What Happened?

[Reba]

occupyTo seize possession of and maintain control over by or as if by conquest.

Satellite is cheaper and much cleaner than cable. There's also a massive Christian network headed West from the East Coast. It is getting rave reviews and should eventually give Christians all over the country a chance to sign up and completely turn off the big boys with all of the money and dirt.

Luk 19:12,13  He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.  And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

[C C]

   Can we advertise for them here?  Just joking around.

What I would like to see are the genius Christians of the world, the accountants, the business people, the computer programmers the television experts ALL decide to give up all that they have to follow the Lord.  They could all agree to work at some wage that would give the organization such the advantage that we could have the media industry ALL OF IT.    But of course, the Christians of our country seem to have bought into the idea that if you have lots of money, God must be blessing you.  And if you have lots of stuff, you must be doing the will of the Lord.  As a nation we've all bought into this idea that says "wealth = God's blessing"   So, then no body gives up all that they have to follow the Lord, and actually it's people follow the Lord to get more stuff.  So, we're all trying to get more stuff so we can't get united.  It's because we've been watching too much tv where TV worships the almighty dollar and holds in high esteem that folks that managed to hog up most of it for themselves.  Those are the folks we admire in our country.  We look down on folks that give up what they have to follow the Lord, because we hold in high value this idea that "wealth equals God's blessing"    And if you give up all that you have to follow the Lord, folks automatically think you must be doing something wrong!    

[Heidi]

I couldn't agree with you more, Candice. Sometimes I feel like joining the Amish community but I don't subscribe to a lot of their beliefs. But i do like their being in the wolrd but not of the world.

[C C]

Naw.  The Amish are much too old fashioned for me, but to each his own.    I don't mind the changing of the world.  What I think is an actual problem is that in our country we value so much folks that are sitting on a million dollars.  If you sit on a million dollars the whole country thinks you're lucky.  Not that many folks thinks, "Oh my gosh!!  You have a million dollars and there's extra corn and there's starving people!!   Maybe we should use this extra money to buy that extra corn and ship it over to those starving people!!"  I don't see a whole lot of people think like that.  Many people think it's sooo important to hold up signs at abortion clinics and I keep seeing and hearing about folks that rent signs about homosexuality being a sin, but nobody rents a sign that says, "You have all that extra and there's starving folks in the world--THAT's SIN!"  AT least I haven't seen any.  Because only in America if you have extra we think that you're doing something right and God is blessing you--we don't bother trying to hold the folks with extra accountable to feed the people that are starving to death.  We hold non-Christians accountable for every sin under the sun, but we let Christians sit around on millions and we don't mind it at all.  And I don't see much of people voicing anything about having extra and not seeing their neighbor starving to death -- I haven't seen any sign of people with qualms about having extra and not feeding our neighbor.  I see plenty of people all concerned about gays and abortions.  I don't see anyone spending any moments holding even wealthy Christians responsible for feeding the millions of lazurous of the world.
(c) 2002 James N. Watkins  "It is tragic that 3,600 unborn babies are aborted every day in this land of freedom. That’s a million each year. But did you know that 24,000 people worldwide die every day from starvation and malnutrition? That’s over 8 million each year. Three of four who die are younger than five years old."

I see people make a big deal about abortion and gay people, and I don't see people minding that folks are sitting on money while folks are starving.  And we hail and worship folks that have money and we don't mind that they aren't feeding the poor even when they call themselves Christians.

So, the WORLD thinks we're hypocrits.  We choke on a comel and we swallow a nat.  
You know, JESUS did not tell parables about gay people and abortions.   But Jesus' did tell a story about the rich man and a starving man.  I don't SEE we're all that concerned about Jesus and what he had to say.  I begin to think we need to point out sinners so we can feel like saints.  Either that or our priorities are not right.  There's just something wrong.  

AND THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED!

Peace

[nChrist]

Candice Cavalier Said:

We make a big deal about abortion and gay people, and we don't mind that folks are starving.  And we hail and worship folks that have money and we don't mind that they aren't feeding the poor even when they call themselves Christians.

Oklahoma Howdy to Candice Cavalier,

Who is this we you keep talking about?    An old saying would add, "Do you have a mouse in your pocket?" - Thus, qualifying the "WE".

I guess that all of us would be rich according to some third world standards, but I don't know many of those rich Christians you are talking about, and I completely reject the "Wealth Gospels" that some of the TV preachers spout.

Most of the Christians I know would be considered to be poor or lower middle class by America's standards, but they collectively manage to send food, medicine, clothes, and missionaries all over the world. I do know of several fairly rich Christians who give large amounts.

I understand that America does more than any other country in the world to help the poor and needy. Did that change? Even my little small and relatively poor church sends supplies and supports missionaries all over the world. I really don't know many rich people, and most of the normal or poor folks I know give about as generously as they can while they are trying to survive.

Candice, what category do you place yourself in? I really doubt that many of the folks here are rich. Do you want to trade computers with me, sight unseen?  

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Heidi]

I agree with both you and Candice, BEP. But I do think that there are many Christians in the world who are more ruled by greed than we should be. We are of course human beings and are called to look at the plank in our own eyes everyday.

[nChrist]

I agree with both you and Candice, BEP. But I do think that there are many Christians in the world who are more ruled by greed than we should be. We are of course human beings and are called to look at the plank in our own eyes everyday.

OKlahoma Howdy to Heidi & Candice,

I'm sure that there are some rich, stingy, and greedy Christians. I was just considering my circle of friends who would probably be considered to be "have nots". I doubt many of them have a clue what it would be like to be rich. I meant no offense, rather some humor about all of those rich folks I don't know.

I was just considering the humor that someone might think I was rich.    There are overwhelming needs and evils at every turn. My post was intended to be good natured. I honestly think there are a large number of Christians who strive to run a good race. Looking at the world and becoming depressed that everything was done in vain should not be done. Instead, I think that Christians should wonder what would happen if nobody was trying to run a good race. Hopefully, the Christian will get back up after each disappointment and finish their race. I know a lot of Christians with very little wealth that run pretty good races.

Love In Christ,
Tom  

[ollie]

Many of the commercials are unGodly in themselves along with the programs they sponser. They promote greed, selfishness, selfcenteredness, sexual promiscuity, etc., etc..

Ollie

Such is life on Lucifer's world.    At least the Lord gives us "armor" against it.  

I worry so much for the kids.  

[C C]

   Sorry, guys.  I'm just being grumpy today.  I forget to be happy for all the wonderful things that are being done and I focus on all the negative things.  Right now I wish I knew of a single person who was very wealthy and gave up all of his wealth to the Lord.  Or I wish that  . . .

Here's the deal.  I'm obsessing because someone is giving away a mansion.  Or raffling it off to raise money to do stuff that's not feeding the poor.  I'm becoming increasingly more obsessed that it doesn't occur to him to feed the poor.  If more Christians were focused on the poor then maybe it would occur to him to shift gears.  No, were all focused on other stuff.  Oh, well maybe the Lord will give me the nerve to say something.

[JudgeNot]

Sorry, guys.  I'm just being grumpy today.  I forget to be happy for all the wonderful things that are being done and I focus on all the negative things.  Right now I wish I knew of a single person who was very wealthy and gave up all of his wealth to the Lord.  Or I wish that  . . .

The Church I attend supports several missionaries (to Alaska, Africa, Peru and other locals) who have done just that:  Liquidated everything to serve GOD!

Praise the Lord!  It IS happening!
JN

[Sower]

I guess my biggest question is; Where and when did we let the Christian foundation go?   We had a missionary to the Phillippines speak recently and he said that America is now the 3rd largest mission field.

The Christian foundation did not crumble overnight. The history of bible scholarship since the Reformation is primarily the history of unbelief among scholars, theologians, critics, seminaries and bible schools. The history of mainline denominations since the Reformation is also the history of unbelief in the churches.

Unbelief had its origin in German scholarship of the 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries, and names such as Semler and Schleirmacher are prominent as the originators of those who undermined God's word. The virus of German unbelief infected the rest of Europe, then came across to America. All through the 19th century, with the rise of anti-biblicism, there was a battle for the Bible, which the seminaries lost. Thus unbelief entered into the mainline denominations and is now know as "theological liberalism".  This liberalism has now permeated the evangelical and fundamentalist schools through both higher and lower criticism. Today we have men like "Bishop" Spong parading as Christians but in fact "denying the Lord that bought them". Today we have homosexual being "ordained" as priests and bishops, and being applauded for their anti-biblical stance.

The central issue was the authority of God's Word, and America's religious leaders rejected it's authority. This authority was based upon the fact that because God is it's Divine Author, the Bible is not only inspired, but it is also inerrant in every part, and therefore infallible.

The Roman Catholic and Orthodox Churches have also done their part in  undermining the authority of the written Word of God for almost two millenia by claiming that "tradition" is equally authoritative to the Word of God! But since tradition comes from fallible men, many of whom were no doubt learned and pious, but also capable of being mistaken, the truths of God's Word were replaced by the dogmas of men. Therefore Mary has been elevated to the position of Co-Redemptrix!

The third aspect of the diminished authority of the Word of God was the introduction of modern bible versions.  Since 1881, when Westcott and Hort introduced their corrupt NT text and the corresponding Revised Version, there has been a steady drive towards discarding the Authorized Version and replacing it with everything from paraphrases to perversions.
Evangelical Christian leaders are largely responsible for this. But evangelical Christians are equally responsible for not seeking the truth behind the propaganda, and finding out the hidden agenda in the attack on the Authorized Version.

There was a time when all English-speaking people [including those living in British Commonwealth countries] recognized only ONE AUTHORITATIVE BIBLE -- the KJV 1611 A.D. That was "THE Bible".  Today, because of the diversity of bible versions, there are diversities of doctrine, and there are divisions among believers. The primary thrust of modern bible versions has been to diminish the authority of the KJV by casting doubt upon numerous passages of Scripture. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance (1980 or newer) is  an excellent source for comparing other translations to the KJV. Today many will argue for a different interpretation on the basis of "Well, my translation says something else". And of course the scholars -- those infallible ikons of modern Christians -- have told us that "the best manuscripts" do not contain this or that or the other Scripture, implying that Christians were misled for over 400 years!

We should never forget that apostasy in Christendom was was foretold in Scripture, and we are seeing the results of apostasy on every side. The Bible has been thrown out of schools, colleges, universities, courts, and most shockingly, seminaries, bible schools and churches. America has been deliberately "secularized" and Christians have stood by watiching. A watered-down "bible" and a watered-down "gospel" is all that can be found in many of the churches of America.  As a result, God has already begun to pour out His judgments on this nation, which once sincerely stood for "In God We Trust", but is now more pagan than many formerly pagan lands.

Because the United States of America had more light and freedom than any other country, the severer will be it's judgment, just as Israel had more light than the heathen nations, and was therefore judged more severely.  "To whom much is given, from him much shall be  required". We are seeing only the tip of the iceberg in the floods and fires and natural disasters that have plagued the USA over the last few decades. There are greater judgments to follow.

North America today is as much a mission field as South America. But the churches have not risen to the challenge and the true Gospel has been "hidden under a bushel".  However, those who know the truth and love the Lord can still be overcomers through prayer and through persistence in freely giving away God's Word and the Gospel to the lost. The mandate to "Go ye into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature" is still in force. Are we up to the challenge?

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

Candice,

I think that JudgeNot and I were almost grumpy once.    You know that I'm kidding. We all get grumpy and out of sorts, and I think that you picked a good reason to get grumpy. My niece and several others went to Guatemala as part of their Bible University to see if they really wanted to become missionaries. She came back knowing that she wants to be a missionary, but she also brought back a severe eating disorder. She had seen so many hungry people that she felt guilty eating. That took almost 1 1/2 years to get over. She just got married to another Bible student, and they are going to Guatemala with almost nothing. We desperately need young people with fire and desire to address some of the worst problems in the world: (1) Those without Jesus, (2) Those without food, clothing, shelter, medical supplies, etc. My niece now understands that she has to have health to follow her calling. Her husband is a skilled carpenter, and she is good with many crafts. Hold this picture:  their marriage ceremony was in a pasture, and they were both barefoot by choice.    The entire family will help them, but they do already have shoes.  

Sower,

AMEN BROTHER!! - I enjoyed your post.


JudgeNot,

Brother, I sincerely believe that missions should be a major work of every church. There must be an organized approach, and most of the work should be validated. By that, I mean that the church or individuals should make sure their money and supplies are being used the way they intended. Scams and con games have really hurt many genuine missions in the last years. There are now organizations that validate missions and pass the information on to churches. Several such organizations have been in that business for 50 years or more. It makes me want to do more when I know who really gets the help.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Shylynne]

Hold this picture:  their marriage ceremony was in a pasture, and they were both barefoot by choice.

 



 

[sincereheart]

I have always wondered why we send people out of America to preach and teach instead of combing the fields for harvest in our own backyard. Perhaps that is what has happened? We have concentrated on other's backyards instead of cleaning our own. The neglect is showing and the weeds are growing.

Ollie

Sad but true!  

[sincereheart]

Just a few thoughts. From a teenage point of view i think that the media has a great deal to do with it, but the person behind it is satan. I think this interview with Anne Graham (Billy Graham's Daughter) would go right well for this thread. So here it is:

In light of the many perversions and jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke, it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.

Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?" (regarding the attacks on Sept. 11).

Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said "I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?"

In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found recently) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK.

Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school ... the Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.

Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.

Then someone said teachers and principals better not discipline our children when they misbehave. The school administrators said no faculty member in this school better touch a student when they misbehave because we don't want any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued (there's a big difference between disciplining, touching, beating, smacking, humiliating, kicking, etc.). And we said OK.

Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they want, and they won't even have to tell their parents. And we said OK.

Then some wise school board member said, since boys will be boys and they're going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the condoms they want so they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school. And we said OK.

Then some of our top elected officials said it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs. Agreeing with them, we said it doesn't matter to me what anyone, including the President, does in private as long as I have a job and the economy is good.

Then someone said let's print magazines with pictures of nude women and call it wholesome, down-to-earth appreciation for the beauty of the female body. And we said OK. And then someone else took that appreciation a step further and published pictures of nude children and then further again by making them available on the Internet. And we said OK, they're entitled to free speech.

Then the entertainment industry said, let's make TV shows and movies that promote profanity, violence, and illicit sex. Let's record music that encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes. And we said it's just entertainment, it has no adverse effect, nobody takes it seriously anyway, so go right ahead.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.
Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell. Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.
Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.
Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
Are you laughing?

I think that best sums up what the deal is. These are the signs of the times and America claims to be a nation under GOD but our actions speak louder than our words. I think ollie hit a good point when he wrote about sending people out instead of sending them into our own back yard, The weeds are growing and it's gonna be a bad day in heaven when Christ seperates the wheat from the tares. I honestly believe that America started heading down hill when prayer was taken out of schools and God was thrown by the wayside. As said above, Being the gentleman He is, He's sort of stepped back, and sadly so i believe that's happened. Each generation gets worser and worser as satan has gained his foothold. I see many of my friends who go get drunk every weekend, come to school high, each class i have at least 1 pregnant person next to me, then other days we have those who come in high as a jaybird. Now if that doesn't get our elder generation's attention i don't know what does, but many christians today have turned a blind eye to what's going on. I see alot of talk, but very little action to correct this problem. Just a few thoughts and my opinion on the situation. God Bless and may He guide you in your walk.

In His Service,
Joshua

You're one of our youth who give me hope for the next generation!