Some Say Rome Doesn't Require Works for Salvation - Really?

[AVBunyan]

Straight from the Offical Source:

CANON 9:  "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."
 
CANON 12:  "If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed"

Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema

Canon 23: "lf any one saith, that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or, on the other hand, that he is able, during his whole life, to avoid all sins, even those that are venial,- except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard of the Blessed Virgin; let him be anathema."

Canon 24:  "If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."

Canon 30:  "If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema."

Canon 33:  "If any one saith, that, by the Catholic doctrine touching Justification, by this holy Synod inset forth in this present decree, the glory of God, or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ are in any way derogated from, and not rather that the truth of our faith, and the glory in fine of God and of Jesus Christ are rendered (more) illustrious; let him be anathema.

[Tibby]

When I read the title, I thought you must have had some form of epiphany. Take the question mark away from the title of this thread, and you have my answer to your thoughts. All these canon address either why Faith alone is wrong, or why Works plus faith is how it truly is. Next time, read the Canons before you post them as proof of something.

[AVBunyan]

Next time, read the Canons before you post them as proof of something.

Are you saying rome doesn't teach works as past of salvation?

[blainefabin]

i remember countless times hearing from baptists that you cannot smoke cigarettes and go to heaven... isn't this a work?

mike

[AVBunyan]

i remember countless times hearing from baptists that you cannot smoke cigarettes and go to heaven... isn't this a work?

mike

Yes, you are absolutley right - those Baptists are legalistic and don't know their Bibles and if you run into one then please send them my way and I will tell them so.  If I run into them I will ask them to not call themselves Baptist!

Thanks - have a blessed day  

[Tibby]

Next time, read the Canons before you post them as proof of something.

Are you saying rome doesn't teach works as past of salvation?

Yes, Rome does teach works along as a part. Not Work alone, as you implied.

[AVBunyan]

Next time, read the Canons before you post them as proof of something.

Are you saying rome doesn't teach works as past of salvation?

Yes, Rome does teach works along as a part. Not Work alone, as you implied.

Wasn't trying to say works alone but works and faith - but in actuallity if works play any part in one's salvation then it might was well be all works.

[Brother Love]

Straight from the Offical Source:

CANON 9:  "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."
 
CANON 12:  "If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed"

Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema

Canon 23: "lf any one saith, that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or, on the other hand, that he is able, during his whole life, to avoid all sins, even those that are venial,- except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard of the Blessed Virgin; let him be anathema."

Canon 24:  "If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."

Canon 30:  "If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema."

Canon 33:  "If any one saith, that, by the Catholic doctrine touching Justification, by this holy Synod inset forth in this present decree, the glory of God, or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ are in any way derogated from, and not rather that the truth of our faith, and the glory in fine of God and of Jesus Christ are rendered (more) illustrious; let him be anathema.

Rome "DOES" Teach Works for Salvation

Straight from the Offical Source:

Another Good Post Brother AVBunyan

Your friend and Brother

Brother Love

   <))><

[Heidi]

It's simply a fact that most churches contain false teachings but the RCC is the Holy Father of them all. Afterall, they say they're the one true church so therefore, they're taking responsibility for the views they have passed on to the Protestant churches. There are much fewer "teachings that are but rules taught by men"(Christ's words) in any church but the catholic church. They are the king of rules and regulations.

[blainefabin]

It's simply a fact that most churches contain false teachings but the RCC is the Holy Father of them all. Afterall, they say they're the one true church so therefore, they're taking responsibility for the views they have passed on to the Protestant churches. There are much fewer "teachings that are but rules taught by men"(Christ's words) in any church but the catholic church. They are the king of rules and regulations.

give it up heidi... take responsibility for your own actions and stop trying to scapegoat the catholic church.  good grief. the catholic church is responsible only for it's own beliefs whether they are right or wrong.... how they hell can they be responsible for someone who wants to believe different..? that is just plain silly. by the way, as far as rules and regs they don't base salvation on whether you smoke drink or dance like many evangelical and baptists churches do.

mike

[blainefabin]

i remember countless times hearing from baptists that you cannot smoke cigarettes and go to heaven... isn't this a work?

mike

Yes, you are absolutley right - those Baptists are legalistic and don't know their Bibles and if you run into one then please send them my way and I will tell them so.  If I run into them I will ask them to not call themselves Baptist!

Thanks - have a blessed day  

It's a problem, but so is anticatholicism. it is the idol of the baptist church, and seems to me to get even more airplay than jesus christ.

as for your initial question, yet catholic do believe that works play an essential part of our salvation.... but if you are familiar with scripture the way you say than you should already understand that. faith without works is dead...

are you familiar with how the word works is meant in the scripture? the difference between works of torah and works as the fruit of the spirit and acts of love? i find that all these are kinda lumped together by protestants, but differentiated by catholics... for instance a catholic does not believe that a work of Torah such as circumcision is of any value any more, but it does believe that baptism (sacramental grace recieved by faith based action), which is not a work of Torah, is necessary. In the end the works that catholicism speak of are all responsive, they accompany faith and make that faith real rather than intellectual assent. our works are not brownie points with god or something to exalt ourselves with especially works that are sacraments, since they are all supplied by God in the first place.

 maybe you should ask this question negativeley...like could a catholic be saved without works?

the answer is yes.

mike

[ollie]

i remember countless times hearing from baptists that you cannot smoke cigarettes and go to heaven... isn't this a work?

mike

[Heidi]

I agree with Jesus about wolves in sheep's clothing. I'm as angry about the teachings of the catholic church as Jesus was in the temple when they were using it as a den of thieves. The catholic church is passing on their own claptrap in the name of Christ. I'd much rather relate to sinners who are honest about their sins than hypocrites who follow the Pharisees and Sadducees disguised as sheep. That is pure sacriledge.

[blainefabin]

I agree with Jesus about wolves in sheep's clothing. I'm as angry about the teachings of the catholic church as Jesus was in the temple when they were using it as a den of thieves. The catholic church is passing on their own claptrap in the name of Christ. I'd much rather relate to sinners who are honest about their sins than hypocrites who follow the Pharisees and Sadducees disguised as sheep. That is pure sacriledge.

that's ok heidi... you should be angry... i was angry too until i started to truly investigate catholicism... not just accuse them but see why, how  and what they believe.. now i am angry at people like you.. mostly for lying to me and everyone else about the catholic church. i have met very few people that truly want to deal with truth but that takes a certain humility that is lacking in many people.  If there is any honest person out there reading this post.... do your own investigating. stop listening to what people tell you about catholicism, especially those that have a bias, and look into it for yourselves.. seek truth not popular opinions.

i mentioned the hypocricy of accusing catholicism of works, while evangelicals and baptists condemning christians for smoking or dringking alcohol, dancing or watching r rated movies.  i could easily add to that list, but it will do not one bit of good. you guys are experts at pointing out what you think are specks in other peoples eyes....

i took the plank out of mine.

mike