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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
282853 Posts in 27483 Topics by 3790 Members
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Author Topic: Cults  (Read 4166 times)
Heidi
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« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2004, 11:53:50 PM »

So why don't you give God the credit? or do you worship the pope more than God? Jesus gives God the credit. You again don't believe him. That is idol worship which proves my point about who is on the throne of the universe in your heart. I have rarely seen such a lack of faith in God for someone who professes to worship God and Christ as I do in you, Rich. You don't believe in your salvation or Christ's words. Again, mixed messages. You can believe that the pope is your Holy Father but he will never get you to heaven. I know who mine is and He indeed will get me to heaven! We will probably NEVER agree because we worship different fathers.
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Ben5
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« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2004, 12:09:16 AM »

I offer two explanations.  1.  Either the Bible is contradictory.  2.  The Father that Jesus speaks of is different than the father that the Apostles speak of.

Take your pick, and let me know.

Rich, Do you give God the credit for all things holy?
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Rich
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« Reply #32 on: May 05, 2004, 08:39:22 AM »

Ben5, yes i do. How about you, and Christopher, Tibby, ibea,
Nickolai, Michael?
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DovesWings
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« Reply #33 on: May 05, 2004, 09:13:07 AM »

I've stated before that I was born and raised catholic, but now I worhsip in an inter-denominational church.

Do I believe the catholic church is a cult?  Well, I have my issues w/ the church.  I still have family that is VERY involved in the catholic church...my one cousin was "mother general" of the sisters of her order.  Do I believe that she is not saved?  I don't know what's in her heart, so I can't say.  I know she loves Jesus and serves the Lord.  I think Vatican city is a joke, to tell you the truth.  Jesus lived humbly...why should the pope and all those involved live like kings?  
I don't believe the pope is infallable...I like him and all...but do I praise and worship him?  No.  
I went to a priest at a catholic church I used to attend.  I asked him why I have to call him(or the other priests) father when the Lord is our ONLY Father.  He told me I can call him pastor, reverend, or even just by name.  
I don't pray to Mary...I pray right to the Lord through Jesus and with the Holy Spirit.

As for the catholic church being a cult...well, in some people's eyes it may well be.  I don't agree w/ a LOT of the things they teach, but I do know, from going to catholic schools from pre-k through college, that I was taught to love Jesus as my Lord and Savior.  I guess I've always done the "pick and choose" thing w/ the catholic beliefs.  I never understood, even as a child, why we would pray to Mary or the other saints and not just to our Lord and Savior.  

Now...I've been to a lot of other churches in my searchings, and in some of these other denominational Christian churches, they would not have a cross or a picture of Jesus, but a picture of the pastor up over the pulpit(did NOT stay at that church).  

I guess what I'm saying is that the Church is not a building or an organization, it is all of us, as individuals, and believers, that are the Church.  
It's all in having Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, and praising and worshipping Him.
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« Reply #34 on: May 05, 2004, 09:27:28 AM »

I guess what I'm saying is that the Church is not a building or an organization, it is all of us, as individuals, and believers, that are the Church.  
It's all in having Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, and praising and worshipping Him.


Amen DovesWings!
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« Reply #35 on: May 05, 2004, 10:12:24 AM »

FWIW:

A friend and brother, Joe Myzia, sometimes teaches and often preaches. He is fond of using acronyms to explains something, and came up with this one on C.U.L.T.

It goes a long way (imo) to explaining how cults not only deviate, but how we can recognize one.

C – Conduit. Cults usually contain a charismatic communicator who claims to be the conduit between creator and creation. For example, Jones, Koresh, Joseph Smith, Charles Taze Russell. The difference between them and a church is that a church may have a high leader, but that leader never raises himself above the Bible. Examples of that would be Charles Stanley, Billy Graham or Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel. These men are highly looked up to. But they willingly acknowledge that they are subject to the Bible. Judge their teaching by the Bible (be a Berean). The cult leader (conduit) says judge the Bible by what he says.

U – Unique. Flip side of the same coin. Conduit says, “we have the message.” Here the cults say “no one else has it.” Again, Mormonism is the only true way of salvation as far as they are concerned. Again, Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, Calvary Chapels, etc., don’t claim this. They realize there are other denominations through which the Lord is working. Uniqueness simply means that "truth" exists only within their own church or denom.

L – Literature. Cults have extra literature that is on the level of or even above the Bible. Jehovah’s Witness literature claims you can study their materials for two years w/o the Bible and be in the light, but if you use the Bible w/o their literature you’ll be in the dark. Churches again, have commentaries and books, but those books are always recognized as opinion. Granted we may have a high opinion of them, but we judge them by the Bible, not vice versa (just like the conduit) If the books or writings in any way supercede the authority of Scripture (even if claiming to be based on Scripture), then it is "cultish" .

T – Theology.

Essential (orthodox) Christianity includes these 7 points:

1. Jesus was bodily resurrected.
2. Atonement is by placing faith in Jesus’ substitutionary death on the cross.
3. The Bible is the inspired Word of God.
4. Jesus is virgin born (fully human)
5. Jesus is fully God
6. Trinity –
   A) one god.
   B) three persons called God: Father, Son & H.S.
   C) 3 persons are co-equal & co-eternal.
7. Jesus is coming again to establish his kingdom.

Cults always deviate from at least one point, but usually multiple, from that list.
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« Reply #36 on: May 05, 2004, 03:21:51 PM »

There seems to be an abundance of threads dissecting the Catholic church.
Why another?
When I clicked on this thread I was hoping that it would be discussing other religions that try to pass themselves off as Christian.
Like the Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, etc.
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« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2004, 04:52:52 PM »

1. Jesus was bodily resurrected.
2. Atonement is by placing faith in Jesus’ substitutionary death on the cross.
3. The Bible is the inspired Word of God.
4. Jesus is virgin born (fully human)
5. Jesus is fully God
6. Trinity –
   A) one god.
   B) three persons called God: Father, Son & H.S.
   C) 3 persons are co-equal & co-eternal.
7. Jesus is coming again to establish his kingdom.

Hey, look, it’s the Apostle’s Creed, the Travel sized Grin
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ebia
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« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2004, 06:10:33 PM »

1. Jesus was bodily resurrected.
2. Atonement is by placing faith in Jesus’ substitutionary death on the cross.
3. The Bible is the inspired Word of God.
4. Jesus is virgin born (fully human)
5. Jesus is fully God
6. Trinity –
   A) one god.
   B) three persons called God: Father, Son & H.S.
   C) 3 persons are co-equal & co-eternal.
7. Jesus is coming again to establish his kingdom.

Hey, look, it’s the Apostle’s Creed, the Travel sized Grin
Except it's got subsitutionary atonement added  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2004, 09:55:38 PM »

There seems to be only one subject that certain(look at who started the thread) people enjoy carrying on about. Of course
certain people believe Catholics are trying to pass themselves off as Christian.  
     It would be kind of nice to see some new topics come up
though wouldn't it?
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BUTCHA
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« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2004, 10:05:42 PM »

Ben5, yes i do. How about you, and Christopher, Tibby, ibea,
Nickolai, Michael?
hey i feal left out id like to be mentioned in the same breath as these great people of the lord Grin
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BUTCHA
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« Reply #41 on: May 05, 2004, 10:17:42 PM »

"No one comes to me unless the Father draws him." I don't have the power to change anyone's mind, Buttcha. That is in God's hands. Genuine truth seekers will look at all sides of an issue. If they are being drawn by God, then the Holy Spirit, the Counselor, will lead them into all truth. Not me or the catholic church.

Paul NEVER called himself our Holy Father, NEVER. He called himself the father of the gospel which he is because he first revealed who Christ is through the Holy Spirit. But i would never call Paul 'father' just like Christ told me not to, nor would Paul want me to. If the pope is saved, then God is leading him, not he, himself. People seem to want to give the pope credt for his "goodness" instead of God. That, again, is idol worship.
no you dont have the power that is why i wounder why your trying so hard to put down the catholic religion, whats your goal just to show your smarter. i would think you would want to pray to the lord like i suggested earlier that he guide you in your quist , let him use you. im saying this to you for your sake, not to put you down. when one speaks about the bible , god , or religion, it should be for the purpose of uplifting our lord. so i ask why do you go about this cruesade in the manner you do? have you helped anyone see your point? uplifting them to the lord? i'm sure you have a lot of positive love in your heart share it with us, for we cannot see it behind your worldy ways the god do your talking.

  i do care about you i hope you see that , i hope this is not taken as a put down or anything.
    in peace butcha
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« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2004, 01:20:02 AM »

Ben5, yes i do. How about you, and Christopher, Tibby, ibea,
Nickolai, Michael?

As a matter of fact, I do.
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« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2004, 01:24:54 AM »

Ben5, yes i do. How about you, and Christopher, Tibby, ibea,
Nickolai, Michael?

As a matter of fact, I do.

So do I.
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« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2004, 01:33:47 AM »

Of course I do.
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