What are ghosts?

[BUTCHA]

BOO!

[JudgeNot]

Butcha says:

BOO!

He-he-he.  Made me jump right out of my skin.  He-he-he.

I've got another "event" to tell you about.  Took Place at Chrome Bay, Alaska.  Let me get my geographical facts - talk to my bother again (he was our "host") and I'll get it posted...

[MalkyEL]

Gracey,

I apologize for making you think I was approaching this non-chalantly.  I am well aware of demonic manifestations and have heard of this kind of thing from others as well.  They can be frightening experiences and I did not mean to make light of them.

Again, I have to go to God's Word for my defense in times like these, just as you have.  Eph 6 says we must be armed and prepared to stand against the powers and principalities of the power of the princes of the air.  satan prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for whom he will devour.  Unless we stay in fellowship with God, being empowered by His Spirit to stand, fully equipped with His armour, we will be easy prey.  Sometimes, even then, those manifestations of evil do still come against us.  But, like the verses you quoted, if your hope and trust is in God, He will deliver you.  He will never forsake or leave His own.  Never.

I quoted "have no appearance of evil" for the benefit of those who are looking for and searching for ghosts and such.

Wondered if you would clear something up for me.  The dream you had about the man in your trailer that you wrestled with -you implied it came from God.  Could you like say why you think that?

Shalom, MalkyEL  

[Gracey]

I apologize for making you think I was approaching this non-chalantly.  I am well aware of demonic manifestations and have heard of this kind of thing from others as well.  They can be frightening experiences and I did not mean to make light of them

No need to apologize; I didn't think you were.

Eph 6 says we must be armed and prepared to stand against the powers and principalities of the power of the princes of the air.  satan prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for whom he will devour.  Unless we stay in fellowship with God, being empowered by His Spirit to stand, fully equipped with His armour, we will be easy prey.  Sometimes, even then, those manifestations of evil do still come against us.  But, like the verses you quoted, if your hope and trust is in God, He will deliver you.  He will never forsake or leave His own.  Never.

Yes, exactly so, He will never leave nor forsake us. The point to it, I think, was that we are responsible to call on His name, and to trust Him implicitly. Job was a righteous and godly man, yet God allowed Satan a "go round" with him.

The dream you had about the man in your trailer that you wrestled with -you implied it came from God.  Could you like say why you think that?

I can, and will. I was like a lot of people, back then. I thought that if I followed God, prayed and "abided" in his word, that I would have no fellowship with things of the dark. I knew satan was out there, I just never figured I would have to confront him; I was naive; I never thought he could be as real as that (physically).

I believe it was God's way of showing me that we must choose to send satan out of our lives; reminding me that through Him we have that power and that we have it for a reason. His way of telling me we must be ever vigilant; "giving ourselves continually unto prayer". He was showing me how to "wrestle" those principalities and powers; preparing me.

Does the wolf not try to steal the sheep, even with the shepherd at hand?

The two subsequent dreams (one in each of the past 2 years) were not from God; definitely not; very personal and physically repulsive; spiritually oppressing and, well, disgusting to say the least.

On waking from both of those I heard myself praying, even before I was awake enough to pray. The spirit was praying (yeah, in english) for my protection.

Gracey

[MalkyEL]

Gracey wrote:

I believe it was God's way of showing me that we must choose to send satan out of our lives; reminding me that through Him we have that power and that we have it for a reason. His way of telling me we must be ever vigilant; "giving ourselves continually unto prayer". He was showing me how to "wrestle" those principalities and powers; preparing me.

*********************
H m m m - I wonder if any of us have "power" to resist.  After my "season" of being part of a movement that believes that Christians have authority over satan, I have had to do some real Bible challenge.  In my search, I found that it is God, not us that takes control over all demonic activity.  

I was looking real close at the passage in Eph 6 and it says that we are to *stand* with God's armour.  James 4:7 says to humble ourselves before God and *resist*.

I agree we are to be vigilant and prepared as God gives us that ability.  Maybe I am just oversensitive because of all the satan bashing and rebuking I witnessed - to no avail.

I have come to realise that it is God's grace in my life that enables me, not anything I can do out of the flesh  

Shalom, Nancy  

[Gracey]

H m m m - I wonder if any of us have "power" to resist.

Yes, we do, but the power isn't ours, it's God's. Either I misstated what I meant, or it was misunderstood. The power in us isn't from us, it's God's power. I'm not saying this very well, but if you find satan working in your life, what do you do? You call upon God. "You call" and "He answers". How many of us just wait for God to do it? Without the call, would He just remove satan anyway? The "power" if you will, is the power of prayer; the power of calling on Him, knowing without doubt (faith & trust) He will answer the call.

a movement that believes that Christians have authority over satan,

uhh, no I don't personally have any power over satan. But as part of God's family, whatever power He has is available; just a call away; if I abide in Him (His word).

I've heard James 4:7 quoted quite a lot, but some people tend to forget the "submit yourselves to God" part, and completely ignore verse 8.

Jam 4:7  Therefore submit yourselves to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jam 4:8  Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, sinners; and purify your hearts, double-minded ones.

And of course, Ephesians gives us the "armour", but it also tells us to be strong in the Lord, and in the power of His might:

Eph 6:10  Finally, my brothers, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.
Eph 6:11  Put on the whole armor of God so that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12  For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the world's rulers, of the darkness of this age, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13  Therefore take to yourselves the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

satan bashing and rebuking I witnessed - to no avail.

Ahhh, yes well; I don't believe much in the showy "deliverance" ministries. What did Jesus say? Simply "get thee behind me Satan"; what did Michael say when wrestling hand-to-hand with Satan? "The Lord rebuke you". Even the archangel needed the power of God.

I have come to realise that it is God's grace in my life that enables me, not anything I can do out of the flesh  

Yes, I agree; without Him what would we be? But even in His grace we are required to take action (in other words, to call on Him).

Gracey

[MalkyEL]

Gracey,

I agree that calling on God is necessary - I think that when someone is in fear or facing a demonic experience, that when a person is solid in their relationship, calling out to God is as natural as breathing.  

I sort of bulk at the phrase "power of prayer".  Again, it is probably my oversensitive view on demanding things from God.  I don't really see prayer as a way to make God do things, but more of a way of communicating to Him our deepest hurts and needs and thereby expressing our need for Him in our lives and in the lives of those we are praying for.  It is an act of submission and of obedience, as He has instructed that we pray.

I agree that we are strong in the Lord, and empowered by His might - but again, it is in His strength - to withstand - in otherwords, we don't do anything that He does not supply us, but stand because we know that He is in control.  That is pure trust and faith in His abilities, not ours. I think we are saying the same thing, really, just in a different way.

I am curious as to the "wrestling hand-to-hand with Satan" [Jude 1] - I always understood it to mean they were arguing over Moses' body, not in active combat.

Shalom, MalkyEL

[Gracey]

I am curious as to the "wrestling hand-to-hand with Satan" [Jude 1] - I always understood it to mean they were arguing over Moses' body, not in active combat.

Yes, they were wrestling over Moses' body; I guess I would call that hand-to-hand combat, but I suppose I should have said face-to-face.

I don't really see prayer as a way to make God do things, but more of a way of communicating to Him our deepest hurts and needs and thereby expressing our need for Him in our lives and in the lives of those we are praying for.

I don't see prayer as a way to make God do things either, but we pray for and in God's will (thy will be done). Yes, it is a way of communication; of praise and worship, but it is more than that.

I sort of bulk at the phrase "power of prayer".

Well, I don't know what to say to that. There is power in prayer, whether you want to call it that or not. Many of my prayers are nothing more than "conversation" with God; speaking to Him as I go through my day; thanking Him; praising Him; worshipping Him. Prayers of "petition" are few, except of course when I am praying for the needs of others (intercession). God meets my needs daily; all of them. What he doesn't always do, is meet my "greed". He does know the desires of our heart; sometimes, we are even blessed with those. There are many kinds of prayer and many ways to pray, but when we call upon God, there is His power.

When the disciples could not remove the demons from the child, they asked Jesus why,  and he replied:

Mar 9:29  And He said to them, This kind can come out by nothing except by prayer and fasting.

The bible also says we should ask in prayer:

Mat 21:21  Jesus answered and said to them, Truly I say to you, If you have faith and do not doubt, you shall not only do this miracle of the fig tree, but also; if you shall say to this mountain, Be moved and be thrown into the sea; it shall be done.
Mat 21:22  And all things, whatever you shall ask in prayer, believing, you shall receive.

Phi 4:6  Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God. Phi 4:7  And the peace of God which passes all understanding shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Jam 5:15  And the prayer of faith will cure the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up. And if he has committed sins, it will be forgiven him.
Jam 5:16  Confess faults to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous one avails much.

Elijah's prayer (what God told him to pray for) shows a certain power (no, not Elijah's power, but God's):

Jam 5:17  Elijah was a man of like passion as we are. And he prayed earnestly that it might not rain, and it did not rain on the earth for the time of three years and six months.
Jam 5:18  And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth caused its fruit to sprout.

This shows the power of prayer:

Mat 26:53  Do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He shall presently give Me more than twelve legions of angels?

We are told to pray, to ask:

Joh 14:12  Truly, truly, I say to you, He who believes on Me, the works that I do he shall do also, and greater works than these he shall do, because I go to My Father.
Joh 14:13  And whatever you may ask in My name, that I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14  If you ask anything in My name, I will do it.
Joh 14:15  If you love Me, keep My commandments.
Joh 14:16  And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, so that He may be with you forever,
Joh 14:17  the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive because it does not see Him nor know Him. But you know Him, for He dwells with you and shall be in you.

And although there is much more in the bible about prayer, Jesus also taught that it is always right to pray:

Luk 18:1  And He also spoke a parable to them to teach it is always right to pray, and not to faint,

So, maybe the problem here is the definition of "power", because for the most part I think we have similar views.

How did we get on this subject? I thought this was about ghosts?  

Peace
Gracey

[MalkyEL]

Gracey,

We sporta did get off topic - of course this thread definitely needs prayer support  !

I think we are pretty much on the same page with prayer, thanx for sharing your views and the scripture.

I did a word study on Jude 1:9 because of your perception - it was a new on me  

"Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee".

contending  Strong's 1252  diakrino means to make a distinction, judge, decide. to oppose

disputed   Strong's  1256  dialgomai  means to ponder, resolve, argue, discuss

I am not so sure there was hand-to-hand combat, but rather a "discussion" over Moses' body.  Micha'el obviously knew better than to rebuke satan and refused to accuse him, calling on God to do so [so much for satan bashing  ]

Shalom, MalkyEL  

[Gracey]

I am not so sure there was hand-to-hand combat, but rather a "discussion" over Moses' body.

Yes, that is entirely possible. It really is just my own perception; I guess in my mind I always pictured Michael on one side and satan on the other with Moses' body between...sort of like a tug of war! But I agree, it more likely was an argument or discussion. Thanks....I never really thought about it that hard before  

Micha'el obviously knew better than to rebuke satan and refused to accuse him, calling on God to do so [so much for satan bashing  ]

Yup; I remember the first time that particular light bulb came on in my mind.....and became astounded at all those "deliverance" fallacies and sham artists!

Cheers!
Gracey

[MalkyEL]

Yup; I remember the first time that particular light bulb came on in my mind.....and became astounded at all those "deliverance" fallacies and sham artists!

Yeah, I was sortta caught up in all that at one time - I cringe at all that stuff now - zero fear of God and extreme presumption which is just a disguise for P R I D E  

Shalom, MalkyEL  

[JudgeNot]

Ah – finally a little while to relay another “brush with the demonic”.  

In 1996 I was on one of my annual sojourns to Alaska.  My brother has a cabin cruiser we take out of Homer into Kachemak Bay and on into Lower Cook Inlet with the goal of stocking up the freezer with halibut.  On this particular trip we decided to extend our cruise down around the southern tip of the Kenai Peninsula to a little piece of water named Chrome Bay, located just around Cape Elizabeth near the entrance to Port Chatham.
We had often heard “tales” of an abandoned village (Chugachmiut Indians) on the southern tip of the peninsula.  The reason for abandonment by the natives is largely speculation.  The area is teaming with game and good fishing, the water is ice-free and because of proximity to the open the gulf, the weather (even in winter) is fairly temperate.  According to folklore, they left because they were “chased away” by either spirits or by Sasquatch.  
Searching USGS maps we discovered the small notation ‘ruins’ on the north side of Chrome Bay, so we thought it would make an interesting side trip to break the monotony of long days on the boat, plus Chrome Bay is an excellent sheltered anchorage.
We pulled into Chrome Bay fairly late in the afternoon.  The bay was like glass and the afternoon warm and sunny.  My brother and a friend who was along with us unloaded the canoe and headed for the beach to build a driftwood fire so we could enjoy some of the day’s catch, and I stayed aboard to clean up the boat and make room in the sleeping quarters for actual sleeping.  I had just returned topside as they shoved the canoe off for their return to the boat, when the quiet was pierced by what sounded like a pack of wolves howling from the opposite shore from where the smoky driftwood fire was just taking off.  I turned my focus to that shore – wolves, though plentiful are rarely spotted.  While I could hear them, and it sounded as if they were right on the beach I could see nothing except empty sand stretching to the edge of dark spruce forest.  Then as I stood searching, the wolves’ howling turned into what sounded like the cry of many eagles coming from the tops of the trees.  This quickly turned into what sounded like thousands of gulls screaming over the water.  The screaming sound came directly across the bay and over the boat – echoing off every rock – extremely loud; but nothing was there – not a bird in the sky or beast on the shore.  After passing over the bay the sound disappeared into the forest at the west end of the bay.  Again the day was quiet.  
When my brother and friend boarded we discussed it and agreed we all heard the same thing.  We were all more than a little ‘unnerved’ by the experience.  
We also knew why, if there had been a native village in the vicinity, they left!  When ever I think back on the experience the thing that comes to mind is “screaming demons” – nothing else describes it.  (By the way, we spent the night in the bay with no other encounters, but left early the next morning with out searching for the ruins – we decided fishing was more important!)
As a Christian, I will never return to Chrome Bay – it is an astoundingly beautiful piece of real estate, but as far as I’m concerned is a haven for something very evil.  

[archangel]

 Have you ever seen a ghost? Do you even believe in them?
 What are they?

 I believe they are demons, and I have been visited on a few occasions.

 The first time was when I was about 9 years old. My grandfather, who lived with us had just died. He, and I were very close. He had a strong Yorkshire England accent which I loved. He introduced me to my lifetime love of hockey and specifically the Toronto Maple Leafs... I was born in Toronto.

 My mom forced me to approach the open casket, and touch grandpas hand to say a final goodbye, as was the English way. I wanted nothing to do with that, but she insisted. As soon as I felt that cold, solid hand, I busted out sobbing.

My brother-in-law took pity, and invited me to spend the night at their house, so he could take me fishing the next day.

 It was an old home which was renovated. I slept in the spare room and was kept awake by thoughts of the trauma I had went through, and my brother-in-law's record breaking snoring!

 At some point, early in the morning, around 2:00am, I got an instant feeling of unexplained fear, and a sense of an evil presence. Suddenly, the wooden screen door downstairs at the front of the house began to open and slam shut. It was a calm, summer evening and yet the door sounded as though someone was opening it, and two handed slamming it shut with all they had, I mean it was thunderous.

 This went on for about an hour. It was terrifying. My brother-in-law snored through the entire episode. I later learned that my sister lay frozen with fear in her bed. She dared not even budge to wake up Joe.

The house was semi-detached, and when we arrived home from fishing that evening my sister told us the neighbors heard it , and they were scared stiff in their beds also.

 When I returned home that night, I went to bed still a bit freaked out by the thought of what had happened. While I lay in my bed I began to hear a noise at the foot of my bed. It sounded as though a cat was trying to get out of a plastic garbage bag. It was a continuous rustling sound, and it was loud.

 I was frozen stiff. The noise stopped a few hours after it began. I was too embarrassed the next morning to tell my parents, but it continued for several months, every night.

Each morning, I would search my floor, and under my bed for anything that could explain what was causing the noise, but I never found anything.

Finally, after being terrified for all those months, I found myself getting angry one night. I sprung out of bed in a fit of anger and turned the light on. The noise stopped the instant light filled the room, and it never happened again.

 I believe there were demons at work feeding off of my fear. The moment I fought back, they lost their grip on me and fled.

Anyone else? I will relate other visits, which were far more intense if anyone is interested.

Bronzesnake.

I can honestly say that I've never seen a ghost, but I think I have known a few demons in my time. The really spooky thing is that when I sat down to do my morning bible study today I suddenly found myself writing about dealing with fear, which had nothing to do with what I was studying.  Next thing I know I have this overwhelming impulse to post my notions to this forum hence the thread ...What are you afraid of?  Now I come back to the forum this afternoon and there is this thread on re: ghosts.  I have to wonder if my post was inspired by someone on higher ground.

[Jesusinme]

7 years before I was saved, I had quite an experience. I had  been having horrible nightmares for about a week. I had 2 that stand out in my mind. In one my brother was hanging  by a rope around the neck in the corner of my room. The other one I was walking around with a shovel digging for Jesus. (Please be advised that I knew very little about The Lord at the time) Then, I had just laid  down to go to sleep on this particular night, In my minds eye I saw a demon sitting cross legged on my dresser leering at me with hate  then quick as a flash he  came within inches of my face. I remember he had deep wrinkles, and yellow eyes. I jumped up so fast  and ran from that room and I refused to sleep in there again!  Years later  I saw that same face on a billboard advertising a horror movie! I was horrofied allright. I believe that demons give inspiration  to the ungodly in  movies and in music.  I am so Glad that I finally found Jesus!

[Gracey]

I am so Glad that I finally found Jesus!

Amen!