propaganda. If the USA wanted oil, it would have attacked its Oil Producing Neighbors, like Mexico and Argentina. They could have just as easily say they were tying to stop drug cartels. Not like Those countries would put up a fight. They barely have armies as it is. If they waned oil, they would open their own reveres up. But we didnít. That is a long way to go for oil when they have it in their own backyard.


Quote
The trouble with the US is that they never tasted universal defeat.
Europe has landmarks, scars and even craters of war e-ve-ry-whe-re.

Craters that we only made when forced to. 95% of those Craters, they left on themselves. They don't like craters, tell them to stop fighting. Tell them if they don't want craters, then next time they lose, don't call us to help!


Quote
Dunno how large the crater needs to be to school you PPL there.

How about 2 city blocks big?

Quote
In Arizona there is a nice one that might fit the need I think...
</Rant>
Grin Grin

Nah, Florida.
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ebia
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« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2004, 07:15:16 PM »

Quote
I am not sure how the kids are Down underÖ I think it would aid more then a few, even for those who do not realize it.

I didn't say few.  I've no idea how many except that it's neither all nor none.

Quote
Most go to College for some semester before dropping out. They have no goal for the future, no direction. My best friend also did not pass High School now he is 3rd in his class in the Military. He is one of the many examples. I know people who had no goals and where working in a factory until they joined the military, and it gave them a direction. Is it for everyone? No. But so what. A little physical fitness and discipline never hurt anyone.
Well, I'd say army discipline does hurt many - it is, by necessity, a system designed to get people to follow orders without question, and to be prepared to inflict violence on others.  Neither intrinsically good qualities for decent citizens.  On top of that it is intensely humiliating for those with little physical aptitude, just as school sport is.  Personally I think we should put the minimum number of people through military training that we can possibly manage with.

It is also a huge waste of time for those for whom it isn't right.  Should we force everyone to do first year medical school incase that's right for them.  And force everyone to spend a year painting or writing a novel in case that would improve them, etc, etc.


Quote
Normally, when this topic comes up, the idea of Military OR Peace Corp comes up.
What does Peace Corp entail.  (Serious question for those of us outside the US).

Quote
Some are in the Military as consensus objectors, medics and such. Here in America, the Air Force handles a lot of the space program, you can join the Air Force, as a non-combatant, in a Space program with little or no relation to War. The Navy does some deep sea exploration. The Coast Guard and National Guard are involved in rescue operations, from storms at sea, natural disasters, etc.

I'd have thought that those would only be able to take a very small number of unskilled conscripts.
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