Calvinism

[Shammu]

Remember  please on the political side i  believe the USA should defend the nation of Israel.

We agree there sister.

On the spiritual side: The Jewish religion fits the biblical description of antichrist;

1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23  Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Nope.....

Antichrist will be of Roman descent.

Daniel 9:26 And after the sixty-two weeks [of years] shall the Anointed One be cut off or killed and shall have nothing [and no one] belonging to [and defending] Him. And the people of the [other] prince who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood; and even to the end there shall be war, and desolations are decreed.

Daniel's prophecies regarding future empires conclude with the Roman Empire. Daniel 9:26 indicates that the beast/antichrist will be of the same nationality as those who would destroy the temple in Jerusalem.  However, I'm relatively confident that if you were to have asked John what his revelation meant at the time, he would certainly have told you that this corrupt religious system that will dominate the world at the second coming of Christ will be based in Rome.

Revelation 13:11-18 Then I saw another beast rising up out of the land [itself]; he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke (roared) like a dragon. 12 He exerts all the power and right of control of the former beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell upon it to exalt and deify the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed, and to worship him. 13 He performs great signs (startling miracles), even making fire fall from the sky to the earth in men's sight. 14 And because of the signs (miracles) which he is allowed to perform in the presence of the [first] beast, he deceives those who inhabit the earth, commanding them to erect a statue (an image) in the likeness of the beast who was wounded by the [small] sword and still lived. 15 And he is permitted [also] to impart the breath of life into the beast's image, so that the statue of the beast could actually talk and cause to be put to death those who would not bow down and worship the image of the beast. 16 Also he compels all [alike], both small and great, both the rich and the poor, both free and slave, to be marked with an inscription [stamped] on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 So that no one will have power to buy or sell unless he bears the stamp (mark, inscription), [that is] the name of the beast or the number of his name.18 Here is [room for] discernment [a call for the wisdom of interpretation]. Let anyone who has intelligence (penetration and insight enough) calculate the number of the beast, for it is a human number [the number of a certain man]; his number is 666.

You will find in verses 11-18 the false prophet. He's the religious leader and public relations guy who makes the people worship the first beast, aka antichrist. He's successful in deceiving the unbelieving world because he exercises some supernatural powers (from Satan) in support of the first beast; he also has an image of the first beast erected for worship purposes and makes it appear alive. This second beast controls commerce by marking people who will worship the first beast on their hand or forehead. Without the mark, tribulation inhabitants won't be able to do business. Here's that infamous "666" we hear so much about..

[Soldier4Christ]

Think on this a minute, Reba before you answer. Why are Christians God's chosen people?

Because the Word says so:

Eph 1:4  According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5  Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Now that didn't take a whole lot of thinking.

Let's take this a little further. Israel became prideful as God's "chosen people". They thought that they could do no wrong because they were after all God's chosen people. Being God's chosen people meant to them that no matter what they said or did they would continue as such. After all God made His promises to them. When Jesus came to them and told them that they were in fact wrong in many things and that He was/is the Messiah, they chose to disbelieve Him. (Rom 11:20) It was this choice to disbelieve that got them cut off at the roots. (John 5:39-47) To make them jealous and to attempt to open their eyes He turned to the Gentiles. When He did He also told the Gentiles not to boast of their being the "chosen ones" for those branches could just as easily be broken off and this is the reason that most Christians do not even mention anything about being chosen. Back to the Israelites, this does not mean that God has ignored the Israelites for He did make a promise to them and He has said that they will indeed return to Him and all that go up against them will fail, facing His wrath. Romans 11 clearly tells us of this. God has not cast away His people.

As can be clearly seen here, it is about mankind making choices between good and evil. Making a choice between good and evil is not a works. It is a thought that comes from the heart. As the Bible puts it we are to "choose you this day whom ye will serve". It is not about God being terrible or horrible to mankind by predetermining who will or who will not choose Him. It is about mankind making a choice and it is not a select few that He as given this power to choose but to all. God desires those that willing come to Him and worship Him in truth and in spirit, not robots that were preprogrammed to accept Him. (John 4:23)

God has warned all mankind what would happen to them if they chose to reject Him, they would face eternal torment. It is their choice that leads to their own destruction.

[nChrist]

Reba Said:

We agree      But i see Israel as the Church.

Sister Reba,

This might explain why you're so confused on this issue. Israel is NOT the Church. Every single member of the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST are SAVED. Needless to say, the Anti-Christ is NOT saved, and this is how you've referred to Israel in previous posts. This is also a big point of confusion for you. GOD has promised to restore Israel, and HE will. However, GOD won't be doing anything for the Anti-Christ except ending his career. This might also explain your confusion about all Bible Prophecy being  fulfilled in 70 A.D. I posted an article for you under "Prophecy - Current Events" called "Has Bible Prophecy Been Fulfilled?" This might help you with part of the confusion, but distinguishing between Israel and the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST will be an absolute necessity first. You certainly don't have to take my word for this. Five minutes with just about any Bible Dictionary should make this completely clear.

Love In Christ,
Tom

   

[daniel1212av]

 if Calvinism is correct as i understand it, then man is effectively damned because he was born with an Adamic nature as that is what makes him a sinner by nature, spiritually dead, and who cannot seek and gain acceptance with God.  I am seeking to reconcile that with the Bible's criteria for guilt, in which i do not see man ultimately  condemned for something that was not his personal fault.  Thus it would seem that all men and women must be in some mysterious way personally guilty of Adam's transgression if they are to condemned ultimately due to his fall.

It seems that most everyone here is a Arminian, and i certainly lean that way, and if so Calvinism must conclude i was s predistinated to be that way. But as yet i have not seen an answer from a Calvinist to my original query (above).

As for replacement theology, Rm 11 makes it clear to me that the "natural branches" - Israel after the flesh (what's left of them)- will yet be turned to the Lord, as He reverses the curse of blindness places upon them for their hardness of heart.  http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/israel-chosenorforgotten.html
 

[Soldier4Christ]

It seems that most everyone here is a Arminian

Nope, just Christians. 1Cor 1:12,13   

[Reba]

Sister Reba,

This might explain why you're so confused on this issue. Israel is NOT the Church. Every single member of the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST are SAVED. Needless to say, the Anti-Christ is NOT saved, and this is how you've referred to Israel in previous posts. This is also a big point of confusion for you. GOD has promised to restore Israel, and HE will. However, GOD won't be doing anything for the Anti-Christ except ending his career. This might also explain your confusion about all Bible Prophecy being  fulfilled in 70 A.D. I posted an article for you under "Prophecy - Current Events" called "Has Bible Prophecy Been Fulfilled?" This might help you with part of the confusion, but distinguishing between Israel and the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST will be an absolute necessity first. You certainly don't have to take my word for this. Five minutes with just about any Bible Dictionary should make this completely clear.

Love In Christ,
Tom

   

Needless to say, the Anti-Christ is NOT saved, and this is how you've referred to Israel in previous posts.

I said the Jewish religion fits the biblical description of antichrist.

On the spiritual side: The Jewish religion fits the biblical description of antichrist;

1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23  Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Does the Jewish religion deny Jesus is the Christ?

This is off the topic of this thread. To be respectfull of the thread i will not continue off topic...

[David_james]

Reba, those two verses describes everyone who reject Jesus, not just Jews.

[Shammu]

I said the Jewish religion fits the biblical description of antichrist.

Does the Jewish religion deny Jesus is the Christ?

Nope try again, the Messianic Jews DO BELIEVE that Jesus Christ is the Messiah.

[nChrist]

Reba Said:

On the spiritual side: The Jewish religion fits the biblical description of antichrist;

1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23  Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.

Sister Reba,

I've seen you quote the same Scriptures over and over again for years It's these same Scriptures and several dealing with land, and they've given you tunnel-vision. One doesn't understand the Bible by isolating a few Scriptures and quoting them out of context. It's far past time for you to do some Bible Study, and you will be terribly confused until you do.

You need to start with the basics:  Israel as opposed to the CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST. It really doesn't matter how you see things, rather how the Holy Bible clearly states things. Others have mistakenly tried to do it for you for years, and this is something you will simply have to do for yourself. You won't have a beginning understanding until you do.

Love In Christ,
Tom

   

[daniel1212av]

Though the Jewish religion is anti-Christ (not the), this is not basis for replacement theology (Israel=church), as God never chose them due to any virtue they had, nor is His very evident promise of restoration based upon such, rather GFor this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."  (Rom 11:27 - 29).  "They" refers to the natural branches, upon whom  "blindness in part is happened" "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:" (Rm. 11:25, 26). To God be the glory.

[nChrist]

Though the Jewish religion is anti-Christ (not the), this is not basis for replacement theology (Israel=church), as God never chose them due to any virtue they had, nor is His very evident promise of restoration based upon such, rather GFor this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance."  (Rom 11:27 - 29).  "They" refers to the natural branches, upon whom  "blindness in part is happened" "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:" (Rm. 11:25, 26). To God be the glory.

Amen Daniel1212av!

You are completely correct. However, I do want to point out that none of us deserve the Grace and Rescue by ALMIGHTY GOD. All of us are completely unworthy. Not one of us has any Righteousness of our own. Our only Righteousness is in JESUS CHRIST.

Sadly, I think that the topic of Israel for some people involves much more than just what the Bible states and teaches. I'm not talking about you, so please don't think this. Some people are blinded by race, ethnic, and religious hatred to the extent that they also would want to wipe Israel off the face of the map. They can't stand to hear about the Promises GOD has made to Israel. Instead, we should all simply give thanks to GOD and know that NOT ONE of us is worthy.

Love In Christ,
Tom

   

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen and amen!

[Shammu]

Add another AMEN and AMEN!!

[Allinall]

Actually, I'm a Calvinist.  And a Covenant Theologian.  *Ducks*    Actually, I'm stirring up trouble, and should probably be reprimanded...but then again, I've not slept much since Chloe Grace was born and should be graciously forgiven!     I'll post details of our new baby where it fits better.

Seriously speaking...I am more of a Calvinist than an Armenian (sorry Roger!), with one exception: I can't find a scripture that says God chose to send anyone to Hell.  It DOES say He chose some to salvation...but also that He loves the WORLD, died for the WORLD, and calls ALL men EVERYWHERE unto repentance.  Here my brothers, we have a mystery we may need to wait until eternity to understand.   

As for Covenant Theology and the idea of Israel and the Church being one in the same...nah.  Can't go there.  I'm a Dispensationalist (sorry Reba!).  There is a definite distinction between the Church and Israel regardless of the similarities of God's chosen program for reaching the world in our present age.

[Soldier4Christ]

Actually, I'm stirring up trouble, and should probably be reprimanded...

I'll believe this.

I'll post details of our new baby where it fits better.

Congratulations, brother, I look forward to hearing more about Chloe.